You dont have to have a good fg% to be a good shooter. That's stupid. Is Shaq a good shooter? Is TP a good shooter? Having a high fg% is good, but it generally means that you get alot of easy baskets, inside. For outside players who shoot alot of 3 pointers, it's harder for them to maintain a high fg% when they are shooting alot of lower percentage shots. That doesnt mean that he is a bad shooter at all if he has a 44 fg%. Look at the best shooters..Ray Allen only shoots 45%, and he is the best shooter in the League. Chauncey Billups only shoots 42%, but that is because he takes alot of outside shots. He is still one of the best shooters in the League. Kyle Korver only shoots 43% as well. Same thing.Do you get it now?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 19 2006, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, duh. They are all young guys, so they improved on their own. If they had any other good pg they would have done the same things. They're all young except Cassell and Mobley really, and young players do improve as they mature. Mobley also brough offense help. He is a good shooter and scorer, but you never here of him. It's always Cassell. Cassell, Cassell, Cassell. He is in Sports Illustrated articles, internet articles, everywhere. For rejuvenating the Clippers. Yeah right. He helped them out because they needed a leader who could run their offense, but it wasnt just him that made them improve. He didnt turn Chris Kaman into a force underneath the glass. He didnt make him a good defensive Center, finally! It's not like he made all these guys improve as players, magically! They are young, of course they are going to improve as they get more experienced</div>Look how dumb you sound, and in the other thread your talking about how NASH makes players improve and shunning off the fact that most of them are "young" and or "entering their prime", like that matter isn't going to apply to Cassell. None of those players were really heard of (besides Brand) up until the season Sam came, not a coincidence. And how would he help Chris defensively? Seriously, his job is to run the OFFENSE, Kaman and Brand run the defense...plus Sam isn't really at all that good on defense so you can't expect him to gift someone else with it.Oh and Mo Pete sucks on defense, he's your best perimeter defender but he's not that good.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 19 2006, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First of all, i never said that it was terrible. You are just saying that he is a "good" shooter, and i am saying that its not that great. And im not really dwelling on it. When you say something back about it, I am allowed to state my opinion. AI is in a different situation than Mo Pete so that is a awful comparison.</div>Morris Peterson is a good shooter. Would you agree that Ray Allen is a great shooter? He shoots 45% from the field (44% for his career). How about Michael Redd? He shoots 45% from the field.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (His Greatness @ Jul 19 2006, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Look how dumb you sound, and in the other thread your talking about how NASH makes players improve and shunning off the fact that most of them are "young" and or "entering their prime", like that matter isn't going to apply to Cassell. None of those players were really heard of (besides Brand) up until the season Sam came, not a coincidence. And how would he help Chris defensively? Seriously, his job is to run the OFFENSE, Kaman and Brand run the defense...plus Sam isn't really at all that good on defense so you can't expect him to gift someone else with it.</div>You are a moron. I'm done with you.That was the point I was trying to make. Sam doesnt improve the players. He doesnt make Chris Kaman a good defender, he doesnt make Elton Brand a force downlow. He didnt do that much. He was just a piece to the puzzle. They really needed guards, and they got two valuable ones. Then their offense came to live, and all the young guys got better. Sam gets tons of credit, but he is not the reason that they suddenly became a great team. Maggette, Brand, Kaman, Mobley also had something to do with it. He is a poor defender too. He gets tons of publicity for making them a better team, and rejuvenating them, when really, any good pg could have came in and the same effect would have happened. They needed someone to run their offense and they got it. SI and other sources are making Cassell out to be a miracle worker, and thats the thing. He's not. He was just a piece to the puzzle of improving their team. He gets mentioned everywhere, therefor he is not overrated.If you dont get that, your just too thich I guess...You really tick me off calling me dumb and stuff when your the one who's not getting anything I say. Why even turn this into a debate? Sam Cassell gets tons of publicity for turning the Clippers around. He gets noticed, so therefor he is not overrated. Okay? Just give up, goddamn it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 19 2006, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You are a moron. I'm done with you.That was the point I was trying to make. Sam doesnt improve the players. He doesnt make Chris Kaman a good defender, he doesnt make Elton Brand a force downlow. He didnt do that much. He was just a piece to the puzzle. They really needed guards, and they got