<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Laker_fan:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't start this thing, I was just pointing out a little mistake in the fact that Ray Allen does not shoot a higher fg% than Kobe. His shoots nearly 40% from the 3 point line. Saying he is a better shooter may be wrong, what I probably meant to say was Kobe is more efficient when shooting. Kobe shoots more shots overall. You were the one who talked about overall shooting, not just three point shooting when you said this: "Ray Allen has had a much more efficient career than Kobe as far as fg%," Again, I used the wrong words. What it should have meant was that Kobe is more efficient than Allen when shooting. This is proven when you look at the career FG%, or for current comparison, this season's FG%.</div> Let me ask you something, are you more efficient shooting a layup or a 3 pointer? They play completely different types of style, you can't compare them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me ask you something, are you more efficient shooting a layup or a 3 pointer? They play completely different types of style, you can't compare them.</div> Last season, Kobe scored 10 more points than Allen by shooting a better FG%. Allen shot 49% when he wasn't shooting from the 3 point line last season and 41% when shooting from the 3 point line. 36% of Allen's shots are 3 pointers last season. If 10 shots were to be taken, it would break down like this in terms of points. 6 points would be awarded to Allen for shooting 2 point shots and 4 points would be awarded when he shoots 3 pointers, giving a total of 10 points per 10 shots. With Kobe, 18% are 3 point shots, 82% are 2 point shots. Out of 10 shots, he will gain 2 points when shooting 3's. Kobe shoots 55% when shooting 2 pointers and he gains 9 points when shooting 2's. Giving a total of 11 points from 10 shots. I'm not going to write the working out, but when you look at where the ratio of the shots of the two players shoot from and the % they shoot from the area are calculated, you will see Kobe gets 11 points per 10 shots and Allen gets 10 points per 10 shots. Kobe also get's to the line more, so the difference would go up substantially, again in Kobe's favour.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Laker_fan:</div><div class="quote_post"> Kobe shoots more shots overall. You were the one who talked about overall shooting, not just three point shooting when you said this: "Ray Allen has had a much more efficient career than Kobe as far as fg%," </div> I also said this: <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">the best thing he's had in the paint was probably Jermone James</div> For the record, I honestly was including 3pt% when I said "fg%", but I admit I should have made that more clear. Who has Ray Allen ever had on his team that can compare to Shaq?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Laker_fan:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe also get's to the line more, so the difference would go up substantially, again in Kobe's favour.</div> Another place where Ray Allen is about 5% more efficient. Look, nobody is saying that Ray Allen is better than Kobe, but he is certainly the better shooter, has more range, and is more efficient (not efficiency ranking formula, just as far as scoring). To list Ray Allen among players who shoot a lot, but doesn't get knocked for it is silly. Ray doesn't really shoot all that much, and when he does he shoots from farther out than Kobe does. If Ray Allen had the chance to play with Shaq in his prime, he could have easily shot 50%fg and 40% from three. Don't believe me? Both Steve Nash and Jason Terry shot those %s last year, and it's because they both had multiple people on their team that could score. Edit: Also, Rip Hamilton shot 49% fg and 46% 3pt (!!) this year. Tony Parker shot about 55% fg. Just proves that it helps to have good players around you, which Ray hasn't really had.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Another place where Ray Allen is about 5% more efficient.</div> Kobe gets to the line more so he actually scores more free throws in a game then Allen. Also, the numbers I showed you where Kobe scores 11 points per 10 shots and Allen scores 10 per 10 shots were from last season. If we compared all time numbers, Kobe would lead by a larger margin in terms of points per X amount of shots.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">So is Dirk, I think Nowitzki should have won it.</div> I would have no problem if Dirk won MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Laker_fan:</div><div class="quote_post">Last season, Kobe scored 10 more points than Allen by shooting a better FG%. Allen shot 49% when he wasn't shooting from the 3 point line last season and 41% when shooting from the 3 point line. 36% of Allen's shots are 3 pointers last season. If 10 shots were to be taken, it would break down like this in terms of points. 6 points would be awarded to Allen for shooting 2 point shots and 4 points would be awarded when he shoots 3 pointers, giving a total of 10 points per 10 shots. With Kobe, 18% are 3 point shots, 82% are 2 point shots. Out of 10 shots, he will gain 2 points when shooting 3's. Kobe shoots 55% when shooting 2 pointers and he gains 9 points when shooting 2's. Giving a total of 11 points from 10 shots. I'm not going to write the working out, but when you look at where the ratio of the shots of the two players shoot from and the % they shoot from the area are calculated, you will see Kobe gets 11 points per 10 shots and Allen gets 10 points per 10 shots. Kobe also get's to the line more, so the difference would go up substantially, again in Kobe's favour.