I fail to see your point. Bowen did a good job on Kobe, yeah...but Kobe burned him with ease. He scored pretty much at will, shot at a great %, dominated when we needed him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't buy the argument that Kobe only deserved 2.2 Free Throws a game the way Duncan was being protected.</div> but "timmy" (as tony parker calls him) plays inside so it's understandable....... KG vs. Pau will be interesting seeing as both men are soft as hell......I give the edge to KG, but my guess is Odom might get a lot of time guarding Garnett........
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dream @ May 31 2008, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't buy the argument that Kobe only deserved 2.2 Free Throws a game the way Duncan was being protected.</div> but "timmy" (as tony parker calls him) plays inside so it's understandable....... KG vs. Pau will be interesting seeing as both men are soft as hell......I give the edge to KG, but my guess is Odom might get a lot of time guarding Garnett........ </div> Timmy was being protected, Kobe was not. TD didn't deserve any extra shots from the charity stripe whereas the opposite can be argued for Kobe. Bowen didn't play as much lock down defense as you claim. Though he was respectable/nice of course. Kobe drove to the line ferociously in Game five and got barely any calls. He would have had 3 FTs in that game if it weren't for an intentional foul at the end.
Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.</div> I don't believe in any conspiracy theories, but Kobe's lack of free throw attempts had a lot to do with the way the officials protected Duncan on defense against Gasol. A majority of Kobe's free throws come as a result of the opposing team getting into early foul trouble and into the penalty. Once the opposing team is in the penalty it doesn't matter where Kobe is on the court or if he's shooting or not, if you foul him he's shooting two shots. This is when Kobe gets extra aggressive on offense because he knows the defender has to back off more. Bowen gets away with plenty on the court, but I wouldn't isolate this matchup. I felt Gasol and Odom weren't getting the benefit of the whistle at all in the series against Duncan and it restricted the amount of opportunities to get the Spurs team into early foul trouble. If you pay attention to Duncan, he uses his off hand illegally by pushing a players hip, digging an elbow into the midsection, or grabbing his man's jersey around the belly area. In real time motion it's tough to catch his tricks, but on replays it's clear to see how much fouling he's actually getting away with. A majority of the time the officials are watching his other arm which is extended up and trying to contest the shot. They don't see the work he's doing with his other hand to keep the offensive player off balance.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.</div> Oh Sure, he ONLY took jumpers. Give me a break, your post is full of jack shit when it comes to details.. Spurs fanatics, I never said the NBA was rigged for anyone. Lol are you stupid or something? I never implied Kobe deserved 10 free throws a game or more respect than Duncan on the free throw line, but the refs were indeed helping Timmy on a consistent basis in this particular series. Bad officiating is all, I don't think the League actually likes the Spurs. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bowen gets away with plenty on the court, but I wouldn't isolate this matchup. I felt Gasol and Odom weren't getting the benefit of the whistle at all in the series against Duncan and it restricted the amount of opportunities to get the Spurs team into early foul trouble.If you pay attention to Duncan, he uses his off hand illegally by pushing a players hip, digging an elbow into the midsection, or grabbing his man's jersey around the belly area. In real time motion it's tough to catch his tricks, but on replays it's clear to see how much fouling he's actually getting away with. A majority of the time the officials are watching his other arm which is extended up and trying to contest the shot. They don't see the work he's doing with his other hand to keep the offensive player off balance.</div> This is what I was referring to. Way to go Shape.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (o.iatlhawksfan @ May 31 2008, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'> smh</div> Stop ****ing trolling. WTF does this have to do with the thread? SMH at your terrible unfunny joke, Jeffrey Dahmer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>By Brian Mahoney, AP Basketball Writer A position-by-position look at the matchups in the NBA finals between the Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Lakers. CENTER: Kendrick Perkins vs. Pau Gasol. The Lakers wouldn't be here without their midseason acquisition of Gasol from Memphis. He's a good passer for a big man, making him an excellent fit for the triangle offense, and is shooting 53 percent in the postseason while averaging 17.7 points. Perkins made 61.5 percent of his shots in the regular season and had some strong games in the Eastern Conference finals, including an 18-point, 16-rebound performance in Game 5. Edge: Lakers. POWER FORWARD: Kevin Garnett vs. Lamar Odom. The Defensive Player of the Year, Garnett increased his offensive production in the conference finals, averaging 22.8 points in Boston's victory over Detroit. His intensity on both ends of the floor is what makes the Celtics go. The versatile Odom was inconsistent against San Antonio in the Western Conference finals, but rebounded from a poor Game 3 with strong performances in the last two games. Edge: Celtics. SMALL FORWARD: Paul Pierce vs. Vladimir Radmanovic. Finally in the NBA finals in his 10th year with Boston, Pierce is set to face his hometown team. He has shown in the playoffs he can still be a potent scorer, notably in his 41-point effort to beat Cleveland in Game 7 of the second round, and has become an underrated defender. Radmanovic is a good perimeter shooter who doesn't do much else, and the Lakers need his jumper to be on to soften