two valuable ones. Then their offense came to live, and all the young guys got better. Sam gets tons of credit, but he is not the reason that they suddenly became a great team. Maggette, Brand, Kaman, Mobley also had something to do with it. He is a poor defender too. He gets tons of publicity for making them a better team, and rejuvenating them, when really, any good pg could have came in and the same effect would have happened. They needed someone to run their offense and they got it. SI and other sources are making Cassell out to be a miracle worker, and thats the thing. He's not. He was just a piece to the puzzle of improving their team. He gets mentioned everywhere, therefor he is not overrated.If you dont get that, your just too thich I guess...You really tick me off calling me dumb and stuff when your the one who's not getting anything I say. Why even turn this into a debate? Sam Cassell gets tons of publicity for turning the Clippers around. He gets noticed, so therefor he is not overrated. Okay? Just give up, goddamn it.</div>Just like any GOOD PG could've came in and done the same work with the Suns? Seriously, your a contraction, change your name to Contradict4AllStar or something. Look at yourself, the whole post is a generalization on how "any other goodd PG could've came in and done the job", well NOONE did and Cassell took it upon himself to do it. And Sam DOES improve the players, its NOT A COINCIDENCE that Brand had a sudden BOOST of 4 PPG from staying solid at 20 and below, NOT A COINCIDENCE that Kaman FINALLY became known and recognized, NOT A COINCIDENCE that the Clippers went from 35-47 to REVERSING it to 47-35 and traveling ALL THE WAY to the Semis against the Suns WHERE MANY ARGUED they would win. And Maggette BARELY even played, nice try though. Not to mention he brought the TWolves out of the 1st Round FINALLY the year he came, ALSO how he finaly brought one of the WORST TEAMS in the Bucks to the playoffs. Seriously, get your damn facts straight before you ever try coming at me like that again
I'm not going to argue with you anymore. You're just redculous. You just argue the same things over and over again. The thing is, the Clippers didnt have a 1 or a 2. If they got any other adequate edition at pg they would have done the same thing. Come on man, you should know that Brand scores most of his points on his own. He scores in the low block alot. That is now Cassell helping him with his footwork and post moves. Cassell helps, but he is not the one improving Brand. Known and recognized? What did Cassell do for Kaman? Kaman is known for rebounding, hustling, and playing defense. Sam Cassell didnt help him do that. I think you've got Sam Cassell mixed up with Jesus here. Sam Cassell is the point guard, yes. But he is not the one making these guys become better all around players.Yeah that Bucks team of Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson (both 22+ ppg guys) was just terrible! I cant believe he could do that! Also, your ignoring the fact that Cassell already gets a ton of publicity for the Clippers rejuvenation. So he is not underrated by the media at all. An underrated player is someone who hardly ever gets mentioned as a good player. Sam Cassell sure as hell gets mentioned.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 19 2006, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not going to argue with you anymore. You're just redculous. You just argue the same things over and over again. The thing is, the Clippers didnt have a 1 or a 2. If they got any other adequate edition at pg they would have done the same thing. Come on man, you should know that Brand scores most of his points on his own. He scores in the low block alot. That is now Cassell helping him with his footwork and post moves. Cassell helps, but he is not the one improving Brand. Known and recognized? What did Cassell do for Kaman? Kaman is known for rebounding, hustling, and playing defense. Sam Cassell didnt help him do that. I think you've got Sam Cassell mixed up with Jesus here. Sam Cassell is the point guard, yes. But he is not the one making these guys become better all around players.Yeah that Bucks team of Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson (both 22+ ppg guys) was just terrible! I cant believe he could do that! Also, your ignoring the fact that Cassell already gets a ton of publicity for the Clippers rejuvenation. So he is not underrated by the media at all. An underrated player is someone who hardly ever gets mentioned as a good player. Sam Cassell sure as hell gets mentioned.</div>ONCE AGAIN, a generalization, if your team does ALL OF A SUDDEN BETTER when ONE player comes into the picture, YOU KNOW he had an impact, they never had a point which is totally right which is ANOTHER REASON Cassell improved the team tremendously. As for Brand: http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAC13A.HTM...50% of the time in the Inside he is assisted, 63% of the time with Jumpshots (which he gets most of his points from) he is assisted. By his own? Uh uh. And Cassell helps but he's not improving Elton? Oxymoron again? For christ's sake, BRAND had NEVER GONE above 20 PPG in his career, he always drifted around that area between 18-20 until Cassell came and it boosted to 24. NOT A coincidence, once again. When Cassell came in, Kaman just had about a 2+ Boost on every statistic he majors in, Rebounding and