Carter is more clutch, has better defense, and a better offensive game than Kobe??? Haha...what Carter are you watching? Because the last time I saw Vince do <u>anything</u> spectacular (as far as incredible sights and last-second shots go) was the Slam Dunk contest he pretty much destroyed everyone else in. I'm not trying to bash VC, because I really like the guy...but he's nowhere near Kobe's level of play, and to get there...it'll be a hard, long road from where he's at right now.
I dont see any argument here,Kobe is argubaly the best player in the NBA right now and I dont even think VC is top 5.
I guess this isn't as bad as arguing with a Shawn Bradley fan...like I did a week ago in a chat room...this guy was saying he is overlooked, and he is one of the greatest centers to ever play the game. He was serious too... As for underrated...I'd say Manu Ginobili. He's a nice addition to the Spurs, and he's one helluva player...he showed that in the Lakers/Spurs game earlier last year when he scored 38 points (I believe it was 38) without Duncan. Sometimes it takes an injury to a star player to give someone else the opportunity to shine.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tin Duncan is the most OVERRATED player in the NBA!!! </div> I don't really listen to anyone who cannot spell something as easy as three letters but, what the hell. how in the world is Tim Duncan overrated? and why would you say that in a thread about underrated players?
I believe Elton Brand,people treat him as a good player even when he is a GREAT player.AK47,Cuttino,Randolf,Arenas,A.Jamison and Marion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess this isn't as bad as arguing with a Shawn Bradley fan...like I did a week ago in a chat room...this guy was saying he is overlooked, and he is one of the greatest centers to ever play the game. He was serious too... </div> That guy was on Crack. But it is fair to say that Bradley is underrated, since he is rated so low to start with. He changes the game when he plays, but gets blamed for the poor defense of everyone around him. He's been the whipping boy and scape goat through his whole career simply because he never lived up to his draft spot and initial contract. He is a better center than what half of the teams out there have. That means he's toward the bottom of the top 20 centers in the league. But the typical opinion out there is that he's the worst player in the NBA. So he's underrated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Carter is more clutch, has better defense, and a better offensive game than Kobe??? Haha...what Carter are you watching? Because the last time I saw Vince do <u>anything</u> spectacular (as far as incredible sights and last-second shots go) was the Slam Dunk contest he pretty much destroyed everyone else in. I'm not trying to bash VC, because I really like the guy...but he's nowhere near Kobe's level of play, and to get there...it'll be a hard, long road from where he's at right now.</div> I don't agree about Carter being better than Kobe, but when was the last time you saq Vince Carter or the Raptors play in general, maybe thats a better question. The Raptors had what, one natinally televised game last year? Don't say what you don't know. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting s@bz:</div><div class="quote_post">And about that Vince Carter argument you guys are having, I am going to have to jump in, Vince Carter is way over-rated. You guys are talking about him being clutch, where was that when he missed that shot agianst Philly in the ECF. Also, how come the Raptors play better when he is injured?</div> This is the stupidest excuse ever, as if players are supposed to make every single clutch shot that they take, that's just idiotic. Philly played better this year without Iverson, does it mean they're better without him? No, some people really need to check what they say. Also the Raptors went 0-9 with Carter out of the lineup this year, go figure. Also Arenas is not underatted, I'm a huge fan of his, and he's not underatted at all. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting s@bz:</div><div class="quote_post">No, he just won the 2000-2001 MVP and scoring title.</div> Since when was winning a scoring title a clutch play, that doesn't even make sense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok...I'm just going to respond to a few things here, seeing as how it seems I've missed a little bit in the last page or so. Ok, Vince Carter, is by no means, underrated. To me, he's overrated. The guys team doesn't win. He's always injured. To the one who said he's the most clutch player in the NBA, there's a guy out in LA named Kobe Bryant, you should watch some of his highlights occasionally. I guarantee he has more game winning shots than Vince Carter ever will have. Partially cause his team was always at least in position to at least have a shot at winning the game, and partially cause he's healthy 95% of the time. And you say Carter is more unselfish than Kobe. Yea, that's why Carter averages under 4 assists per game, though Kobe only averages 4.3, his last 4 seasons he's averaged 5 or more, where as Carter has never averaged 5 assists in a season. So, by saying that pass isn't in Kobe's vocab is crap, cause he's led the Lakers in assists on a consistent basis over the last few seasons. So, PASS is obviously in Kobe's vocab. I think the last thing I'll touch with Vince Carter is, he is not the best offensive player in the game today. Kobe is far better. He has the ability to