<div class="quote_poster">Quoting American Poet:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree. I mean it may be good for alot of players to get a couple of years of the college game to develop more and get a better taste of the pro game, but its makes you think this America, you can dream to be anything...at any age.</div> Can I dream of being a police officer at 14? Can I dream of being a bartender at 20?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> At the same time, I question the motives for imposing an age limit.</div> I just think that David Stern wants to rid the NBA of Ndudi Ebi's and Darko Milicic's. While some of the NBA's best players made the jump straight from High School, there's also a great deal of failures. I'm sure that many of the league's officials are tired of the NBA becoming a development league, and although a minor league system would be the easy way to go, the age limit would most likely benefit the overall quality of the game. The league's image also needs a makeover after the Detroit-Indiana brawl, and with a college education you're less likely to get involved in criminal activity. I think those reasons are most of what inspires the NBA to set an age limit. I just can't see anything racial about it.
Well I didn`t mean to young lol but what I`m basically saying is that their shouldn`t be an age limit on the draft. Another thing is I mean don`t the players have the choice of going to college or NBA? Its their desicision what they want to do with their future, not the NBA`s.
this is crap This is the biggest load of crap ever that its racist. There are almost as many white europeans coming in the league every year at 18,19 as there are black teenagers in the US.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree, though I don't have numbers to back it up. But I frequently come across people who say they dislike the NBA because its full of "thugs" and spoiled, overpaid kids. Now, to me, and I don't mean to generalize, but I think a lot of people who think that way have internalized some racist ideas. </div> Did you ever think that people who are complaining of "thugs" and spoiled, overpaid kids are actually complaining about "thugs" and spoiled, overpaid kids and not black people? Suggesting otherwise makes it sound like you think that you automatically think of black people when the NBA's players get those labels. What about Steve Smith? He's one of the NBA's most charitable players, and he's a black man. What about Jason Williams? He's a player who's constantly getting into trouble and gives the league a bad name, yet he's a white man. The reason they think the NBA players are "thugs" is because of the high crime rates among NBA players. It's true that you hardly ever hear about NHL players commiting crimes but always hear about NBA players being accused for murder, rape, or drugs. That's just how it is; it has nothing to do with race. If there were an age limit and more players matured in college, you'd see a decrease in these accusations and the NBA's image as a whole would be much better off.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Even taking into account the growing influx of foreign players, I'd expect that most players in the league under 20 are black Americans with relatively poor educational backgrounds. What are David Stern's reasons for wanting the age limit? I honestly believe it goes deeper than just the quality of the game. The game's quality has noticeably increased between last and this year, despite the league constantly getting younger. There is noticeable disenchantment with the NBA from middle-America in recent years, and one can't ignore the possibility of a racist undercurrent being a factor in that. It is this dwindling appeal of the NBA amongst key consumer demographics which I believe is partly driving the move to impose an age limit. Again, this is a case of management reacting to consumers who dislike the game for (to some degree) racist reasons. It's like a movie producer deciding not to hire to people of different races for the romantic leads for fear of a backlash (a business consideration), and the director complaining about it. He's not a hypocrite for staying with the film and retaining his paycheck, is he? I disagree, though I don't have numbers to back it up. But I frequently come across people who say they dislike the NBA because its full of "thugs" and spoiled, overpaid kids. Now, to me, and I don't mean to generalize, but I think a lot of people who think that way have internalized some racist ideas. Well, consider the TV producer analogy I made above, which I think is a better comparison. Is that hypocritical? But you don't have that right. I don't believe there's any law which makes it illegal for a company to impose age limits on employees. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sort of ambivalent on the issue, except I don't think any player can sensibly whine about having a "right" to be in the NBA. That doesn't make any sense to me. At the same time, I question the motives for imposing an age limit.</div> You cannot look at the players "in the league," you have to look at the players applying to get into the league. Let's take a look at the 2003 draft as a sample study, LeBron's draft class. 6 first rounders were African Americans under 20 8 first rounders were International players under 20 1 first rounder was African American under 20 12 second rounders were International players under 20 That's 20 to 7 in favor of International players being more effected. Even if you take out Pietrus, Diaw, Barbosa, and Diaw, Morlende, Van de Har and Badiane, (non-white), it's still 13 to 7 in favor of International players. I provided the numbers to disprove your belief the NBA is not making as much money. As for the analogy of the producer, yes the person is a hypocrite if they feel it's a racist decision and goes along with it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't understand this argument that most High School early entries are black men, so thus the NBA is trying to keep the black man down. Well, incase you haven't noticed, most NBA players in general are black men, both from the college and High School level. There's even a great deal of international black men in the NBA. The fact of the matter is that the NBA is predominantly black sport now. Will every negative thing that happens to the NBA's players now be blamed on racism?