That's correct. And not so many years ago, they considered it a religious conviction that the sun revolved around the earth. Just because it is a religious conviction doesn't mean it isn't completely stupid. Is that your point? That it would be ideal to have a separate counselor for every student, ideally matched to their particular needs? Well, sure, but don't you think that would cost a lot? barfo
I would argue that if said counselor tried to convince them that their religion is the problem and they should go gay - they would have the same kind of argument made against Ms. Keeton's qualifications. If said counselor does actually address their needs per protocol and ethical standards - it should be a non-issue, just as gay students should have no problems with Christian individuals counseling them and not trying to push dogma on them. If someone is unwilling to accept help because of an unrelated attribute of the help-giver, it's bigotry, plain and simple.
Nor does it mean it is. It was the ancient greeks, at least one of the early civilizations, that placed the earth at the center of the universe. Lots of people believed it of all faiths (or no faith). That they should be tailoring the counselling/counsellors to best suit the likely people who'd come to then in need, sure.
What's the point of this counselling anyway? And why shouldn't the person who needs counselling feel most free to talk about his or her issues?
I'm too tired to look back (and I think you've been on the same side I was on), but that's a pretty succinct way to say what I think is what is the case.
All I'm saying is there is a case to be made on the other side/POV. It seems a little prejudiced against the religious types who need counselling.
But it was only the religious who continued to believe it after it was scientifically disproven. So you are in favor of not providing services to gays because they are a minority of the population? Interesting. barfo
How is training counselors how to counsel gays in any way prejudiced against the religious types who need counseling? barfo
Who said they should? I just do not understand why someone needs to be worried about talking to a gay counselor about his issues - and I suspect that a good counselor, if there is a conflict of interests - would steer said student to someone that can help him. The issue at hand, was, and still is, that Ms. Keeton does not seem to accept the ethical standards required for the job - I would expect a good counselor to observe these standards no matter what his sexual preferences are - and if they do that - there should be no issue what-so-ever.
I would venture a bet that virulent anti-religious people would run into issues at becoming counselors anyways. So there would be adequate counselors for those of us (in the country/world) who are religious.
You still really haven't said how. You've just vaguely suggested that maybe requiring counselors to be able to serve the needs of everyone, including gays, might be prejudiced towards people who don't believe that counselors should be required to serve the needs of everyone, including gays. You're definitely free to feel that way, hazy as the feeling may be. But you certainly haven't provided any reasoning for why that would be the case.
I've been waiting for someone to give me a "real school" example whereby Ms. Keeton's personal views would necessarily prevent her from unprofessional in a counseling environment. Again, IMO, there's an automatic "assumption" being made here by ASU. Tried and convicted well before the fact.
I may not have been as upfront about it as I could have been. If Ms. Keeton views homosexuality as a cureable illness or a behavior that can be "corrected", then she's unfit to counsel. Everything that I have read has been slanted in favor of Ms. Keeton so I don't know exactly what the case against her entails, aside from one thing. It does mention that she spoke in favor of conversion therapy for homosexual clients to her fellow students. Testing shows that its ineffective and harmful to clients and it also doesn't address anything that needs "fixing" as homosexuality hasn't been seen as a mental illness since the early 70's. Basically, if she fails to accept homosexuality as a viable and nondisordered lifestyle, she cannot be a counselor under the ACA Code of Ethics. I'm not really sure how to give a specific example, but the ACA article I referenced in the other thread on the topic does present a hypothetical where a client asks for conversion therapy and the ACA created ethical counselor refuses to do it and tries to talk the client out of wanting it because it is harmful. Ultimately, if the client insists, the counselor does find a conversion therapist for the client.
I assume you mean "prevent her from being professional". The point isn't that her views are necessarily incompatible with being professional. No doubt there are many competent practicing counselors who share her religious viewpoint. The issue is what she's going to do as a counselor, and I think there is reason to worry about that: That's from the document I linked earlier in this thread, the judge's report from August/Augusta. Assuming the claim is true, it would appear that she intends to act unprofessionally. barfo
How, exactly, did they do that? Do they have a recording of the conversation? Actually, they didn't do that at all. They presented no witnesses, no testimony at the hearing. They debunked nothing. barfo
