Seriously??? We gave up 110 points to a MIN team that was missing: Kevin Love - 25.7 PPG Kevin Martin - 19.0 PG Nicola Pekovic - 18.0 PPG We gave up a CAREER HIGH 25 points to Bricky Rubio and the night before, George Hill scorched us for a CAREER HIGH 37 points. When the opposing PG goes off for a career high two nights in a row, that's NOT good on the ball defense. BNM
Batum gets a pass in my book because he handles the ball more and creates more scoring opportunities for his teammates. C.J. is, at this point in his career, Travis Outlaw light. He ONLY creates shots for himself (AST% = 6.9). That's not necessarily a bad thing (Nate would have loved running the Roy ISO for him), but at this point, he has more career turnovers than assists. His AST/TOV ratio is 0.77. By comparison, Batum's AST/TOV ratio is 2.11 and Mo's is 2.33. BNM
What was Batum's and what was Mo's as a rookie thought? Probably better than CJ's but I am sure not near as good as they are currently. That is my point. One is a rookie. It takes time imo.
I completely disagree with you. Some nights he has provided the only production we've had off the bench.
BNM I'm not sure why you defend Mo Williams so much. The majority of posters acknowledge he has been our best bench player. He is miles better than the dreadful options last year. But that doesn't mean he is having a great year or that its a strong strength of this team. Mo is having career worst stats in many categories. He has not been a "6th starter" as some of us hoped he would be. Our other starters are all vastly superior options. It's silly for some posters to ignore his accomplishments this year but its also silly to ignore his faults.
Batum, as a rookie had a AST/TOV ratio of 1.48, and Mo's was 1.49, not quite twice C.J.'s current 0.77. In his defense, C.J.'s role is different. They tried to play him at PG in summer league, but he's really an undersized SG. Of course, Batum's role as a rookie as to stand in the corner and shoot 3's. So, his role has changed a lot, too. But, as he has become more of a playmaker, his AST/TOV has increased due to his assist totals have going up more than his TOVs. BNM
I think some of the Mo Williams hate is just a style of play thing. Even if he is more effective than the other players on the court some fans want to see an offense where the PG passes the ball when he comes up the court.
Perhaps you missed it: "Yeah, I wish Mo was better, but he's the best bench player we have..." That's why I defend him. Yeah, his production is trailing off, not uncommon for a 31-year old PG that relies on his quickness. I'm not saying he's great, but he's the best bench player we have and I want him available. I'll leave it up to Stotts to decide who gets the minutes based on who is playing well, the match-ups, who's in foul trouble, etc. But, I bet if you asked Stotts, he'd say the same thing, he'd rather have Mo Williams available tonight (and tomorrow night) than not. That's why I started this thread. It wasn't meant as a Mo Williams tribute thread. I want to know if Mo is playing tonight (and tomorrow). I, for one (well, two if you count Stotts) hope he is. BNM
Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned Mo Williams has the highest AST% on the team. Do those same fans want to see Damian Lillard pass the ball more? Personally, I don't. I want to see Dame attacking the paint and shooting with confidence from deep. Our offense doesn't rely on a John Stockton/Steve Nash traditional pass first PG. If fans want that, they need to follow another team, or invent time travel. BNM
You are probably right for many fans. Personally I do value a PG that can score though. I don't even mind if our PG is our leading scorer. I like that Mo is aggressive offensively and I love his mid range shot around the free throw line, as well as his open 3's. Its' only when he forces bad passes that I cringe. "Be quick but don't hurry"...was a Wooden saying. Mo looks like he hurries. I like that he plays fast, but if he could just not hurry some of his passes it would be better IMO.
https://twitter.com/mowilliams Apparently he is headed on his way back to Portland tonight. Will likely miss tonight game based on the time he tweeted.
1honestfan posted that same info over two hours ago. The time stamp on Mo's tweet was 2:36pm. Where is he flying in from? Depending on where he's coming from, he still may be here in time for the 7:00pm tipoff. I believe as long as he's listed on the active roster and in the scorebook, he can enter the game at anytime. So, if he doesn't make tipoff he may still be available for the second half. BNM
BNM I respect your opinion so much, but I think you're wrong this time. Mo is a ball stopper. He over dribbles. He kills offensive flow. In the three games since Mo has been out CJ has done: @ Indy - 9 points off 4-4 shooting in 12 minutes. @ Minny - 19 points off 6-12 shooting, 3 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals Vs OKC - 13 points off 4-5 shooting, 2 assists, and 2 steals (SO FAR) I don't care if Mo never comes back.
