You did it to yourselves when you had to take LeBron, even though he was slumping, to seven games. Along with the Hawks. Don't ask for Laker Fans to be scared enough to predict against their own team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 31 2008, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.</div> I don't believe in any conspiracy theories, but Kobe's lack of free throw attempts had a lot to do with the way the officials protected Duncan on defense against Gasol. A majority of Kobe's free throws come as a result of the opposing team getting into early foul trouble and into the penalty. Once the opposing team is in the penalty it doesn't matter where Kobe is on the court or if he's shooting or not, if you foul him he's shooting two shots. This is when Kobe gets extra aggressive on offense because he knows the defender has to back off more.</div> I'm not sure what you mean. What does Kobe's lack of FTs have to do with official's treatment of Duncan on defense against Gasol. Are you saying that Lakers big men typically get their opponents into foul trouble, thus highlighting the need for Kobe to be aggressive? For one, that's an incredibly general strategy. Two, LA big men don't draw that many fouls. In fact, they drew more fouls in their previous teams. For example, Odom has shot 4.3 FTAs this season as compared to 4.7 for his career. Gasol shot 5.4 FTAs this season, down from 6.6 for his career. If we do some general rounding, let's assume that a player gets about 1.6 foul shots per each personal foul committed. I have no data to support that, I'm simply factoring in Offensive fouls, non shooting fouls and And 1s. Odom and Gasol together average 9.7 FTAs per game, divided by 1.6 FTAs per foul committed, we get 6.06 fouls drawn on the opposing team's big men. Divided by 2 big men that's around 3 personals a game for each big man. I'll agree that I haven't watched Lakers as much as you have, but from what I have seen during regular season, post season and the stats I saw, no where do I see proof that getting opposing team's big men into foul trouble is one of the main strategies of the Lakers. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bowen gets away with plenty on the court, but I wouldn't isolate this matchup. I felt Gasol and Odom weren't getting the benefit of the whistle at all in the series against Duncan and it restricted the amount of opportunities to get the Spurs team into early foul trouble. If you pay attention to Duncan, he uses his off hand illegally by pushing a players hip, digging an elbow into the midsection, or grabbing his man's jersey around the belly area. In real time motion it's tough to catch his tricks, but on replays it's clear to see how much fouling he's actually getting away with. A majority of the time the officials are watching his other arm which is extended up and trying to contest the shot. They don't see the work he's doing with his other hand to keep the offensive player off balance.</div>I've responded to this in a previous post. Duncan is not doing anything other big men aren't doing. No one has ever claimed Duncan is a dirty defender. If you think no one else pushes people in hips, uses elbows to move the opponent or sometimes grab the jersey, you're just crazy. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers ran their offense through Pau in the post in their half court sets. He had a lot of 1 on 1 opportunities against Duncan. When Pau would make his initial move Duncan fouls him almost every time, but because Duncan has a "reputation" for being a good defender he gets the benefit of the whistle. Gasol couldn't make the adjustment to his game until PJax pointed it out to him and told him to ignore the lack of calls and just power through Duncan. PJax went on to call him a weenie, and Gasol made the adjustment physically and mentally in Game 4 to outplay Duncan. I think Gasol had 4 or 5 offensive rebounds in the 1st quarter. In Game 5 he posted a career high 19 rebounds against Duncan.</div>I don't know where you're seeing Pau going 1v1 at Duncan. I watched every game, and barely ever did Pau attempt to go at Duncan. Right.. Duncan fouls him almost every time. You know, refs can blow calls. But refs don't blow EVERY call. Considering they are experts at calling fouls, and you are not, I would say that you just don't understand what's a foul and what isn't. I'm not trying to be condescending at all. But when you think there's a foul every time, and it NEVER gets called, chances are you're just not understanding what is a foul and what isn't. It's just logic. How does Gasol's desire to play more physical demonstrate that Duncan was getting away with calls? Gasol got outworked and outplayed for most of the series. Sometime he finally decided to shed his reputation of a sissy for a couple of quarters. Props to Gasol. But that has nothing to do with Duncan. When Duncan was iso'd against him, and he ran at him, he got calls. As soon as Gasol started doing the same, he got calls as well. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I know every big man does those moves, but the difference is the officials are more liberal with what they allow him to get away with. Who said anything about calling Duncan dirty?</div>You do realize this forever will be an opinion, right? Some people feel that the players do the same moves and they get treated differently, in other words, get "superstar" treatment. I've always thought that superstars get treated differently because of what they do, not who they are. For example, LeBron gets so many continuations because he has amazing body control that allows him to throw his big body around and get the calls. Sure, other people can do that, but others aren't built like him, nor can they control their body like him. Is it his fault he's built better than others? Duncan plays smarter than 95% of big men in the league. When he drags the ball through Turiaf's hands and Turiaf gets called for a mostly BS fault, is it his fault that Turiaf doesn't know about that move? Duncan is a superstar because he knows these things. Should Duncan be punished because he knows that Gasol shies away from contact and looks tentative? He goes at Gasol every time because he knows that Gasol's actions usually make the ref call the foul on him. I'm sure players get treated as superstars when it comes to fouls, but a lot of it has to do with those players KNOWING what a ref looks for. All players aren't created equal. Moves aren't the same. Ginobili can move his body in a way that he gets an And 1. Another player can pull off almost the same move and get called for a charge. Ginobili doesn't get calls because the refs know him. He gets calls because he knows the refs. Huevon, unless you have something tangible to contribute besides insults, don't bother.