</div> I don't have any numbers on this, but I'd like to see what percentage of players in the league that are under 20 are black, and what percentage over 20 are black. I'd be willing to wager that the under-20 group has a much higher percentage of black players. Additionally, I think if you look at players making over 10 million a year versus players making under 10 million, a much greater percentage would be black. I think some people look at that disparity and feel that these players need to earn their way to the big bucks by going to college. But in other sports where that disparity isn't as clear, that notion of having to earn your way to all that money isn't there. Racism is an issue here. I've seen fairly explicit racist comments from people in this forum in fact. It obviously exists. Now, let's consider why so many people think its imperative for young basketball players to "go to college and get an education" whereas you rarely hear that about young baseball players or hockey players. If its not a race thing, then what is it? Are basketball players just inherently less "mature?" If so, based on what evidence? And I don't buy The Show's idea that basketball's relative popularity is difference. I honestly don't see how he made that connection. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And durvasa, I wouldn't suggest that maturing these players is white-washing them. That would imply that the only mature people in this world are white. I'd call it more growing up that being white-washed.</div> Fair enough. But again, what separates the young basketball player from the young hockey player. Why is it so crucial for young basketball players to go to college and "mature," whereas it's not such a big deal in other sports? Is there actual evidence to show that an 18 year old basketball player is, on average, less mature than an 18 year old baseball or hockey player? I suspect that there's a tendency to just jump to this conclusion based more on appearances than actual behavior.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't have any numbers on this, but I'd like to see what percentage of players in the league that are under 20 are black, and what percentage over 20 are black. I'd be willing to wager that the under-20 group has a much higher percentage of black players. Additionally, I think if you look at players making over 10 million a year versus players making under 10 million, a much greater percentage would be black. I think some people look at that disparity and feel that these players need to earn their way to the big bucks by going to college. But in other sports where that disparity isn't as clear, that notion of having to earn your way to all that money isn't there. Racism is an issue here. I've seen fairly explicit racist comments from people in this forum in fact. It obviously exists. Now, let's consider why so many people think its imperative for young basketball players to "go to college and get an education" whereas you rarely hear that about young baseball players or hockey players. If its not a race thing, then what is it? Are basketball players just inherently less "mature?" If so, based on what evidence? And I don't buy The Show's idea that basketball's relative popularity is difference. I honestly don't see how he made that connection. Fair enough. But again, what separates the young basketball player from the young hockey player. Why is it so crucial for young basketball players to go to college and "mature," whereas it's not such a big deal in other sports? Is there actual evidence to show that an 18 year old basketball player is, on average, less mature than an 18 year old baseball or hockey player? I suspect that there's a tendency to just jump to this conclusion based more on appearances than actual behavior.</div> Wait a minute, baseball and hockey have something the NBA lacks, a REAL minor league system. There's an outlet for young players to actually develop in a baseball farm system or on an amateur hockey team. The NBA doesn't have anything remotely close to a minor league system, where pro teams have a direct relationship to their minor league teams. I think Stern's ultimate goal is to have this system developed and everyone will benefit from it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">While some of the NBA's best players made the jump straight from High School, there's also a great deal of failures. I'm sure that many of the league's officials are tired of the NBA becoming a development league, and although a minor league system would be the easy way to go, the age limit would most likely benefit the overall quality of the game.</div>I agree, and I'm sick of people trying to use the "but Lebron, Kobe, etc. all came out of HS" excuse. Here's a list I threw together quickly of the HS players drafted from 96-03... _________________________________________ Amare Stoudemire Cypress Creek HS (Fla.) LeBron James St. Mary / St. Vincent (ohio) HS Rashard Lewis Alief Elsik HS Tracy McGrady Mount Zion (NC) Academy Kobe Bryant Lower Merion (PA) HS Jermaine ONeal Eau Claire (SC) HS Kevin Garnett Farragut Academy (IL) _______________________________________ Tyson Chandler Dominguez, HS Eddy Curry Thornwood, HS Al Harrington St. Patrick's HS _______________________________________ Darius Miles East St Louis (IL) HS DeShawn Stevenson Washington Union (CA) HS Kwame Brown Glynn Academy, HS Desagana Diop Oak Hill Academy, HS Travis Outlaw Starkville HS (ms) Ndudi Ebi Westbury Christian HS (tx) Kendrick Perkins Ozen HS (tx) James Lang Central Park Christian HS (ala) Jonathan Bender Picayune (MS) HS Leon Smith Martin Luther King (IL) HS The top 7 players were all great picks, but only 2 or 3 of them made an impact in their first 2 years. The middle 3 are impossible to judge at this point, but none of the 3 have played to their potential. The bottom 10 have all been busts. So all this time that people have said "for every LeBron, there's a Leon Smith", it's actually "for every LeBron, there's 1.43 Leon Smith's". I think this is a big reason as to why the NBA wants to set the age limit because 2 years of college ball will help weed out the busts. Also, the "stars" will come into the NBA ready to play, as opposed to using the NBA club as a developmental tool.