a Boston defense that held opponents to the lowest field goal percentage in the league. Edge: Celtics. SHOOTING GUARD: Ray Allen vs. Kobe Bryant. Allen seemed to break out of his shooting slump in the final two games of the conference finals, averaging 23 points and going 8-of-14 from 3-point range. Bryant, a tenacious defender, will certainly welcome the challenge of trying to get that slump started again. And the league MVP has been at his best in the playoffs, averaging 31.9 points to lead all players in the postseason and shooting 52 percent. Edge: Lakers. POINT GUARD: Rajon Rondo vs. Derek Fisher. Fisher had a fairly quiet series in the conference finals, but his postseason experience, solid defense and courage to take big shots remain a comfort to the Lakers even when his shot isn't falling. Rondo's poor jumper was especially off late in the last round, when he shot 10-of-35 in the final three games. The Lakers will make him beat them from the outside. Edge: Lakers. RESERVES: James Posey, P.J. Brown, Sam Cassell, Eddie House, Leon Powe, Glen Davis and Tony Allen vs. Sasha Vujacic, Luke Walton, Jordan Farmar, Ronny Turiaf, DJ Mbenga and Trevor Ariza. Posey won a title with Miami two years ago and is a key contributor who will help defend Bryant, but tough to figure out what else to expect from Celtics' reserves. Minutes greatly fluctuated along with their production for most of them during the postseason. The Lakers counter with a much younger bench that tries to increase the tempo and energy when Bryant is resting. Edge: Lakers. COACHES: Doc Rivers vs. Phil Jackson. Rivers did a great job molding all the Celtics' new pieces into a 66-win team. But he's appeared to lose confidence in some of his role players during the postseason, creating some inconsistent rotations. Jackson, the career leader in postseason victories, did one of his best coaching jobs this season on a team that started with the turmoil surrounding a possible Bryant trade and was never expected to be here. He seeks a 10th title, which would break Red Auerbach's record. Edge: Lakers.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 31 2008, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.</div> Oh Sure, he ONLY took jumpers. Give me a break, your post is full of jack shit when it comes to details.. Spurs fanatics, I never said the NBA was rigged for anyone. </div> Learn to read. I never said only. You're putting words in my mouth which I didn't say to make your point when you have none. A vast majority of his shots were jumpers. Want a number? Probably 80%. 10% were dunks. 5% were runners in the lane, and only 5% were tough layups which usually draw fouls. Spurs fanatic? How about you read other things I posted. I've never talked trash about Lakers team nor did I ever make unrealistic comments about the Spurs. Take your shit somewhere else. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Lol are you stupid or something? I never implied Kobe deserved 10 free throws a game or more respect than Duncan on the free throw line, but the refs were indeed helping Timmy on a consistent basis in this particular series. Bad officiating is all, I don't think the League actually likes the Spurs.</div>Again. Kobe was defended by Bowen, who publicly stated that his main strategy is NOT to foul Bryant. Duncan was defended by two people who at certain points in their career could have made No-Defense team. I didn't see bad officiating. I saw Gasol and Odom being outclassed by Duncan in the post, and tricked by Oberto. There were plenty of bad calls in this series just like in any other game. To say that Spurs were getting all the calls is simply ridiculous. More than that, if you actually looked at the amounts of fouls committed by the Lakers big men, Odom and Gasol, actually averaged LESS fouls per game than they did during the Utah series, while Bowen averaged many more personals than he did during the season and all other playoff series. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bowen gets away with plenty on the court, but I wouldn't isolate this matchup. I felt Gasol and Odom weren't getting the benefit of the whistle at all in the series against Duncan and it restricted the amount of opportunities to get the Spurs team into early foul trouble.If you pay attention to Duncan, he uses his off hand illegally by pushing a players hip, digging an elbow into the midsection, or grabbing his man's jersey around the belly area. In real time motion it's tough to catch his tricks, but on replays it's clear to see how much fouling he's actually getting away with. A majority of the time the officials are watching his other arm which is extended up and trying to contest the shot. They don't see the work he's doing with his other hand to keep the offensive player off balance.</div> Because Gasol and Odom played very poorly. Can you honestly remember many plays that were specifically ran for Odom and Gasol in which they were supposed to score 1v1 against Duncan? Odom played poorly for most of the series, except for about 4 different quarters. Most of Gasol's buckets were garbage offensive rebounds. The current Laker offense is not designed to make Gasol a post scorer, unfortunately. As for Odom, even while he was quiet for most of the series and played bad, he still shot a large amount of FTs. Duncan on the other hand, often got the ball on the left side and was given a one on one match up with either Turiaf or Gasol. That is why he shot a lot of FTs. As for your observations about how Duncan plays defense, no offense dude, but pretty much everyone does that. Hell, remember the Pachulia-Garnett incident? Pachulia was holding onto Garnett's jersey for about 5 seconds. THAT is dirty. Duncan does what pretty much every single big man in the NBA is taught to do in order to slow down the opposing big man. In fact, if you're trying to say that Duncan is a dirty defender, I dare you to find a single credible article that supports your opinion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (o.iatlhawksfan @ May 31 2008, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'> smh</div> Where's Chris Childs in the NBA now?