create and he can hit even the most impossible shots. Plus, over the last few years, his 3 point shot is getting better. Not to mention that Kobe is also a phenomenal passer and is clutch. So, no way is Vince better than Kobe on offense or defense, as Kobe is a 2 time 1st Team All NBA Defense, and how many is Vince? Last I checked it was 0. See, it's people that say things like this that bug me. They overrate Vince, saying many things like what Kevinduncan said. Best offensive player in the game, unslefish, most clutch. No to all those. Vince Carter fans need to get out and watch someone else. You'll see that there are better offensive players in the game, you'd see that Kobe is the best clutch player in the league today, etc. Ok, my rant is done now. I just wanted to say this about Vince, cause, his name and underrated should never be in the same sentence unless it's saying how underrated he isn't. Ok, now I'm done.</div> He's always injured? He missed 9 games this season and a fair amount of those were due to the Bruce Bowen accident. Kobe missed more games than Carter this season, so did Ray Allen, Iverson, blah blah. Carter doesn't hit as many clutch shots as Kobe, doesn't get as many chances to, but to think he's not a clutch player means you need to watch some more. What people need to realize is that everyone watches the Lakers, they're on all the time, hardly any watch the Raptors in comparison. You mean for hsi career he doesn't average up to 4? But Kobe only beats him by 0.4 assists a game for their careers? It's like me saying Carter is a much better scorer than Kobe becaue for his career he averages 23.8 points to Kobe's 21.8 points, or 5.3 rebounds to Kobe's 5.00 rebounds. Who said Vince was the best offensive player in the game, no one has ever tagged that on him, they've said he's on of the better ones but I never heard that before. So are you saying Carter doesn't have the ability to create? You make it seem like it's such a distinguished thing to Kobe. I don't remember who but one of the commentators on ESPN called Carter the most impossible shot maker. Yes Kobe has improved his three point shooting, but has he ever shot 40% from three range in a season, no, I don't know if you were trying to imply he's a better outside shooter or what? Also actually he is unselfish, all season he's been called too unselfish, even the EPSN reporter who wrote an article on trading him to the Clippers said he was too unselfish, everyone from the fans, coach and media were saying he needs to take control more and not pass to lesser teammates. Nothing against you but half the people who say things about Carter don't know what their talking about, and it's obvious through some comments people make. He's not the best player in the NBA or a top 5 player, but he's not Manu Ginobili or something, and he's not one dimensional or just lives off dunking like some seem to think. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince Carter fans need to get out and watch someone else.</div> Why do people say stupid things like this, common, so every Vince Carter fan agreed with him and doesn't watch any other players
kevin duncan 21 and allstar 44 u guys are clearly clearly clearly HUGE VC jockirders, lay off the guy a little bit.... i mean, i agree that he's a great player but as far as to label him a better defender than Kobe is just ridiculous now, back to the point I have noticed that MANY of you have come to the thinking that "Vince Carter is not clutch because he missed that one shot in the ECF in 2001 and he sucks because his team won when he wasn't there...." <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And about that Vince Carter argument you guys are having, I am going to have to jump in, Vince Carter is way over-rated. You guys are talking about him being clutch, where was that when he missed that shot agianst Philly in the ECF. Also, how come the Raptors play better when he is injured? </div> ....that was ONCE. Let me explain how the media works. The year before that, the Raptors were one shot away from the playoffs and the year after, they lost 13 straight games with VC being injured for most of them (I believe 8), after that, they were out of the playoff hunt but somehow, the Raptors managed to squeeze in the playoffs with thier roster. That is the last time VC got super media attention. The flollowing two years and ever since that time he's been labeled by the media as nothing more thn a "injury player", which is somewhat true, but not entirely. The 2002-2003 season, yes, he was injured for most of the season but this past season he only missed NINE games. count that again. That is less then most of the other superstar players out there. So, yes he is a little injury prone but he is worked on his conditioning last year and it showed, because he only missed nine games. Had it not been for Bruce Bowen's cheap little foot stick-out where VC tweaked his ankle, it might have been less then nine games. Anyways....you guys have this picture painted in your head where VC isnt clutch because he missed one shot in the ECF finals...have you ever watched any RECENT raptors games? That was THREE years ago, let it go now... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Haha...what Carter are you watching? Because the last time I saw Vince do anything spectacular (as far as incredible sights and last-second shots go) was the Slam Dunk contest he pretty much destroyed everyone else in. </div> That pretty much proves that most of the people here have not watched Vince at all over the past year. I am not a biased VC fan, i know where to test the limits (e.g- comparing VC & Kobe) but that's an off the wall statement.... the last time u saw Vince do somethign incredible was the slam dunk contest? That's pretty funny cause you must have missed the incredible showdown between AI and VC in the 2001 playoffs....I agree, his years havent been as well as it was that year, but he is slowly getting back on track and averaged 20-5-5 this year, not many players did that... He is not overrated....i only believe he is underrated by the people who've never watched raptors games and have painted this picture of him that he's this super injury prone guy who cant make a fallaway shot... His clutchness is there, among top 5 in the league and i am serious. He is not better or more clutch then Kobe but he is clutch. And the reason more people don't believe Carter is clutch is due to his lack of exposure now a days....how many people actually saw or heard about that game he had against the hawks this year? He dropped 44 pts, nailed a clutch shot to send it into overtime, went higher then then rim to block a potential game winning shot with his left hand and even made the final game winner when he drove the lane in the final seconds and did a 180ish lauyp with Teho Ratliff about to swat it in the stands and got the basket plus the foul. I guarantee you if Kobe had done the same thing (and im sure he has done something similar to those performances) then it would be more exposed then when Carter had done it.... I think people should recheck the facts, he's overrated only when some of the bias VC fans make him out to be greater then he really is (i.e- more clutch and a better defender the kobe)
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He dropped 44 pts, nailed a clutch shot to send it into overtime, went higher then then rim to block a potential game winning shot with his left hand and even made the final game winner when he drove the lane in the final seconds and did a 180ish lauyp with Teho Ratliff about to swat it in the stands and got the basket plus the foul. I guarantee you if Kobe had done the same thing (and im sure he has done something similar to those performances) then it would be more exposed then when Carter had done it....</div> This is the kind of stuff I'm saying, Spawn just basically re-wrote what I was saying, realdealbneal was saying he watched the Raptors, but that is obviously unbelivalbe if he thinks the last good thing Carter did was win the dunk contest. Ask yourself, if Kobe had done what Carter did in ATL, would'nt we all know? Wouldn't we be calling it another Kobe Jordan moment, just cause they don't show the Raptors doesn't mean the Raptor players don't do anything. Look at this year, the Raptors have 0 games on ESPN, TNT, ESPN 2, ABC and only 2 on NBA TV, if you guys are going to come telling me next year that you wtached the Raptors then I'll have to wonder.
og15 you brought up a great point with Arenas not being underrated..he has way too many turnovers and his shot selection is horrible. He chooses to play Defense when he wants to and that really hurt the Wiz. Elton Brand is severly underrated..I dont know why he wasnt an Allstar last year, he should of been there instead of AK47..I think the only reason AK47 had a big year was because he was the only threat on his team, put him on a team with atleast 2 or 3 good players (Larry Hughes type players) and his numbers will go down a lot. Elton was 3rd in the league in effiecency rating and deserved that spot over any other candidate...I expect him to be there this year. Larry Hughes is underrated a little, he cant carry a team but he is a great 2nd or 3rd option. HE plays nice D and can score at will..but when all the pressure is put on him to lead a team he crumbles and his D game staggers..he is the perfect 6th man or 2nd/3rd team option.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King Syxx:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont know I think he is underated for a reason for one thing realisticaly can you really compare him to Kobe Ai and Tmac......no he is not on there level and people like Carter get a free ride for fame because they are walking highlight reels. But Pierce doesnt have the the move set the personallity or the talent to be on there level and we have to face it he has hit his prime and he really wont get better then he was before which really shows that his stats are dropping so its not like we can say well you never know he is still young but the stats and his body will just start aging and will soon enough just slow him down. The most underated player in the league would have to be Tim Duncan with all the fame Shaq and Kg get he gets left alone and gets barely noticed yea he does go in the medias eye and the players do respect him but you have to notcie that kg and shaq get more attention then Duncan and he still can be the best player in the NBA(arguably) but all while he is still doesnt get the attention that others like him do.