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">You cannot look at the players "in the league," you have to look at the players applying to get into the league. Let's take a look at the 2003 draft as a sample study, LeBron's draft class. 6 first rounders were African Americans under 20 8 first rounders were International players under 20 1 first rounder was African American under 20 12 second rounders were International players under 20 That's 20 to 7 in favor of International players being more effected. Even if you take out Pietrus, Diaw, Barbosa, and Diaw, Morlende, Van de Har and Badiane, (non-white), it's still 13 to 7 in favor of International players. I provided the numbers to disprove your belief the NBA is not making as much money.</div> Well, I appreciate you providing this information. But I do think we should to take into account the fact that international players tend to stay overseas for years even after getting drafted. Also, the international player typically has the option of staying overseas and earning good money playing professionally in his own country until he's of age to play in the NBA. I don't think the impact of an age limit on them is as much as it is on Americans (who'd have to play in college, in a development league, or go overseas in the meantime). Now, if you look consider specifically Americans under 20 who were drafted, how many of them were black versus white? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for the analogy of the producer, yes the person is a hypocrite if they feel it's a racist decision and goes along with it.</div> I disagree on this one. He's not benefitting from the thing he's criticizing (in this case, an NBA age limit). We should probably also consider the context in which he made his remarks. Did he flag down a reporter and initiate the conversation? Or was he responding to a question along the line of "what are your thoughts on this issue? "
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't have any numbers on this, but I'd like to see what percentage of players in the league that are under 20 are black, and what percentage over 20 are black. I'd be willing to wager that the under-20 group has a much higher percentage of black players. Additionally, I think if you look at players making over 10 million a year versus players making under 10 million, a much greater percentage would be black. I think some people look at that disparity and feel that these players need to earn their way to the big bucks by going to college. But in other sports where that disparity isn't as clear, that notion of having to earn your way to all that money isn't there.</div> If you don't have the statistics, then get them or don't post about them. The last time you talked about statistics that you didn't have, Shapecity posted them and they were actually in his favor. Even if the ratio of black players to white players under twenty is greater than the ratio of black players to white players over twenty, it still doesn't prove your point. If there's any margin, then it's slim. Right now with the NBA's eighteen year old age limit, players right out of High School usually turn twenty in their second or third year of the NBA anyway, so if the players in that under-twenty category change so often then I don't think you can gauge an accurate statistic of it. I also don't understand your point about the black players making ten million dollars. Again, there's more black players in the NBA, so what do you expect? I'm actually surprised how many great white players there are considering what a minority they are in the NBA. Look at players like Dirk Nowitzki, Brad Miller, Pau Gasol, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Steve Nash, Peja Stojakovic, Jason Kidd (1/2), and Emanuel Ginobili. For such a minority, it's pretty impressive that there are so many players on the elite level. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Fair enough. But again, what separates the young basketball player from the young hockey player. Why is it so crucial for young basketball players to go to college and "mature," whereas it's not such a big deal in other sports? Is there actual evidence to show that an 18 year old basketball player is, on average, less mature than an 18 year old baseball or hockey player? I suspect that there's a tendency to just jump to this conclusion based more on appearances than actual behavior.</div> Well, there's a few things that you have to consider. The NBA's players that come into the league at a young age come from bad school systems or shakey family structures a lot of times. For whatever reason, that problem seems to be around less in the NHL. You also have to consider that the NHL is not exactly under pressure about the behavior of their athlete's right now. When was the last time you opened the paper and read "Federov On Trial For ______"? They have bigger fish to fry right now, such as actually getting back on the ice and playing a season, so with the behavior of the players being as decent as it is right now, why would they concern themselves with ways to improve the league's behavior?