The Lakers ran their offense through Pau in the post in their half court sets. He had a lot of 1 on 1 opportunities against Duncan. When Pau would make his initial move Duncan fouls him almost every time, but because Duncan has a "reputation" for being a good defender he gets the benefit of the whistle. Gasol couldn't make the adjustment to his game until PJax pointed it out to him and told him to ignore the lack of calls and just power through Duncan. PJax went on to call him a weenie, and Gasol made the adjustment physically and mentally in Game 4 to outplay Duncan. I think Gasol had 4 or 5 offensive rebounds in the 1st quarter. In Game 5 he posted a career high 19 rebounds against Duncan. I know every big man does those moves, but the difference is the officials are more liberal with what they allow him to get away with. Who said anything about calling Duncan dirty?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dare you to find a single credible article that supports your opinion.</div> Just because something is written in an article, doesn't make it true. And just because something isn't written in an article, doesn't make it false. Shall I bring up the youthier Knicks?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 31 2008, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.</div> Oh Sure, he ONLY took jumpers. Give me a break, your post is full of jack shit when it comes to details.. Spurs fanatics, I never said the NBA was rigged for anyone. </div> Learn to read. I never said only. You're putting words in my mouth which I didn't say to make your point when you have none. A vast majority of his shots were jumpers. Want a number? Probably 80%. 10% were dunks. 5% were runners in the lane, and only 5% were tough layups which usually draw fouls. </div> Stop being a disgusting hypocrite, of course you didn't say "only" jumpers, it was a hyperbole. Dude get out of here, you started the immature shit in this thread. Your analysis is hardly credible, you pulled those numbers out of your ass. Find a real empirical analysis then I'll respect it. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral)</div><div class='quotemain'>No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation.</div> Hardly the bigger man. All you do is bitch about us being homers when we disagree, since the start that's been your position. Don't generalize like this. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Spurs fanatic? How about you read other things I posted. I've never talked trash about Lakers team nor did I ever make unrealistic comments about the Spurs. Take your shit somewhere else.</div> Huh, what? Fan is short for fanatic. You like the Spurs in some form, you are a fanatic, aka, fan. And congrats on being so FAIR to the Lakers, too. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe was defended by Bowen, who publicly stated that his main strategy is NOT to foul Bryant.</div> What else do you expect the Spurs to claim? Plus he probably should have played Kobe a little more aggressively, because Bryant completely owned him. What a beast. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan was defended by two people who at certain points in their career could have made No-Defense team. I didn't see bad officiating. I saw Gasol and Odom being outclassed by Duncan in the post, and tricked by Oberto. There were plenty of bad calls in this series just like in any other game. To say that Spurs were getting all the calls is simply ridiculous. More than that, if you actually looked at the amounts of fouls committed by the Lakers big men, Odom and Gasol, actually averaged LESS fouls per game than they did during the Utah series, while Bowen averaged many more personals than he did during the season and all other playoff series. </div> Shape is completely owning you in this tangent. Lol guy, I never said the Spurs got all the calls, but if Duncan is getting star treatment, so should Kobe. They got the benefit of the doubt throughout the series, and Shape is destroying you right now. Duncan has gotten away with slapping Pau in the face in addition to the overzealous elbows, and such.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thrilla @ May 31 2008, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The 2-3-2 format pretty much takes away all the benefits of home court advantage, so this should be really interesting. I admit I haven't paid much attention to the Lakers post Gasol, so I really don't know what to expect. I never really viewed the Lakers as a strong team before the Pau trade, so I don't understand how they became such a force. I'm really impressed with the way they cruised through the playoffs, and lately I've found myself gaining more and more respect for Kobe and his place in history. I can't really make a good prediction based on my lack of familiarity with the new and improved Lakers, but I want to think the Celtics will win it in a hard fought battle.</div> One word: Kobe Dude... for the past 3 years we've been there always coming up short but you could see that the team only lacked 1 important piece to really dominate and be a force in the league... once we got that (Pau) everyone knew what was going to happen.
Remember before the series versus the Pistons, most people and most analysts (like from espn, etc) picked Detroit to win, and you all know what the results were. Same thing happening now, with Boston getting no respect at all (except a few fans, here or there), and I'm pretty sure you will not enjoy the results that will come after the series is over. DRIVE417
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ May 31 2008, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Remember before the series versus the Pistons, most people and most analysts (like from espn, etc) picked Detroit to win, and you all know what the results were. Same thing happening now, with Boston getting no respect at all (except a few fans, here or there), and I'm pretty sure you will not enjoy the results that will come after the series is over. DRIVE417</div> Fightin' words. Bring it. I am thoroughly convinced after 5 games, L.A. will be hoisting that trophy.
