Your right he can't create his own shot but he a lot stronger him moving around picks going toward the basket.
My thoughts exactly. He's got good enough mobility, combined with his length and defensive instincts, that he probably wouldn't get burned too bad on the perimeter.
Aminu would be my first choice if he is indeed back. With Swanigan, I was thinking that Vonleh is good enough defensively that he's capable of guarding smaller and faster players when switching in the PNR. So, about half the time, Swanigan would end up switched onto a big anyway. Or simply have Vonleh guard the SF when he's paired with Swanigan. Again this would just be for limited minutes, like 6 or 8 to start the game. Defensively I like the Nurk, Vonleh, Collins trio, and they wouldn't be much worse offensively than what we're getting with Harkless starting. The reason I suggested Swanigan over Collins is Swanigan manufactures a lot of hustle points and that's something we are lacking now with our starting unit. We are flat out getting out worked by other teams at the start of games, something that's less likely to happen with Swanigan on the floor. BNM
^ I see your logic. Collins might be a "stand around and watch" guy on the perimeter in Stotts' system, even though he's a hustle player at heart.
At this point I feel the only discussion we should be having about him is what we can realistically get back in a trade. Fortunately his desire to move to NY cannot force us to move him there but his stock must have gone downhill this season and could almost turn him from a small asset he was last season to a liability. Who needs a small forward? Knicks do for sure but I fear for the return we could get from them. Courtney Lee cannot play small forward long term, and KOQ is expiring. I would still do Harkless for KOQ and then try to move someone else for a legitimate small forward.
Moe still has value because he’s young and has shown enough to justify 10m per. New York could still use a young SF and their GM has a personal relationship with Harkless so that’s still a possibility. Harkless for Lee sounds pretty fair to me.
Yeah maybe he won't be considered a liability but the return we are likely to get will be much worse than it would have been last year. Harkless for Lee doesn't really improve us and leaves a significant gap at small forward which worries me. I would try to package Harkless and Vonleh together for a small forward, Denzel Valentine is a player I like a lot and his stock at Chicago does not seem very high currently.
Would you do this as a way to get Crowder? Would CLE do it in order to get more ball-handling with Thomas injured and Rose on suicide-watch? I gotta say, I do this without blinking. I don't like Smith, but he'd be far better for our team than Turner, and saves us about $4m.
Getting rid of Vonleh is a non starter in a trade. The kid is a machine and is 22. He is our best PF by a long long ways, our best defender and our best rebounder.
I don’t want to get rid of him either, but everyone has a price. Not sure what Vonleh’s is. I will say I wouldn’t trade him for someone like Valentine, and Valentine was someone I suggested a couple months ago and is playing well for Chicago. I’d only give up Vonleh for a true difference maker.
Yeah and if someone offers him $10M which isn't unrealistic considering how few rebounders are there, and someone offers Nurkic $22M or so, we will need to add $32M while also not retaining Napier, Davis or Connaughton, taking our bill to $143M and being very short in numbers (ZERO backups in the backcourt). We've put ourselves in position where it is almost impossible to retain everyone we have because we went over the top to bring Turner here and bring back Harkless and Leonard. I think we absolutely need to trade all three for someone who earns considerably more, otherwise we will be screwed. It's crazy how we put ourselves in the corner with Turner and Leonard deals when nobody was going to offer them close to what we paid. $28M on them two, remove that and we might have even gone for Jonathon Simmons or Tyreke Evans last Summer.
It’s pretty easy when it comes to our RFA. You keep Nurkic and Vonleh. The rest can leave. Ideally we’ll be able to trade Napier before the deadline. Wade Baldwin and CJ Wilcox will be names to watch eventually.
OK but we could still get to $140M or so, for a roster that isn't competitive at the highest level. If we don't clear any of Harkless, Turner and Leonard for much cheaper alternatives I don't see how we can pay both Nurkic and Vonleh.