</div> Ive hated Pierce ever since he was talking smack about MJ at the all-star game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't agree about Carter being better than Kobe, but when was the last time you saq Vince Carter or the Raptors play in general, maybe thats a better question. The Raptors had what, one natinally televised game last year? Don't say what you don't know. This is the stupidest excuse ever, as if players are supposed to make every single clutch shot that they take, that's just idiotic. Philly played better this year without Iverson, does it mean they're better without him? No, some people really need to check what they say. Also the Raptors went 0-9 with Carter out of the lineup this year, go figure. Also Arenas is not underatted, I'm a huge fan of his, and he's not underatted at all. Since when was winning a scoring title a clutch play, that doesn't even make sense. He's always injured? He missed 9 games this season and a fair amount of those were due to the Bruce Bowen accident. Kobe missed more games than Carter this season, so did Ray Allen, Iverson, blah blah. Carter doesn't hit as many clutch shots as Kobe, doesn't get as many chances to, but to think he's not a clutch player means you need to watch some more. What people need to realize is that everyone watches the Lakers, they're on all the time, hardly any watch the Raptors in comparison. You mean for hsi career he doesn't average up to 4? But Kobe only beats him by 0.4 assists a game for their careers? It's like me saying Carter is a much better scorer than Kobe becaue for his career he averages 23.8 points to Kobe's 21.8 points, or 5.3 rebounds to Kobe's 5.00 rebounds. Who said Vince was the best offensive player in the game, no one has ever tagged that on him, they've said he's on of the better ones but I never heard that before. So are you saying Carter doesn't have the ability to create? You make it seem like it's such a distinguished thing to Kobe. I don't remember who but one of the commentators on ESPN called Carter the most impossible shot maker. Yes Kobe has improved his three point shooting, but has he ever shot 40% from three range in a season, no, I don't know if you were trying to imply he's a better outside shooter or what? Also actually he is unselfish, all season he's been called too unselfish, even the EPSN reporter who wrote an article on trading him to the Clippers said he was too unselfish, everyone from the fans, coach and media were saying he needs to take control more and not pass to lesser teammates. Nothing against you but half the people who say things about Carter don't know what their talking about, and it's obvious through some comments people make. He's not the best player in the NBA or a top 5 player, but he's not Manu Ginobili or something, and he's not one dimensional or just lives off dunking like some seem to think. Why do people say stupid things like this, common, so every Vince Carter fan agreed with him and doesn't watch any other players </div> I don't know which guy it is who did this but one of the best clutch shots was the one near the end of the exhibition games and VC got it but instead of going for a game tying point he passed it and then it was passed back to him and to prove he was unselfish again he passed it to the person who hit the game winner against Cleveland..
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Ive hated Pierce ever since he was talking smack about MJ at the all-star game. </div> for real? i never heard of this, whatd he say
the whole deal about people saying Vince isn't clutch is because Vince hasn't been in the big game situations like Kobe. Vince has been a clutch player for the Raps during his career there. He has come thru a fair amount of times in the regular season. The whole premise of Vince not being clutch comes from the fact that Kobe has done alot of his clutch play during the Play-offs/Finals. People that argue points without having the knowledge to prove their point are a dime a dozen. The only knock I have against Vince is his offseason work habits. He comes to camp 'soft' and not in game shape and IMO that is the basis for alot his injuries.
I heard apparently that VC doesn't believe in weight training... whether that's true or not I don't know. i heard it from sportsnet, antonio davis said it... if it's true, then i know how he got all his injures...
IMO it would be trenton hassell, and the three gems of the clippers: brand, maggete and QRich. hassell and maggete have really come into form this season, QRich is probably going to be one of the most formidable offensive players in years to come(has to work on passing though) brand is a derserving allstar year after year.
My list would go something like 1. Elton Brand 2. Theo Ratliff 3. Carlos Arroyo & Matt Harpring Brand for reasons outlines many times already.. The guy puts up Tim Duncan-esque numbers and is just a beast in the paint. Ratliff gets NO RECOGNITION whatsoever. This guy is probably the best defensive big man in the league, Ben Wallace and TD included. Arroyo and Harpring are just held back by the fact that Utah isn't mainstream. People have gotten a taste of Arroyo in the olympics so I'm sure he won't be underrated for long, but it's a shame that up until recently people without League Pass couldnt see him, really. As for he VC debate.. The guy gets a TON of recognition from the fans. This is a guy who leads the Allstar Game in votes perennially. He's a very flashy and solid player.. But saying he is better than Kobe is too far of a stretch :/ And I am someone who does have League Pass and saw a ton of Raptors games last season..
Yeah Gilbert Arenas doesn't get enough publicity for how well he plays. Everytime he steps on the court he is a triple-double threat. And he is very athletic, and he still hasb't reached his full potential. He can still improve.
Who do you think it is? For me, it's Joe Johnson. He put up soldid numbers last year, and has finally been given a starting spot. Others to name could be Zach Randolph, although he is starting to get recognition. Thoughts? Pure
