Jordan was a 6-6 shooting guard. Look at anyone else his height or smaller and compare the numbers. Jordan was the greatest of his time, there is no question about it. We can't say who was or is the greatest of all time because certain players have played in different decades and against different players. Wilt Chamberlin played in a league with very few centers his size. How would he fair these days? Who knows! Picking the greatest player is like picking the greatest color of all time. We all have our "greatest"
Why? Some arguments (I guess) can be made for Hakeem and maybe Shaq. Moses, though great (top 10-20 all-time) and vastly underrated, has nothing on Wilt though.
You could not stop Olajuwon, you could have all the power and size in the world (Shaq) or be just as agile( David Robinson) and Dream would still dominate you. I did not like what Wilt did when he had the ball, his moves were very lmited and all he did was dunk/layup over 6'9" centers that had a 2 inch vertical jump. Shaq is the modern day Wilt, but can do so much more with the basketball.
Wilt was actually a wizard with the basketball. Even played point guard with the Globetrotters and was a freak of nature just as much as Hakeem (maybe even moreso). Who cares about the variety of moves, they still worked and Wilt still dominated like no other. I'm sure if he had to then he would've added variety. What about Hakeem? He really only had the Dream Shake. Nearly every low post move was set up by the Dream Shake. Wilt also played against more Hall-of-Fame centers than Hakeem so he also had great competition. He also got abused more than anyone else in the history of the game and was not affected by it at all. He was a great passer, ballhandler, one of the most athletic in the history of the game while being a center, Wilt can do it all.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James:</div><div class="quote_post">You could not stop Olajuwon, you could have all the power and size in the world (Shaq) or be just as agile( David Robinson) and Dream would still dominate you. I did not like what Wilt did when he had the ball, his moves were very lmited and all he did was dunk/layup over 6'9" centers that had a 2 inch vertical jump. Shaq is the modern day Wilt, but can do so much more with the basketball.</div> Shaq is the modern day Wilt except the fact that Wolt scored more points in a game but I would rather pick Hakeem( If the same age as ShaQ) over Shaq because Shaq is alot slower which makes it harder for him to be on the defensive side
i would pick Hakeem over Wilt...Hakeem had more competition...power and agility just like the other guy said...he had a thousand moves down low...offense and defense... and aside from the centers...Hakeem also had to compete with pesky and high-flying guards and forwards who can go up there as well...
Wilt didn't have power and agility? He picked up a 6-3 225lbs. linebacker and he won a jump contest... I actually think that's better than Hakeem... Plus, on offense the only move Hakeem really had was the dream shake, everything came from that move... On defense you really can't know what Wilt did 'cause blocks weren't recorded back then...
Back to MJ not being the greatest: Well, to me he gave basketball the extra "herbs and spices" so to say. I can watch the moves made by Jordan over and over again because they are so entertaining. After all in the end if you can't entertain the crowds, you have no crowds, and if you have no crowds, you have no NBA. OK, thats a bit simplistic. but the way jordan manuvered his body to make some of his shots and plays outscores wilt on pure adjility. I will always love basketball for the sport it is and I think it is the best sport in the world (Although it is not popular in my country), but Jordan is the icon of the sport to me, and game me an inspirational character to look up to to help me push the limits in my daily life. Cheers, 17
I'd like to hear the definition of "pure" point guard. Because while I'll grant that Stockton has been more consistent for a whole lot longer than Kidd, I don't think Stockton's best year could match up to any of Kidd's last 3 years at the PG position.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bling bling bli:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd like to hear the definition of "pure" point guard. Because while I'll grant that Stockton has been more consistent for a whole lot longer than Kidd, I don't think Stockton's best year could match up to any of Kidd's last 3 years at the PG position.</div> Stockton went through a period of 8 years where he averaged AT LEAST 12 apg, peaking at 14.5 apg. During those 8 years, he also averaged at least 14.7 ppg and 2.43 spg. So far in his career, Kidd's career high in apg is 10.8.
Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest. He holds the NBA record for most points in a game and the most boards in a game. His skill level has gone unmatched. The game has changed since then, but the quality of play has improved and players have yet to approach his level of dominance.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BigMemo:</div><div class="quote_post"> His skill level has gone unmatched. The game has changed since then, but the quality of play has improved and players have yet to approach his level of dominance.</div> I take it you're joking? His skill level has gone unmatched? Pleeaasse. Wilt was 7'1" in an era when the next most imposing player(Russell) was 6'9". And the only other player close to his size(Walt Bellamy) was slow and plodding. Wilt was maybe the same skills-wise as Dream, yet he was doing it against much smaller, weaker competition. Elgin Baylor, a power forward, was 8 inches shorter. Wilt's only real competition at center was Russell and Abdul-Jabbar at the end of his career. Jordan was more dominant than Wilt because he got his points in the flow of the game and got all his team mates involved. Shaq commands just as much attention in the paint that Wilt did. If Wilt had played during the same time as these guys, he wouldn't have averaged as many points as them, let alone as many as he did in the 60's. To make that statement shows your ignorance of that era in basketball, and the nature of how the game has changed. Not to say that Wilt wasn't skilled. My comparison to Dream is an extreme compliment to him. He was very quick and fast for a big man of his day, even a big man of today. He would probably have averaged close to 30 pts per game through the 90's, and close to 15 rebounds a game as well. But because the game has changed, no one will be as statistically dominant as Wilt was, because defenders are bigger and stronger by far than in the 60's. What Wilt did was great, but even he couldn't have come close to duplicating it today. He would have been hard pressed to duplicate his numbers had he started 20 or even 15 years later than when he did.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BigMemo:</div><div class="quote_post">. The game has changed since then, but the quality of play has improved and players have yet to approach his level of dominance.</div> You make contradictory points in the same sentence. How would it be possible for someone to approach his level of dominance when the quality of play has improved?
BigMemo, I would have to agree with kobe and star, when the opposition is weak you gonna be dominant, and when the D is strong you gonna find it tougher to pull moves. This is why Jordan has to be the greatest, because not only was he the best on O ever, but he could break even with most of the best defenders on D as well. He was a leader, an insporation that lifted the other players, and despite what others say about his ball-hogging, he did involve his team around him strategecally to get the best perfomance out of the team. To put it simply, he had a burning desire to do what was needed for the win.
I wish people would read this thread from the start, because everything has already been said about 1000 times already. Let this debate go, we do have games going on now as well as a new history forum.
about jordan: he transcended the sport like no one else did. THAT is what makes him the greatest of all time. Prolly also the most clutch player ever. jordan just put the ball in the hoop when it mattered most. jordan had an intangible quality...just "something" about his game. either way, mel's first post is kinda disrespectfull "psssst pleeeeeease" wtf is that? as if the player whos been celebrated as the best ever by not only fans of the game, but bball players themselfs are all morons. have your opinion...fine...but dont talk like OBVIOUSLY your right, and anyone who thinks he is the best is just stupid ---------- <font size="1">Edited by Sandman: Learn that it is "no one" and not "noone"</font> ----------
