<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Interesting, I'd like to hear more. I thought I had heard the opposite before, which is why I made the claim. It is possible, that I have been too lazy to confirm my assumptions, which in that case, I would apologize. What do you mean by "player pair" though? I'll reserve judgement until you repost. I know his TS% falls belows Kobe's without Shaq, and he snatches more rebounds, partially due to the fact that he roams more on defense. </div> Here's the player pairs page for the Miami Heat last season: http://www.82games.com/0506/0506MIAP.HTM Provides stats for players when another teammate was also on the floor. From that, you can figure out what the player did with and without the teammate. For Wade: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>MinFgmFga ftm Fta oreb drebRebAstStlBlkT/O PFPts TS%GS<br/>overall 2887 9.719.68.7 11.11.54.5 6.07.02.00.83.7 3.0 28.357.8%22.5<br/>w/ Shaq 1425 9.016.67.2 9.2 1.23.7 4.97.51.90.83.9 3.0 25.662.0%21.4<br/>w/o Shaq1462 10.4 22.510.113.01.85.3 7.16.52.10.83.5 3.0 30.954.8%23.5<br/></div> Some of the categories above aren't available, so had to estimate. That could, of course, throw off the results. I assumed the percentage of his rebounds that are offensive stayed the same, I assumed his FT% stayed the same, and I assumed his PF/min stayed the same. The last 2 columns (you'll have to scroll) are TS% (which is more or less accurate), and GS (Hollinger's game score rating, per 40 minutes, using the above estimates). GS is sort of a shortcut to PER, without adjusting for pace. This is formula: (Points x 1.0) + (FGM x 0.4) + (FGA x -0.7) + ((FTA-FTM) x -0.4) + (OREB x 0.7) + (DREB x 0.3) + (STL x 1.0) + (AST x 0.7) + (BLK x 0.7) + (PF x -0.4) + (TO x -1.0) If we assume the pace didn't change significantly with and without Shaq (which I doubt), then Wade's game score rating is probably higher. If we take a "worst case" scenario, and assume the pace with Shaq is 90% of the pace without Shaq (this is the ratio of slowest to fastest paced teams in the league, last year) then bump down Wade's GS without Shaq 10% -- it becomes 21.1. Slightly worse. If we take the pace with Shaq to be 95% of what it would be without Shaq, then Wade's GS without Shaq bumps down to 22.3. Hope that's clear.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's the player pairs page for the Miami Heat last season: http://www.82games.com/0506/0506MIAP.HTM Provides stats for players when another teammate was also on the floor. From that, you can figure out what the player did with and without the teammate. For Wade: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>MinFgmFga ftm Fta oreb drebRebAstStlBlkT/O PFPts TS%GS<br/>overall 2887 9.719.68.7 11.11.54.5 6.07.02.00.83.7 3.0 28.357.8%22.5<br/>w/ Shaq 1425 9.016.67.2 9.2 1.23.7 4.97.51.90.83.9 3.0 25.662.0%21.4<br/>w/o Shaq1462 10.4 22.510.113.01.85.3 7.16.52.10.83.5 3.0 30.954.8%23.5<br/></div> Some of the categories above aren't available, so had to estimate. That could, of course, throw off the results. I assumed the percentage of his rebounds that are offensive stayed the same, I assumed his FT% stayed the same, and I assumed his PF/min stayed the same. The last 2 columns (you'll have to scroll) are TS% (which is more or less accurate), and GS (Hollinger's game score rating, per 40 minutes, using the above estimates). GS is sort of a shortcut to PER, without adjusting for pace. This is formula: (Points x 1.0) + (FGM x 0.4) + (FGA x -0.7) + ((FTA-FTM) x -0.4) + (OREB x 0.7) + (DREB x 0.3) + (STL x 1.0) + (AST x 0.7) + (BLK x 0.7) + (PF x -0.4) + (TO x -1.0) If we assume the pace didn't change significantly with and without Shaq (which I doubt), then Wade's game score rating is probably higher. If we take a "worst case" scenario, and assume the pace with Shaq is 90% of the pace without Shaq (this is the ratio of slowest to fastest paced teams in the league, last year) then bump down Wade's GS without Shaq 10% -- it becomes 21.1. Slightly worse. If we take the pace with Shaq to be 95% of what it would be without Shaq, then Wade's GS without Shaq bumps down to 22.3. Hope that's clear.</div> Yes I see, he is basically the same player. Just for the record though, his rebounding is a bit skewed. He does indeed freelance more than others. Also, even if one thinks great perimeter defensive players don't contribute much to their respective teams, energy is still wasted on that side of the ball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Avery:</div><div class="quote_post">I hope AI is reading this thread. </div> Holy Crap! An Avery siting! Where have you been? you probably don't know me, I'm azn_iverson but I never really posted much when you were still active!
i just feel that kevin garnett won't get any better than he is now (he can prove me wrong) and the t-wolves did NOT have a good season this year p.s. maybe its jus me but i'm pretty sure dwade's D isnt THAT much better than LeBron's...