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">While some of the NBA's best players made the jump straight from High School, there's also a great deal of failures. I'm sure that many of the league's officials are tired of the NBA becoming a development league, and although a minor league system would be the easy way to go, the age limit would most likely benefit the overall quality of the game.</div> I agree, and I'm sick of people trying to use the "but Lebron, Kobe, etc. all came out of HS" excuse. Here's a list I threw together quickly of the HS players drafted from 96-03... (please excuse me if I missed anybody.) _________________________________________ Amare Stoudemire Cypress Creek HS (Fla.) LeBron James St. Mary / St. Vincent (ohio) HS Rashard Lewis Alief Elsik HS Tracy McGrady Mount Zion (NC) Academy Kobe Bryant Lower Merion (PA) HS Jermaine ONeal Eau Claire (SC) HS Kevin Garnett Farragut Academy (IL) _______________________________________ Tyson Chandler Dominguez, HS Eddy Curry Thornwood, HS Al Harrington St. Patrick's HS _______________________________________ Darius Miles East St Louis (IL) HS DeShawn Stevenson Washington Union (CA) HS Kwame Brown Glynn Academy, HS Desagana Diop Oak Hill Academy, HS Travis Outlaw Starkville HS (ms) Ndudi Ebi Westbury Christian HS (tx) Kendrick Perkins Ozen HS (tx) James Lang Central Park Christian HS (ala) Jonathan Bender Picayune (MS) HS Leon Smith Martin Luther King (IL) HS Ousmane Cisse St. Jude HS The top 7 players were all great picks, but only 2 or 3 of them made an impact in their first 2 years. The middle 3 are impossible to judge at this point, but none of the 3 have played to their potential. The bottom 11 have all been busts. So all this time that people have said "for every LeBron, there's a Leon Smith", it's actually "for every LeBron, there's 1.57 Leon Smith's". I think this is a big reason as to why the NBA wants to set the age limit because 2 years of college ball will help weed out the busts. Also, the "stars" will come into the NBA ready to play, as opposed to using the NBA club as a developmental tool. As shape said, the NBA is only one league and has no minor league system. Using a roster spot to 'develop' a player is a waste. EDIT- There's also a few other undrafted HS players that were busts, but I'll leave them out to be as fair as possible.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The league's image also needs a makeover after the Detroit-Indiana brawl, and with a college education you're less likely to get involved in criminal activity. </div> I think that's just a generalization. After all, Jermaine O'Neal was the only one without a known college education (unless he went back and got his degree) that was taking part in the brawl. In the heat of the moment, college education has nothing to do with it, anger is anger.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I appreciate you providing this information. But I do think we should to take into account the fact that international players tend to stay overseas for years even after getting drafted. Also, the international player typically has the option of staying overseas and earning good money playing professionally in his own country until he's of age to play in the NBA. I don't think the impact of an age limit on them is as much as it is on Americans (who'd have to play in college, in a development league, or go overseas in the meantime). Now, if you look consider specifically Americans under 20 who were drafted, how many of them were black versus white? </div> American players have the option to play overseas as well, the NBDL, and at worst go to college on a free ride. International players don't even have the same options as Americans, yet Jermain O'neal feels it's racist and unfair. There's a number of professional leagues in the US as well that will pay players to play basketball for a living. So you're right the impact is not the same for International players, the impact is an even <u>greater hinderance</u> to them. Americans under 20 who were drafted were all African Americans that year. What does that prove and how does it correlate to being racist? If the demographic buyer you refer to is upset and is not spending money. Then explain to me why the biggest sponsors of the NBA have underage high school players endorsing their products? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I disagree on this one. He's not benefitting from the thing he's criticizing (in this case, an NBA age limit). We should probably also consider the context in which he made his remarks. Did he flag down a reporter and initiate the conversation? Or was he responding to a question along the line of "what are your thoughts on this issue? "</div> I don't understand the first part of your reply. Can you rephrase that? I'm sure a reporter did flag him down and asked his opinion. And the ignorant comments flowed right out his mouth. "It's racist."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">I think that's just a generalization. After all, Jermaine O'Neal was the only one without a known college education (unless he went back and got his degree) that was taking part in the brawl. In the heat of the moment, college education has nothing to do with it, anger is anger.</div> I never said that education played a role in the Detroit-Indiana brawl. I was simply stating that overall criminal activities would decrease if more players were educated, and the league needs a good image more than ever as a result of the Detroit-Indiana brawl.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">If you don't have the statistics, then get them or don't post about them. The last time you talked about statistics that you didn't have, Shapecity posted them and they were actually in his favor. </div> And if I didn't mention the statistic, he may not have provided that information. So its a good thing I did, right? Part of the reason I mention them is to provoke discussion. If someone else has details to fill in, then that's great. I think I'm pretty clear about when I'm speculating, and when I'm not. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Even if the ratio of black players to white players under twenty is greater than the ratio of black players to white players over twenty, it still doesn't prove your point. If there's any margin, then it's slim.</div> If the margin is slim, then you're right it doesn't prove anything. But if its significant, then it support the idea that black players would be disproportionately effected by the ruling. This doesn't make it racist, but I think its understandable for black athletes to question why the ruling would be put in place when in other sports (where that disparity isn't as evident) it's not there. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Right now with the NBA's eighteen year old age limit, players right out of High School usually turn twenty in their second or third year of the NBA anyway, so if the players in that under-twenty category change so often then I don't think you can gauge an accurate statistic of it.</div> You could take several snapshots over time of the league and examine the ratios. If there's a trend, we could extrapolate what the ratios would be in the near future. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I also don't understand your point about the black players making ten million dollars. Again, there's more black players in the NBA, so what do you expect? I'm actually surprised how many great white players there are considering what a minority they are in the NBA. Look at players like Dirk Nowitzki, Brad Miller, Pau Gasol, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Steve Nash, Peja Stojakovic, Jason Kidd (1/2), and Emanuel Ginobili. For such a minority, it's pretty impressive that there are so many players on the elite level.</div> Well, I said comparing the ratios of black players, not the raw total. So the fact that there are more black players overall wouldn't be a factor. Here's my point: A lot of Americans don't like the NBA for reasons which I believe in many instance have racist undertones: "The NBA is just a league of thugs who can barely spell and are getting paid way too much money." It seems that a lack of education in sports where there's more prevalent white players (particularly whtie American players) is accepted. But in the NBA, there are very few white American players, and somehow there's an added hostility towards them. Maybe it's inaccurate to call it black vs. white. Maybe White American vs. Minority/Foreigner is more appropriate. But there does definitely seem to be a sort of bias at work. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, there's a few things that you have to consider. The NBA's players that come into the league at a young age come from bad school systems or shakey family structures a lot of times. For whatever reason, that problem seems to be around less in the NHL. </div> Ok, I think we're getting closer to the issue. So, it is more of a consideration for the social/economic climate in which prospective NBA players have grown up that brings up the age limit, versus just a race thing. The NBA is sensitive to this perception people have of its players (which may very well be accurate) and are trying to address it by making sure its incoming players are wiser and more mature, thus the age limit. Now, do people have that perception of players being immature based on actual facts, or does it come more from a the stereotypes we have of young black men? I think this is where the "racism" charge comes in. What you say may very well be based on facts, in which case its a valid concern, but if the perception is more a product of the black stereotypes than THAT is what people are talking about when they refer to "racial undercurrent." So, one might say, "Ok, this could be good for the league as far as improving the quality of the character of its players since many of them didn't learn proper values growing up, but don't assume that's the case simply because most of the players are black." <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You also have to consider that the NHL is not exactly under pressure about the behavior of their athlete's right now. When was the last time you opened the paper and read "Federov On Trial For ______"? They have bigger fish to fry right now, such as actually getting back on the ice and playing a season, so with the behavior of the players being as decent as it is right now, why would they concern themselves with ways to improve the league's behavior?</div> Fair point.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I said comparing the ratios of black players, not the raw total. So the fact that there are more black players overall wouldn't be a factor. Here's my point: A lot of Americans don't like the NBA for reasons which I believe in many instance have racist undertones: "The NBA is just a league of thugs who can barely spell and are getting paid way too much money." It seems that a lack of education in sports where there's more prevalent white players (particularly whtie American players) is accepted. But in the NBA, there are very few white American players, and somehow there's an added hostility towards them. Maybe it's inaccurate to call it black vs. white. Maybe White American vs. Minority/Foreigner is more appropriate. But there does definitely seem to be a sort of bias at work. </div>How is that fair to say? The NBA is far more popular than the NHL. Last year, the NHL Finals failed to beat "Spongebob Squarepants" in the national ratings. There's clearly some dislike from the American people when it comes to hockey (over 95% white). The NBA is the 3rd most popular of the 4 major sports. It always has been, and it will most likely always be like that. It's only a matter of people's tastes in sports. The NBA Finals actually had record ratings last year so I dont know where your assumptions are coming from.