Scoring, improvement? Yes. Sam is the one helping these guys offensively which they were in a HUGE hole in with, and bringing the Clippers PAST the 1st Round in 30 years is helping alot, BRINGING THEM into the PLAYOFFS for the first time in this DECADE is helping alot. Sure, the team had talent but did they have the winning mentality? Nope, he brought them to the playoffs which they hadn't had in nearly a decade and HE BROUGHT THEM to the ECF, which they ALSO HADN'T BEEN TO in over 15 years. When did he get publicity? Even if he DID (which I doubt even remembering anything of that sort), he SHOULD, he deserves the credit FOR ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING the "rejuvenation". And when you think GREAT POINT GUARD, Cassell HARDLY EVER comes to mind. This is a guy who's seen success in the playoffs in just about every season in his career. VERY underrated
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (His Greatness @ Jul 19 2006, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ONCE AGAIN, a generalization, if your team does ALL OF A SUDDEN BETTER when ONE player comes into the picture, YOU KNOW he had an impact, they never had a point which is totally right which is ANOTHER REASON Cassell improved the team tremendously. As for Brand: http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAC13A.HTM...50% of the time in the Inside he is assisted, 63% of the time with Jumpshots (which he gets most of his points from) he is assisted. By his own? Uh uh. And Cassell helps but he's not improving Elton? Oxymoron again? For christ's sake, BRAND had NEVER GONE above 20 PPG in his career, he always drifted around that area between 18-20 until Cassell came and it boosted to 24. NOT A coincidence, once again. When Cassell came in, Kaman just had about a 2+ Boost on every statistic he majors in, Rebounding and Scoring, improvement? Yes. Sam is the one helping these guys offensively which they were in a HUGE hole in with, and bringing the Clippers PAST the 1st Round in 30 years is helping alot, BRINGING THEM into the PLAYOFFS for the first time in this DECADE is helping alot. Sure, the team had talent but did they have the winning mentality? Nope, he brought them to the playoffs which they hadn't had in nearly a decade and HE BROUGHT THEM to the ECF, which they ALSO HADN'T BEEN TO in over 15 years. When did he get publicity? Even if he DID (which I doubt even remembering anything of that sort), he SHOULD, he deserves the credit FOR ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING the "rejuvenation". And when you think GREAT POINT GUARD, Cassell HARDLY EVER comes to mind. This is a guy who's seen success in the playoffs in just about every season in his career. VERY underrated</div>Since when was it one player that came into the picture? Your forgetting that Cuttino Mobley is also new to the team. They suddenly got better because before they were very weak at pg and sg. Cassell coming in at pg as doesnt make him suddenly jesus because he made the team better. Any good pg could have done the same job. They needed a pg really badly. It's not just Cassell, it's the improvement from where they were before at the guard spots.No sh*t sherlock. Of course he is assisted when he is getting his points. He's a power forward. He's not going to dribble in from the key on his own and then score. He needs someone to feed the ball into him downlow. It is still him getting the ball up over through the defenders and scoring. He is a post player, someone needs to feed him the ball downlow. That's why he is assisted. If it was a perimeter player it would be a different story. Okay yeah, he improved his ppg average because now he has a pg to feed the ball into him better. That is not meaning that Cassell makes him better. Brand is the one making the shots. He just needed a pg to feed the ball into him consistently. That could be Cassell or Andre Miller. It doesnt matter. It's not like Cassell could do it alot better then any other good pg in the league.Oh wow! A 3rd year player had a 2 ppg boost. So what? He is a young player who is getting more PT. Of course he is going to improve his scoring by 2 ppg. That's not Cassell, that is him improving as a player. Cassell doesnt help his rebounding and defense though. That is Kaman, and those are the things Kaman is best at. So that isnt Cassell making him better at the things he thrives at. You dont get it, do you? They really needed guards, so they got them. It's not like Cassell is doing anything off the charts. He is a huge improvement from an inexperienced, injruy prone, Shaun Livingston, so an improvement is to be expected. Any other pg could have camer in and improved the team. It's not Cassell, it's the improvement of where they were before.If you're talking about the Bucks, Sam Cassell didnt lead the team. He was the pg to the team, but they already had 2 very talented players in Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson. It's not like he led a horrible team into the playoffs like your making it out to be. He got a couple of articles in Sports Illustrated this past year, and if you go to si.com or espn, there is tons of stuff on the guy. he gets noticed. Generally, underrated players are the ones that dont get credit for what they're doing. They dont get their fare share. Cassell is getting noticed, and he is getting all the publicity he deserves. Therefor, he is not underrated.