I probably haven't watched enough Lakers games, but I've considered Rondo to be the better PG. He's really impressed me in these playoffs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Huevon, unless you have something tangible to contribute besides insults, don't bother.</div> Ew guy relax, you're not that important. Don't ****ing lecture to me about insults either. You couldn't come up with anything tangible against me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 1 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You did it to yourselves when you had to take LeBron, even though he was slumping, to seven games. Along with the Hawks. Don't ask for Laker Fans to be scared enough to predict against their own team.</div> Thats where you're wrong huevonkiller. I'm not asking you to pick against the Lakers, all I'm asking is to give some respect, like I'm giving the Lakers, which are a great team (and have the best player on earth), but all I see here is we're going to win easily, Boston is a weak team, Lakers in 5, etc etc. Just be fair, is all I ask.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ May 31 2008, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 1 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You did it to yourselves when you had to take LeBron, even though he was slumping, to seven games. Along with the Hawks. Don't ask for Laker Fans to be scared enough to predict against their own team.</div> Thats where you're wrong huevonkiller. I'm not asking you to pick against the Lakers, all I'm asking is to give some respect, like I'm giving the Lakers, which are a great team (and have the best player on earth), but all I see here is we're going to win easily, Boston is a weak team, Lakers in 5, etc etc. Just be fair, is all I ask. </div> Lakers in 6 sounds like respect. We're a great team.
CelticKing, personally, I believe this will be a long series. Mamba seems like he's really confident. I wish I had the same confidence in this team as he does, but I don't think I do. This will be a long, grueling series. I'm sure the Celtics will put up a great fight. Paul Pierce has been beasting this postseason, and I don't expect him to stop. Also, Ray Allen seems to have finally found his shot. The Celtics are a very dangerous team, but the reason why I'm picking the Lakers, is because of the coaching. When was the last time a "mediocre" coach won the championship? No offense or anything, but I personally believe Doc Rivers is a lame duck coach. You give any coach a trio of Pierce/Allen/Garnett and I'm sure they will be able to have tons of success in the regular season as well. But when you start playing in a seven game series, teams will make adjustments. That is where I believe we will have the upper hand. Phil Jackson will coach circles around Doc, and ultimately, that is how I see the series being won. Anyways, best of luck to both teams. The Celtics have come this far, and I'm sure they won't just "fold" against us. This will be a hard fought series, and may the best team win
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll agree that I haven't watched Lakers as much as you have, but from what I have seen during regular season, post season and the stats I saw, no where do I see proof that getting opposing team's big men into foul trouble is one of the main strategies of the Lakers.</div> Duncan averaged 8.8 FTA's a game. The only game he got 4 was the one blowout against LA where he only played 32 minutes. There is no question he was overzealous in the post, you've already basically admitted it by saying he knows how to "sell it". <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know where you're seeing Pau going 1v1 at Duncan. I watched every game, and barely ever did Pau attempt to go at Duncan. Right.. Duncan fouls him almost every time. You know, refs can blow calls. But refs don't blow EVERY call. Considering they are experts at calling fouls, and you are not, I would say that you just don't understand what's a foul and what isn't. I'm not trying to be condescending at all. But when you think there's a foul every time, and it NEVER gets called, chances are you're just not understanding what is a foul and what isn't. It's just logic. How does Gasol's desire to play more physical demonstrate that Duncan was getting away with calls? Gasol got outworked and outplayed for most of the series. Sometime he finally decided to shed his reputation of a sissy for a couple of quarters. Props to Gasol. But that has nothing to do with Duncan. When Duncan was iso'd against him, and he ran at him, he got calls. As soon as Gasol started doing the same, he got calls as well.</div> Why should Duncan get this star treatment when Kobe was attacking the basket at will in Games 1, 4, and 5? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You do realize this forever will be an opinion, right? Some people feel that the players do the same moves and they get treated differently, in other words, get "superstar" treatment. I've always thought that superstars get treated differently because of what they do, not who they are. For example, LeBron gets so many continuations because he has amazing body control that allows him to throw his big body around and get the calls. Sure, other people can do that, but others aren't built like him, nor can they control their body like him. Is it his fault he's built better than others? Duncan plays smarter than 95% of big men in the league. When he drags the ball through Turiaf's hands and Turiaf gets called for a mostly BS fault, is it his fault that Turiaf doesn't know about that move? Duncan is a superstar because he knows these things. Should Duncan be punished because he knows that Gasol shies away from contact and looks tentative? He goes at Gasol every time because he knows that Gasol's actions usually make the ref call the foul on him.</div> Kobe didn't get away with anything. He was punished in comparison to Duncan, why should he? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure players get treated as superstars when it comes to fouls, but a lot of it has to do with those players KNOWING what a ref looks for. All players aren't created equal. Moves aren't the same. Ginobili can move his body in a way that he gets an And 1. Another player can pull off almost the same move and get called for a charge. Ginobili doesn't get calls because the refs know him. He gets calls because he knows the refs.</div> Kobe Bryant knows exactly what refs are looking for. You do not have the ability to justify superstar treatment on one side. Straight up hypocrisy.
^ I personally think either team will be able to win in 6 or 7. Nothing less than that. Big chance it'll go 7, unless either team is able to win 2 away games (before the series goes to 7) and end up winning in 6. It'll be better than watching Spurs-Pistons, thats for sure.