Durvasa I know you like numbers, so here's one to look at. Only 29 players have entered the NBA draft as high schoolers in the past 25 years. Off Topic: Here's a great read on the subject Illegal Defense: The Irrational Economics of Banning High School Players from the NBA Draft
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If the margin is slim, then you're right it doesn't prove anything. But if its significant, then it support the idea that black players would be disproportionately effected by the ruling. This doesn't make it racist, but I think its understandable for black athletes to question why the ruling would be put in place when in other sports (where that disparity isn't as evident) it's not there. </div> No, the age limit would not decrease the percentage of black players nor make it harder for them to get in. They'd just be going through college first. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's my point: A lot of Americans don't like the NBA for reasons which I believe in many instance have racist undertones: "The NBA is just a league of thugs who can barely spell and are getting paid way too much money." It seems that a lack of education in sports where there's more prevalent white players (particularly whtie American players) is accepted. But in the NBA, there are very few white American players, and somehow there's an added hostility towards them. Maybe it's inaccurate to call it black vs. white. Maybe White American vs. Minority/Foreigner is more appropriate.</div> First of all, you have yet to address my point that you seem to throw around the terms like "thug" as if all thugs are black males. While I do believe that a large group of Americans have stopped watching basketball because of the "thugs", a thug could be Jason Williams or Brad Miller. Also, even if the thugs they are referring to are black, that doesn't mean they see all blacks as thugs. Whether you want to believe it or not, the NBA does have a lot of thugs, both black and white. So the criticism of the NBA's "thugs" is almost deserved and isn't racial at all. The lack of education in other sports is not complained about, because those sports don't have players on television saying something absurd, being arrested, or disputing with teammates as often as the NBA does. Also, their draft processes are different. The NFL does have a strict age limit, the NHL allows players to still play college hockey after being drafted, and the MLB has an excellent minor league system. Let's say the worst case scenario is revealed as true (as crazy as it is) and many white NBA fans in America comes out and says they do not like the black players. Even if this were true, why would you think the NBA would think up something like an age limit to satisfy their needs? As stated many times in this thread, profits are at an all-time high, especially from the High School kids. It's not like the black players are taken out of the game anyway. They just have to remain out of it for two more years. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But there does definitely seem to be a sort of bias at work.</div> Maybe there <u>seems</u> to be bias at work, but hopefully you know better. Frankly, the stuff that you are bringing up sounds like it belongs in Shapecity's latest conspiracy article. They're all remote possibilities but very farfetched none the less. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, I think we're getting closer to the issue. So, it is more of a consideration for the social/economic climate in which prospective NBA players have grown up that brings up the age limit, versus just a race thing. The NBA is sensitive to this perception people have of its players (which may very well be accurate) and are trying to address it by making sure its incoming players are wiser and more mature, thus the age limit. Now, do people have that perception of players being immature based on actual facts, or does it come more from a the stereotypes we have of young black men? I think this is where the "racism" charge comes in. What you say may very well be based on facts, in which case its a valid concern, but if the perception is more a product of the black stereotypes than THAT is what people are talking about when they refer to "racial undercurrent." </div> I was talking about players coming from bad educational backgrounds. Not once did I say players were coming from "black backgrounds". To assume that I implied that is to assume that the only players who come from poor educational backgrounds out of High School are blacks. I'm not talking about just the blacks. I'm talking about all the schools out there like Laurinberg Prep and Oak Hill Academy which are basically basketball gyms with schools on the side. As far as the perception of the NBA, perception is reality most of the time. I'm not implying anything about race by saying that. I'm saying that when you're perceived as a league full of immature kids and/or criminals, then you likely are a league full of immature kids and criminals. College could help this out. You say that the NBA wants them to be wiser and more mature like it's a bad thing, why? Either way, I doubt the NBA is trying to make this move to improve their image so much as they are trying to improve the overall quality of the game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> So, one might say, "Ok, this could be good for the league as far as improving the quality of the character of its players since many of them didn't learn proper values growing up, but don't assume that's the case simply because most of the players are black."</div> It's not so much that kids don't learn proper values growing up as it is kids just not being mentally mature <u>yet</u>. Going to college will prepare a lot of these kids mentally for the NBA on many different mental levels.
I don't get how it's racist, to who European players? All the highschool players just need to go to College and take any garbage course, and can get into the NBA down the road.