What happened to "being done with me" and not replying any more? Once again Contradicting CB comes into play..[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='118733' date='Jul 19 2006, 11:51 AM']Since when was it one player that came into the picture? Your forgetting that Cuttino Mobley is also new to the team. They suddenly got better because before they were very weak at pg and sg. Cassell coming in at pg as doesnt make him suddenly jesus because he made the team better. Any good pg could have done the same job. They needed a pg really badly. It's not just Cassell, it's the improvement from where they were before at the guard spots.[/quote]Hahahaha, your not serious are you? Mobley has NEVER BEEN PAST the 1st round with Yao and Francis moreless Miller, Bibby and Peja, I'd SERIOUSLY EVEN DOUBT he'd make THAT MUCH OF AN IMPACT on a squad where Elton is the only one that stands out. Sam made the most impact this season on the Clippers, so dont even try arguing that it's also "Cuttino". Seriously, and your saying all this stuff because they "had no guards", THATS WHY SAM CAME IN. God, if you sucked before and missing someone on a mandatory position and someone fills it in, THERE the one making the improvement, not the "position". And Cuttino isn't SUPREMELY better than the Most Improved Player neither, those 2 are about equal. Contradiction AGAIN....if he's scoring on his own than he'd be creating for himself and doing all these postmoves for himself, getting assisted isnt. Wow, he HELPS him but he DOESNT MAKE HIM BETTER? Jeez, seems like most of everything you say is a damn oxymoron, if you help someone and they do SO MUCH BETTER, that's improving, get that through yourself before responding again. YOU ALSO seem to be forgetting that Brand has a better FG% than from last year too.. It was actually 3 PPG but until Cassell came, noone would even think of him as a top 10 center in the league, he'd just be another scrub in the L...and NO OTHER PG came did they? So you can't say that, HE'S the reason for the improvement, NOONE ELSE is given the credit for that, understand that too. He didn't need to lead the team to improve them impressively. And he DID lead a horrible team into the playoffs, THEY DIDNT EVER MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THAT WHOLE DECADE, LET ALONE the Finals in more than 15 years. He worked well with what he got and he got the earnings and now you seem to be trying to discredit him. It's not Magic, seriously, its NOT MAGIC when a player comes into the picture and the team makes the Conference finals from a No Playoff team, TWICE, One team after another. Its NOT MAGIC, it happens for a reason and Sam is the reason. And find me at least 3 articles on SI promoting Sam..I dont believe it, until you do find me some I will
Yeah, Im not even going to bother anymore. Ive got better things to do. You are so damn ignorant., You say the same things over and over again, and you dont get what I am trying to say.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 19 2006, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, Im not even going to bother anymore. Ive got better things to do. You are so damn ignorant., You say the same things over and over again, and you dont get what I am trying to say.</div> Good try at bailing yourself out...
Oh yeah, you killed me. I could continue, but it's pointless. Stop taunting me just because I dont want to debate about stupid things over and over again.
i like david west alot but he's number might drop but his impact will be bigger because they have a loaded frontcourt now and peja will take some scoring away from him but he could still have a chance to up his number
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 19 2006, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh yeah, you killed me. I could continue, but it's pointless. Stop taunting me just because I dont want to debate about stupid things over and over again.</div>Then keep going on ...I know what you thought when I first started posting here first too...a debate is a debate, you dont walk away from one if you think your the best debater on the site CB..
all three you listed are very underated they all will have really good number and all could be allstars none them are over the age of 24
Sam Cassell is a good player. He is the biggest reason why the Clippers made that turnaround this season. But most people agree with that, and that is why he is not underrated.
I get what Greatness is trying to say here, when you think of the "elite" PG's in the league you think of Kidd, Nash, Paul, Chauncey and a few others. Most of the time Cassell does not come to mind unless your talking about the Clippers or laughing about how weird he looks. While he does get some publicity I don't feel he gets enough for what he does.