Well Phil Jackson has set up a clearly better system than Doc Rivers has. Phil Jackson has better spacing, with guys like Fisher, Vujacic, Radman, and Kobe on the perimeter, they provide spacing so if Pau, Odom, or Kobe want to work the opponent has to respect Fisher and Vujacic or else they will hit the 3. As well Pau or Odom will each rotate to the high post, which pulls the big man so the other big man can work or Kobe can cut. Phil Jackson > Doc Rivers. Lakers in 6
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jun 1 2008, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^ I personally think either team will be able to win in 6 or 7. Nothing less than that. Big chance it'll go 7, unless either team is able to win 2 away games (before the series goes to 7) and end up winning in 6. It'll be better than watching Spurs-Pistons, thats for sure. </div> It's also entirely possible and likely (with the 2-3-2 format) for the Lakers to win in 5. Especially if they win one of the first two games, and go on a roll from there with the 3 games in a row at home. To be honest, I'm not sure I really like that format...because it seems as if it gives an advantage to the team with the lesser record, with the 3 games in a row at home. One thing's for sure, though, it won't be a sweep haha
Not counting the intentional fouls, the Spurs led in free throws in 4 out of the five games. Kobe was especially screwed out of a few FTs in those hot second halves of his.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ May 31 2008, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll agree that I haven't watched Lakers as much as you have, but from what I have seen during regular season, post season and the stats I saw, no where do I see proof that getting opposing team's big men into foul trouble is one of the main strategies of the Lakers.</div> Duncan averaged 8.8 FTA's a game. The only game he got 4 was the one blowout against LA where he only played 32 minutes. There is no question he was overzealous in the post, you've already basically admitted it by saying he knows how to "sell it". </div> You misread the post. Shape's argument was that Lakers get the opposing team's big men into foul trouble. Duncan's FTAs are the sign of the exact opposite of what we're talking about. Yeah, and I think his overzealousness is what hurt Spurs. Yes, Duncan did get Gasol into foul trouble and he did get to shoot FTs, but he often made the offense stagnant or he just plain lost the ball. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know where you're seeing Pau going 1v1 at Duncan. I watched every game, and barely ever did Pau attempt to go at Duncan. Right.. Duncan fouls him almost every time. You know, refs can blow calls. But refs don't blow EVERY call. Considering they are experts at calling fouls, and you are not, I would say that you just don't understand what's a foul and what isn't. I'm not trying to be condescending at all. But when you think there's a foul every time, and it NEVER gets called, chances are you're just not understanding what is a foul and what isn't. It's just logic. How does Gasol's desire to play more physical demonstrate that Duncan was getting away with calls? Gasol got outworked and outplayed for most of the series. Sometime he finally decided to shed his reputation of a sissy for a couple of quarters. Props to Gasol. But that has nothing to do with Duncan. When Duncan was iso'd against him, and he ran at him, he got calls. As soon as Gasol started doing the same, he got calls as well.</div> Why should Duncan get this star treatment when Kobe was attacking the basket at will in Games 1, 4, and 5?</div>That's where we agreed to disagree. I saw Kobe shoot a LOT of jumpers because of the excellent job Spurs were doing keeping him out of the lane. It's like any time he tried to drive from any wing, 2 or 3 Spurs converged on him and made a wall somewhere around the FT line. It was very successful strategy. Kobe gets plenty of star treatment. Heh, just ask the Jazz. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You do realize this forever will be an opinion, right? Some people feel that the players do the same moves and they get treated differently, in other words, get "superstar" treatment. I've always thought that superstars get treated differently because of what they do, not who they are. For example, LeBron gets so many continuations because he has amazing body control that allows him to throw his big body around and get the calls. Sure, other people can do that, but others aren't built like him, nor can they control their body like him. Is it his fault he's built better than others? Duncan plays smarter than 95% of big men in the league. When he drags the ball through Turiaf's hands and Turiaf gets called for a mostly BS fault, is it his fault that Turiaf doesn't know about that move? Duncan is a superstar because he knows these things. Should Duncan be punished because he knows that Gasol shies away from contact and looks tentative? He goes at Gasol every time because he knows that Gasol's actions usually make the ref call the foul on him.</div> Kobe didn't get away with anything. He was punished in comparison to Duncan, why should he?</div> I don't see where he was punished. Duncan worked inside, muscling Turiaf and Gasol time after time. Of course he's gonna draw fouls against players who are less physical and smaller than him. Remember, he just came through New Orleans' Tyson Chandler, who's bigger than him and an excellent defender, plus they doubled him around 40-50% of the time. Lakers were very careful about doubling him. That's why he had so many good games. If only Manu woke the hell up, this could have been a better series. Kobe shot a lot of jumpers, and he's defended by an All-NBA defender who has studied his game. Bowen has a reputation of playing Bryant tough. Kobe's jumpers were falling though - sucks to be Bowen, heh. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure players get treated as superstars when it comes to fouls, but a lot of it has to do with those players KNOWING what a ref looks for. All players aren't created equal. Moves aren't the same. Ginobili can move his body in a way that he gets an And 1. Another player can pull off almost the same move and get called for a charge. Ginobili doesn't get calls because the refs know him. He gets calls because he knows the refs.