</div> Did you read my original post at all? I said KOBE IS A MUCH BETTER SCORER, since he shoots more and drives to the hole more, but there's no way in hell that Kobe is a better shooter than Ray Allen. I'm not arguing that Kobe scores more, because obviously he does. Scoring and Shooting are 2 completey different things. Ray Allen is argubably one of the greatest shooters ever. He has one of the prettiest shots I have ever seen and shooting a career 3 pt percentage at 39.9% is just amazing. It's hard enough to shoot 40% for 1 year, but this guy has done it his entire career. I have no idea why Ray Allen was even brought in to compare to Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">I have no idea why Ray Allen was even brought in to compare to Kobe.</div> I agree, that's what I was trying to say in my first post (#15). It bothers me that whoever created the thread listed Ray Allen as someone who shoots a lot, but didn't list a guy like Tmac.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TopLake:</div><div class="quote_post">should we start comparing Ray Allen with Lebron or MJ?</div> Umm, we are saying Kobe is better than Ray Allen. Ray Allen is a far superior shooter than Kobe and that's it. I don't think he should even be compared to Kobe, why should he be compared to Lebron/MJ?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Umm, we are saying Kobe is better than Ray Allen. Ray Allen is a far superior shooter than Kobe and that's it. I don't think he should even be compared to Kobe, why should he be compared to Lebron/MJ?</div> Yea...i was just kidding
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Umm, we are saying Kobe is better than Ray Allen. Ray Allen is a far superior shooter than Kobe and that's it. I don't think he should even be compared to Kobe, why should he be compared to Lebron/MJ?</div> We are talking about pure shooter? yes. I agree. Allen is better. Although, Kobe has pretty nice form himself. I think one of the ugliest shots from a superstar is Jordans. I dont know. Those missle 3's he used to make were unbelievable but very ugly! lol
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting monty001:</div><div class="quote_post"><font color=""Red"">First of all there's no need to compare Ray and Kobe..two different styled players. </font>Now..we all know why Ray's fg% is lower...it's because of the amount of perimeter shots he takes. If Ray drove to the basket more often, which he can do just as well as anyone in this league, his fg% would be much higher. He can increase his scoring average more too because he'd go to the FT line more...but thats a separate argument...</div> Then we shouldn't compare Kobe to anyone cause we know he is a way more styled player than anyone in the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you saying that Kobe Bryant is a better shooter than Ray Allen? Ray Allen shoots a lot more 3's, which is why his shooting % is a tad bit lower. For his career, Ray Allen has taken 12,138 shots and 4,396 3's, which means he shoots 3 pointers 36.2% of the time. Kobe Bryant has shot 13,003 shots and 2379 of them were 3's. That is an 18.29% of the time he shoots 3's. So Ray Allen has .4% lower career FG% despite taking nearly double the 3's. Take this year for example, Ray Allen had over 100 more 3 attempts then Kobe Bryant, despite taking close to 700 less shots and he still had a better FG% than Kobe. 45.4% to 45%. Ray Allen is a career 39.9% 3 pt shooter and is one of the better shooters in the history of the game. While Kobe has only had 2 seasons over 35%(38.3 and 37.5-in his rookie year). Shooting and scoring are 2 different things. Kobe is a much better scorer than Ray Allen, but you can't possibly say that Kobe Bryant is a better shooter than Ray Allen. EDIT: I guess I was late, 2 others have already replied.</div> Kobe is the best offensive player in the league and arguably the best defensive player in terms of guarding the opponents best player. Just because Ray Allen went to the 3-point competition or broke some record doesn't make him a a great shooter. A great shooter is what I call Kyle Korver. And Ray Allen is trying so hard to break Kobe's 12 3-point field goals in a game that he is instead breaking 3-point franchise records.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting LO7:</div><div class="quote_post">Then we shouldn't compare Kobe to anyone cause we know he is a way more styled player than anyone in the game.</div> WTF??????? I have no idea what that even means. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting LO7:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is the best offensive player in the league and arguably the best defensive player in terms of guarding the opponents best player. Just because Ray Allen went to the 3-point competition or broke some record doesn't make him a a great shooter. A great shooter is what I call Kyle Korver. And Ray Allen is trying so hard to break Kobe's 12 3-point field goals in a game that he is instead breaking 3-point franchise records.</div> So being a career 39.9% 3 pt shooter doesn't make him a good shooter? So since Kobe put up 12 3's in 1 game, he's automatically the best shooter? Kobe Bryant hasn't even been within 1.4% in just 1 season from 3 pt land then Ray Allen has averaged. I can't believe I am actually arguing that Ray Allen is a better shooter than Kobe. I figured that was just common knowledge. Like I said before, Kobe is a much better scorer and was the best scorer in the game this past year since he avg the most by nearly 4 ppg. Being a great shooter and a great scorer are 2 completely different things. btw, if Ray Allen took the same amount of shots as Kobe does, then I bet he would have had multiple games with 12 3 pointers in it.(which is irrevelant to the point)