And that's the problem with a small sample size... In the second half tonight C.J. scored 2 points on 1-7 shooting and had 3 more TOVs to go with the 2 he had in the first half to give him 5 for the game. I, for one, can't wait for Mo to get back. I can't imagine how he could have possibly played worse in the second half than C.J. did tonight. I'm not hating on C.J. I'm very pleased with his play over all considering it was only his 16th NBA game, but he's not ready to be our number 1 option off the bench. The second half tonight was very clear indication he's not there yet. He played like crap in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter. Would we have won if Mo would have gotten those 4th quarter minutes tonight? It's impossible to know, but I would have liked our chances better with the veteran Mo in the game instead of the rookie C.J. I think in a year, or two C.J. will be better than Mo ever was, but he's not there get. Until then, we need Mo. BNM
I don't have to imagine hard to think of a time when Mo has played as badly, or worse, than CJ. In this last five games: 2-7 (10 points) 2-8 (4 points) 1-4 (3 points) 1-7 (2 points) 3-9 (7 points) You're talking about small sample sizes, but how many games has Mo actually put up double figures shooting? I counted. 19 games out of 49 that he's played in has he gone over double figures. That's less than 40% of the games he has played in. CJ scored 15 last night. Mo has only gotten 15 or more points five times ALL YEAR. That's only 10% of his games. CJ has done it twice in the last two games. The guy averages 24 minutes per game, and yet he is one of our most inconsistent scorers. He is shooting under 40% from the field. That's horrible. The guy is just flat out overrated as a scorer, he is extremely inefficient, and his over dribbling and poor decision making is really hurting the team. Since he went out CJ has really stepped up. He's shooting a combined 15-28 over the last three games for 53.5% from the field, and 7-13 from three for 54%. You say small sample size, but I say there's a direct connection between Mo going out and CJ playing markedly better.
No, the hate has to do with him being absolutely awful this year. He is currently ranked 62th in PER for PG's in the nba.
Sadly, Nate and BNM are BOTH right. Mo is not very good - and he is the best option on the bench. Olshey is like a RB who scored 2 TDs (Dame and Lopez) and has fumbled every other time he touched the ball.
You've singled out ONE stat - the ONE thing C.J. currently does better than Mo. I never said C.J. wasn't a better shooter than Mo. In fact, I compared him earlier in this thread to Travis Outlaw light. ALL C.J. gives us right now is the ability to create his own shot. He doesn't create for his teammates and he turns the ball over WAY too much. Of course, C.J. has a much higher BBIQ than Travis Outlaw and 16 games into his rookie season he's already the equivalent to Outlaw in his prime. So, obviously he has a MUCH higher ceiling than Travis Outlaw. But, ask yourself this: of those 5 games, how many have the Blazers won? How many did we blow a 4th quarter lead? How many assists did C.J. have? More critically, how many 4th quarter assists did he have? How many TOVs did he have? More critically, how many 4th quarter TOVs did he have? So yeah, he shoots better than Mo Williams, but does everything else worse (at this point in his young career). I don't know were to look this up, but Mike Barrett is constantly saying that Mo Williams leads the ENTIRE NBA in 4th quarter assists. We don't get that, any of that with C.J. McCollum. What we get is very, very few 4th quarter assists and multiple critical 4th quarter TOVs. I, for one, don't think it's a coincidence that we are now blowing 4th quarter leads and losing the close games we used to win. Of course, that's not all on C.J., but his poor overall 4th quarter play sure isn't helping us win those close games. I'm not down on C.J. I just recognize his limitations. Right now, he's a shooter that can create his own shot, but does little else and turns the ball over way too much - even for a rookie. I actually think C.J. and Mo can play well together on the second unit as they have complimentary skills. I'd like to see that when Mo comes back. Dorell has pretty much played his way out of the rotation and I'm fine with C.J. getting his minutes, but because there is more to playing basketball than a single skill, he is not yet an adequate replacement for Mo. BNM