</div> Kobe Bryant knows exactly what refs are looking for. You do not have the ability to justify superstar treatment on one side. Straight up hypocrisy. </div> How is it hypocrisy? I've been adamant about the fact that I saw Kobe shoot a lot of jumpers. Every time he tried to get into the lane there was a wall put up. He passed on many shots, and the ones he took weren't "foul me" shots. Kobe barely had a chance to get physical with anyone. Duncan went 1v1 and ran at anyone who was defending him. Kobe was raining jumpers. Kobe shot a high %, but that's a testament of how great he is of a shooter rather than him getting off high % shots against the Spurs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brian @ May 31 2008, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>CelticKing, personally, I believe this will be a long series. Mamba seems like he's really confident. I wish I had the same confidence in this team as he does, but I don't think I do. This will be a long, grueling series. I'm sure the Celtics will put up a great fight. Paul Pierce has been beasting this postseason, and I don't expect him to stop. Also, Ray Allen seems to have finally found his shot. The Celtics are a very dangerous team, but the reason why I'm picking the Lakers, is because of the coaching. When was the last time a "mediocre" coach won the championship? No offense or anything, but I personally believe Doc Rivers is a lame duck coach. You give any coach a trio of Pierce/Allen/Garnett and I'm sure they will be able to have tons of success in the regular season as well. But when you start playing in a seven game series, teams will make adjustments. That is where I believe we will have the upper hand. Phil Jackson will coach circles around Doc, and ultimately, that is how I see the series being won. Anyways, best of luck to both teams. The Celtics have come this far, and I'm sure they won't just "fold" against us. This will be a hard fought series, and may the best team win</div> Great, great post. I'm betting on LA as well, but C's are a dangerous team. Ultimate, the coaching difference will be highly apparent. Although to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if LA swept this. If Allen shoots poorly the first game, which I think he will, LA can steal game 1. After that, as Brian said, Zen Master will "coach circles" around Doc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 31 2008, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.</div> I don't believe in any conspiracy theories, but Kobe's lack of free throw attempts had a lot to do with the way the officials protected Duncan on defense against Gasol. A majority of Kobe's free throws come as a result of the opposing team getting into early foul trouble and into the penalty. Once the opposing team is in the penalty it doesn't matter where Kobe is on the court or if he's shooting or not, if you foul him he's shooting two shots. This is when Kobe gets extra aggressive on offense because he knows the defender has to back off more.</div> I'm not sure what you mean. What does Kobe's lack of FTs have to do with official's treatment of Duncan on defense against Gasol. Are you saying that Lakers big men typically get their opponents into foul trouble, thus highlighting the need for Kobe to be aggressive? For one, that's an incredibly general strategy. Two, LA big men don't draw that many fouls. In fact, they drew more fouls in their previous teams. For example, Odom has shot 4.3 FTAs this season as compared to 4.7 for his career. Gasol shot 5.4 FTAs this season, down from 6.6 for his career. If we do some general rounding, let's assume that a player gets about 1.6 foul shots per each personal foul committed. I have no data to support that, I'm simply factoring in Offensive fouls, non shooting fouls and And 1s. Odom and Gasol together average 9.7 FTAs per game, divided by 1.6 FTAs per foul committed, we get 6.06 fouls drawn on the opposing team's big men. Divided by 2 big men that's around 3 personals a game for each big man. I'll agree that I haven't watched Lakers as much as you have, but from what I have seen during regular season, post season and the stats I saw, no where do I see proof that getting opposing team's big men into foul trouble is one of the main strategies of the Lakers. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bowen gets away with plenty on the court, but I wouldn't isolate this matchup. I felt Gasol and Odom weren't getting the benefit of the whistle at all in the series against Duncan and it restricted the amount of opportunities to get the Spurs team into early foul trouble. If you pay attention to Duncan, he uses his off hand illegally by pushing a players hip, digging an elbow into the midsection, or grabbing his man's jersey around the belly area. In real time motion it's tough to catch his tricks, but on replays it's clear to see how much fouling he's actually getting away with. A majority of the time the officials are watching his other arm which is extended up and trying to contest the shot. They don't see the work he's doing with his other hand to keep the offensive player off balance.</div>I've responded to this in a previous post. Duncan is not doing anything other big men aren't doing. No one has ever claimed Duncan is a dirty defender. If you think no one else pushes people in hips, uses elbows to move the opponent or sometimes grab the jersey, you're just crazy. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers ran their offense through Pau in the post in their half court sets. He had a lot of 1 on 1 opportunities against Duncan. When Pau would make his initial move Duncan fouls him almost every time, but because Duncan has a "reputation" for being a good defender he gets the benefit of the whistle. Gasol couldn't make the adjustment to his game until PJax pointed it out to him and told him to ignore the lack of calls and just power through Duncan. PJax went on to call him a weenie, and Gasol made the adjustment physically and mentally in Game 4 to outplay Duncan. I think Gasol had 4 or 5 offensive rebounds in the 1st quarter. In Game 5 he posted a career high 19 rebounds against Duncan.</div>I don't know where you're seeing Pau going 1v1 at Duncan. I watched every game, and barely ever did Pau attempt to go at Duncan. Right.. Duncan fouls him almost every time. You know, refs can blow calls. But refs don't blow EVERY call. Considering they are experts at calling fouls, and you are not, I would say that you just don't understand what's a foul and what isn't. I'm not trying to be condescending at all. But when you think there's a foul every time, and it NEVER gets called, chances are you're just not understanding what is a foul and what isn't. It's just logic. How does Gasol's desire to play more physical demonstrate that Duncan was getting away with calls? Gasol got outworked and outplayed for most of the series. Sometime he finally decided to shed his reputation of a sissy for a couple of quarters. Props to Gasol. But that has nothing to do with Duncan. When Duncan was iso'd against him, and he ran at him, he got calls. As soon as Gasol started doing the same, he got calls as well. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I know every big man does those moves, but the difference is the officials are more liberal with what they allow him to get away with. Who said anything about calling Duncan dirty?</div>You do realize this forever will be an opinion, right? Some people feel that the players do the same moves and they get treated differently, in other words, get "superstar" treatment. I've always thought that superstars get treated differently because of what they do, not who they are. For example, LeBron gets so many continuations because he has amazing body control that allows him to throw his big body around and get the calls. Sure, other people can do that, but others aren't built like him, nor can they control their body like him. Is it his fault he's built better than others? Duncan plays smarter than 95% of big men in the league. When he drags the ball through Turiaf's hands and Turiaf gets called for a mostly BS fault, is it his fault that Turiaf doesn't know about that move? Duncan is a superstar because he knows these things. Should Duncan be punished because he knows that Gasol shies away from contact and looks tentative? He goes at Gasol every time because he knows that Gasol's actions usually make the ref call the foul on him. I'm sure players get treated as superstars when it comes to fouls, but a lot of it has to do with those players KNOWING what a ref looks for. All players aren't created equal. Moves aren't the same. Ginobili can move his body in a way that he gets an And 1. Another player can pull off almost the same move and get called for a charge. Ginobili doesn't get calls because the refs know him. He gets calls because he knows the refs. Huevon, unless you have something tangible to contribute besides insults, don't bother. </div> You're giving all the credit to Duncan and Bowen for "knowing what refs look for," but no credit for Gasol and Kobe not knowing what to look for? The Lakers strategy isn't to simply dump the ball in the post and let Gasol go one on one to draw fouls on San Antonio's big men. You've insinuated this twice now without merit. The Triangle offense is designed to get the defense off balance by moving the ball around and forcing teams to get burned when they send a double team over. When a defense has to scramble and chase the ball or player slashing down the lane it usually results in fouls. Another flaw in your logic is equating drawing fouls to shooting free throws. Players can draw fouls without going to the free throw line if they're not in the act of shooting. Regular season Pau Gasol draws fouls at a rate of 16.3% Lamar Odom draws foulst at a rate of 15.9% To put it in perspective for you they both draws fouls at a higher rate than Kobe (15.5%) and Ginobili (13.2%) Tim Duncan is right there with 16% In the playoffs Gasol is at 15.3% and Odom has an outstanding 21.8% rate of drawing fouls. Duncan who "knows what refs are looking for" is below both of them at 15.2% Ginobili is at a sub-par 9.7% You watch the games again when Gasol has iso against Duncan. In the regular season the initial hit Duncan gives Pau would be a defensive foul majority of the time. In the playoffs the refs let the games be more physical and since Gasol never got this deep in the playoffs before he didn't know how to adjust his game to the more physical nature and in Duncan's case extra physical nature. It's not about blowing the call, it's about the refs being in the proper position to see a foul and be willing to make a tough call against an established player. When Duncan picked up an early quick foul in the game the refs were very reluctant to give him another foul. I agree players know how to draw fouls on other players like your example of Duncan on Turiaf. However, I think you're shortchanging how good a player Gasol is and how fundamental his footwork and offense is to draw fouls on his opponents. He simply wasn't getting the benefit of the whistle against Duncan even though he has a higher rate of being able to draw fouls than Duncan had in the regular season and post season.
Damn you bastard Shape, you beat me. I have to give credit when it is deserved though, in this thread you're kicking my ass too, City! And for the record Astral, I don't think Kobe should easily be shooting 8-9 FTs a game, but 11 throughout the series was ridiculous to me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 1 2008, 02:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's where we agreed to disagree. I saw Kobe shoot a LOT of jumpers because of the excellent job Spurs were doing keeping him out of the lane. It's like any time he tried to drive from any wing, 2 or 3 Spurs converged on him and made a wall somewhere around the FT line. It was very successful strategy. Kobe gets plenty of star treatment. Heh, just ask the Jazz.</div> He drove much more to the basket in that series, Utah did not do as good a job. Well at least the Jazz were mostly allowed to let Boozer hack away at will. I'm all for ticky tack fouls if it is called on both sides. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't see where he was punished. Duncan worked inside, muscling Turiaf and Gasol time after time. Of course he's gonna draw fouls against players who are less physical and smaller than him. Remember, he just came through New Orleans' Tyson Chandler, who's bigger than him and an excellent defender, plus they doubled him around 40-50% of the time. Lakers were very careful about doubling him. That's why he had so many good games. If only Manu woke the hell up, this could have been a better series. Kobe shot a lot of jumpers, and he's defended by an All-NBA defender who has studied his game. Bowen has a reputation of playing Bryant tough. Kobe's jumpers were falling though - sucks to be Bowen, heh.</div> I do not approve of Duncan being able to Boozer Pau out of position. He should indeed be rewarded with calls for how he performed, but that brings me back to my previous point above. I would say that Bowen gets away with calls precisely because of his reputation. There is no doubt he did an admirable job, but it is the flexibility given to him by the officials that I disagree with. Kobe did shoot a lot of jumpers at times, and was refused FTs after starting the game slowly, especially in Games 1 and 5. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>How is it hypocrisy? I've been adamant about the fact that I saw Kobe shoot a lot of jumpers. Every time he tried to get into the lane there was a wall put up. He passed on many shots, and the ones he took weren't "foul me" shots. Kobe barely had a chance to get physical with anyone. Duncan went 1v1 and ran at anyone who was defending him. Kobe was raining jumpers. Kobe shot a high %, but that's a testament of how great he is of a shooter rather than him getting off high % shots against the Spurs.</div> Kobe goes into stretches where your description is accurate. To have Udoka shoot more FTs in Game 3 is pretty sad though. For example, he got fouled in the act of shooting in Game 5 and the refs made the Lakers take the ball out of bounds; this was in his hot fourth quarter. He couldn't buy a call when he was red hot in the opening and closing games of this series. The way the Lakers broke from the Triangle was interesting though, it gave Kobe room to attack the basket by setting up a Big Man at the top of the key, and that is an example of when he should have been rewarded.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jun 1 2008, 02:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ May 31 2008, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ May 31 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the referees of all 5 (five) games are bought by the league and told not to call any fouls on the Spur who is defending Bryant, specifically because NBA hates him. You're right, this makes so much more sense than the fact that Bryant shot JUMPERS, his opponent's main strategy was NOT to foul him, and the reason Duncan shot a ton more free throws is because his main defenders have a reputation of a soft, horrible defenders. It's not that Kobe was defended by Bowen, an All-Defensive first teamer, while Duncan was defended by Gasol, Turiaf and Odom. No no no. How can I be so silly. Of course, NBA is rigged. Timmy is protected. No, by all means, continue to say that NBA is rigged when a damn 6 year old can come up with a logical explanation. Nowhere in my statement did I say that Posey will shut him down. I said that if he and PJ can work their magic for half a game, LA can be in trouble. Celtics have excellent team defense which should limit the Lakers offensively in general. They also have the firepower to go toe-toe-toe with them offensively. Celtics are a soft team. But they've played tough when they needed to. Don't dismiss them so easily.</div> I don't believe in any conspiracy theories, but Kobe's lack of free throw attempts had a lot to do with the way the officials protected Duncan on defense against Gasol. A majority of Kobe's free throws come as a result of the opposing team getting into early foul trouble and into the penalty. Once the opposing team is in the penalty it doesn't matter where Kobe is on the court or if he's shooting or not, if you foul him he's shooting two shots. This is when Kobe gets extra aggressive on offense because he knows the defender has to back off more.</div> I'm not sure what you mean. What does Kobe's lack of FTs have to do with official's treatment of Duncan on defense against Gasol. Are you saying that Lakers big men typically get their opponents into foul trouble, thus highlighting the need for Kobe to be aggressive? For one, that's an incredibly general strategy. Two, LA big men don't draw that many fouls. In fact, they drew more fouls in their previous teams. For example, Odom has shot 4.3 FTAs this season as compared to 4.7 for his career. Gasol shot 5.4 FTAs this season, down from 6.6 for his career. If we do some general rounding, let's assume that a player gets about 1.6 foul shots per each personal foul committed. I have no data to support that, I'm simply factoring in Offensive fouls, non shooting fouls and And 1s. Odom and Gasol together average 9.7 FTAs per game, divided by 1.6 FTAs per foul committed, we get 6.06 fouls drawn on the opposing team's big men. Divided by 2 big men that's around 3 personals a game for each big man. I'll agree that I haven't watched Lakers as much as you have, but from what I have seen during regular season, post season and the stats I saw, no where do I see proof that getting opposing team's big men into foul trouble is one of the main strategies of the Lakers. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bowen gets away with plenty on the court, but I wouldn't isolate this matchup. I felt Gasol and Odom weren't getting the benefit of the whistle at all in the series against Duncan and it restricted the amount of opportunities to get the Spurs team into early foul trouble. If you pay attention to Duncan, he uses his off hand illegally by pushing a players hip, digging an elbow into the midsection, or grabbing his man's jersey around the belly area. In real time motion it's tough to catch his tricks, but on replays it's clear to see how much fouling he's actually getting away with. A majority of the time the officials are watching his other arm which is extended up and trying to contest the shot. They don't see the work he's doing with his other hand to keep the offensive player off balance.</div>I've responded to this in a previous post. Duncan is not doing anything other big men aren't doing. No one has ever claimed Duncan is a dirty defender. If you think no one else pushes people in hips, uses elbows to move the opponent or sometimes grab the jersey, you're just crazy. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers ran their offense through Pau in the post in their half court sets. He had a lot of 1 on 1 opportunities against Duncan. When Pau would make his initial move Duncan fouls him almost every time, but because Duncan has a "reputation" for being a good defender he gets the benefit of the whistle. Gasol couldn't make the adjustment to his game until PJax pointed it out to him and told him to ignore the lack of calls and just power through Duncan. PJax went on to call him a weenie, and Gasol made the adjustment physically and mentally in Game 4 to outplay Duncan. I think Gasol had 4 or 5 offensive rebounds in the 1st quarter. In Game 5 he posted a career high 19 rebounds against Duncan.</div>I don't know where you're seeing Pau going 1v1 at Duncan. I watched every game, and barely ever did Pau attempt to go at Duncan. Right.. Duncan fouls him almost every time. You know, refs can blow calls. But refs don't blow EVERY call. Considering they are experts at calling fouls, and you are not, I would say that you just don't understand what's a foul and what isn't. I'm not trying to be condescending at all. But when you think there's a foul every time, and it NEVER gets called, chances are you're just not understanding what is a foul and what isn't. It's just logic. How does Gasol's desire to play more physical demonstrate that Duncan was getting away with calls? Gasol got outworked and outplayed for most of the series. Sometime he finally decided to shed his reputation of a sissy for a couple of quarters. Props to Gasol. But that has nothing to do with Duncan. When Duncan was iso'd against him, and he ran at him, he got calls. As soon as Gasol started doing the same, he got calls as well. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I know every big man does those moves, but the difference is the officials are more liberal with what they allow him to get away with. Who said anything about calling Duncan dirty?</div>You do realize this forever will be an opinion, right? Some people feel that the players do the same moves and they get treated differently, in other words, get "superstar" treatment. I've always thought that superstars get treated differently because of what they do, not who they are. For example, LeBron gets so many continuations because he has amazing body control that allows him to throw his big body around and get the calls. Sure, other people can do that, but others aren't built like him, nor can they control their body like him. Is it his fault he's built better than others? Duncan plays smarter than 95% of big men in the league. When he drags the ball through Turiaf's hands and Turiaf gets called for a mostly BS fault, is it his fault that Turiaf doesn't know about that move? Duncan is a superstar because he knows these things. Should Duncan be punished because he knows that Gasol shies away from contact and looks tentative? He goes at Gasol every time because he knows that Gasol's actions usually make the ref call the foul on him. I'm sure players get treated as superstars when it comes to fouls, but a lot of it has to do with those players KNOWING what a ref looks for. All players aren't created equal. Moves aren't the same. Ginobili can move his body in a way that he gets an And 1. Another player can pull off almost the same move and get called for a charge. Ginobili doesn't get calls because the refs know him. He gets calls because he knows the refs. Huevon, unless you have something tangible to contribute besides insults, don't bother. </div> You're giving all the credit to Duncan and Bowen for "knowing what refs look for," but no credit for Gasol and Kobe not knowing what to look for? </div> Never said that. I stated that 1) Gasol is outclassed by Duncan in that Duncan is more physical and a better defender. 2) Spurs' whole defensive scheme revolved around not letting Kobe get into the lane. I've said this about 5 times now. There is a difference between not being skilled enough and the opponent not letting you. As an example, New Orleans shut down Duncan for long stretches of that series, but SA had Parker and Gino to win the series for them. Do you see me complaining that Duncan wasn't getting calls? No. When a team's strategy revolves around not letting you do something, there is very little you can do about it, if the team has the right personnel. In this series, LA did an absolutely terrific job defending Parker and Gino, even though the latter was slown down by injuries. But because of that focus, Duncan had a much easier path towards the basket than usual. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Lakers strategy isn't to simply dump the ball in the post and let Gasol go one on one to draw fouls on San Antonio's big men. You've insinuated this twice now without merit. The Triangle offense is designed to get the defense off balance by moving the ball around and forcing teams to get burned when they send a double team over. When a defense has to scramble and chase the ball or player slashing down the lane it usually results in fouls.</div> Uhm. I've no idea where you're getting this. Because I, in fact, said that Lakers did NOT dump the ball to Gasol to go 1 on 1 against Duncan a lot, which explained why Gasol didnt get calls against Duncan. They should have. I don't count <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Another flaw in your logic is equating drawing fouls to shooting free throws. Players can draw fouls without going to the free throw line if they're not in the act of shooting.</div> If you're not gonna read my posts fully, why are you arguing with me? Please re-read this. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If we do some general rounding, let's assume that a player gets about 1.6 foul shots per each personal foul committed. I have no data to support that, I'm simply factoring in Offensive fouls, non shooting fouls and And 1s. Odom and Gasol together average 9.7 FTAs per game, divided by 1.6 FTAs per foul committed, we get 6.06 fouls drawn on the opposing team's big men. Divided by 2 big men that's around 3 personals a game for each big man. I'll agree that I haven't watched Lakers as much as you have, but from what I have seen during regular season, post season and the stats I saw, no where do I see proof that getting opposing team's big men into foul trouble is one of the main strategies of the Lakers.</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Regular season Pau Gasol draws fouls at a rate of 16.3% Lamar Odom draws foulst at a rate of 15.9% To put it in perspective for you they both draws fouls at a higher rate than Kobe (15.5%) and Ginobili (13.2%) Tim Duncan is right there with 16% In the playoffs Gasol is at 15.3% and Odom has an outstanding 21.8% rate of drawing fouls. Duncan who "knows what refs are looking for" is below both of them at 15.2% Ginobili is at a sub-par 9.7% You watch the games again when Gasol has iso against Duncan. In the regular season the initial hit Duncan gives Pau would be a defensive foul majority of the time. In the playoffs the refs let the games be more physical and since Gasol never got this deep in the playoffs before he didn't know how to adjust his game to the more physical nature and in Duncan's case extra physical nature.</div>@bold - Wrong. One, it's highly improbable that you're the ONLY one who sees this magic. No one has ever pointed it out. Chances are there are 5000 people who are smarter than both me and you. When you're the only one who sees something, you should seriously recheck your observations. Two, you're making it sound that every time Duncan played Gasol, he picked up 3 fouls in the first 2 minutes, when Duncan has NEVER got into foul trouble against Gasol. EVER. Here's a boxscore of one game: http://www.nba.com/games/20071031/SASMEM/boxscore.html in which Duncan picked up 2 personals. Here's another in which he picked up 3: http://www.nba.com/games/20071123/MEMSAS/boxscore.html Feel free to search more. Your argument is absolutely baseless. Pau Gasol never got Duncan into foul trouble, in regular season or the playoffs. Your argument that "it would have been a defensive foul majority of the time in the regular season" exists only in your head. Refs have never called that nor will they ever will. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>It's not about blowing the call, it's about the refs being in the proper position to see a foul and be willing to make a tough call against an established player. When Duncan picked up an early quick foul in the game the refs were very reluctant to give him another foul.</div> Right... because Duncan never encounters foul trouble, right? You said you don't believe in conspiracy theories, but right here you're agreeing with it. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I agree players know how to draw fouls on other players like your example of Duncan on Turiaf. However, I think you're shortchanging how good a player Gasol is and how fundamental his footwork and offense is to draw fouls on his opponents. He simply wasn't getting the benefit of the whistle against Duncan even though he has a higher rate of being able to draw fouls than Duncan had in the regular season and post season.</div>I'm not underestimating Gasol. But he IS a soft player, that is a league wide truth. If you dont believe me, go read some posts by your fellow Laker fans in the LA vs SA thread. Most of you called Odom and Gasol a sissy. Gasol is a very good player, but he's simply not the focus of the offense in LA, especially against SA. When he gets the ball, it's in the course of the ball rotation instituted by the triangle. LA offense simply doesn't revolve around ISOs. If Gasol got actual ISOs against Oberto and Duncan, he would have drawn more fouls, even though a lot of his moves would have been for naught because Duncan is a much better defender than Mr. Boozer, who scratches his ass on defense and Mr. Okur. That is why Gasol wasn't as effective against the Spurs scoring wise. Duncan presented a much tougher match up, and Phil Jackson intelligently scaled down on it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 1 2008, 02:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Damn you bastard Shape, you beat me. I have to give credit when it is deserved though, in this thread you're kicking my ass too, City! And for the record Astral, I don't think Kobe should easily be shooting 8-9 FTs a game, but 11 throughout the series was ridiculous to me.</div> Actually, I generally think that Kobe should shoot at least 7 or 8 FTAs. He's that good. There aren't many teams that can force him otherwise. The 11 FTAs against Utah was awesome though. Maybe Utah will realize they need a real stopper, not a weak side blocker. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 1 2008, 03:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 1 2008, 02:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's where we agreed to disagree. I saw Kobe shoot a LOT of jumpers because of the excellent job Spurs were doing keeping him out of the lane. It's like any time he tried to drive from any wing, 2 or 3 Spurs converged on him and made a wall somewhere around the FT line. It was very successful strategy. Kobe gets plenty of star treatment. Heh, just ask the Jazz.</div> He drove much more to the basket in that series, Utah did not do as good a job. Well at least the Jazz were mostly allowed to let Boozer hack away at will. I'm all for ticky tack fouls if it is called on both sides. </div> Yup. Utah tried to contain him, while SA seriously put up a wall every damn time someone drove the lane. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't see where he was punished. Duncan worked inside, muscling Turiaf and Gasol time after time. Of course he's gonna draw fouls against players who are less physical and smaller than him. Remember, he just came through New Orleans' Tyson Chandler, who's bigger than him and an excellent defender, plus they doubled him around 40-50% of the time. Lakers were very careful about doubling him. That's why he had so many good games. If only Manu woke the hell up, this could have been a better series. Kobe shot a lot of jumpers, and he's defended by an All-NBA defender who has studied his game. Bowen has a reputation of playing Bryant tough. Kobe's jumpers were falling though - sucks to be Bowen, heh.</div> I do not approve of Duncan being able to Boozer Pau out of position. He should indeed be rewarded with calls for how he performed, but that brings me back to my previous point above. I would say that Bowen gets away with calls precisely because of his reputation. There is no doubt he did an admirable job, but it is the flexibility given to him by the officials that I disagree with. Kobe did shoot a lot of jumpers at times, and was refused FTs after starting the game slowly, especially in Games 1 and 5. </div> Bro, when Kobe heated up in Game 1, he shot jumpers. I remember, because I was thinking "there goes the damn series right here". In Game 5, Kobe had a lot of dunks though. Bowen is a dirty defender, but he's also an excellent one. Saying he is an excellent defender because he's dirty is just unfair to him. I personally thought he did a good job on Kobe and didn't attempt anything spectacularly shady. In my opinion a ref will give Kobe the benefit of the doubt rather than Bowen in most cases. In worst case scenario, this is Bowen's defensive "reputation" vs. Kobe's superstar status. They should at least cancel each other out. There's no way Bowen gets better treatment than league MVP. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>How is it hypocrisy? I've been adamant about the fact that I saw Kobe shoot a lot of jumpers. Every time he tried to get into the lane there was a wall put up. He passed on many shots, and the ones he took weren't "foul me" shots. Kobe barely had a chance to get physical with anyone. Duncan went 1v1 and ran at anyone who was defending him. Kobe was raining jumpers. Kobe shot a high %, but that's a testament of how great he is of a shooter rather than him getting off high % shots against the Spurs.</div> Kobe goes into stretches where your description is accurate. To have Udoka shoot more FTs in Game 3 is pretty sad though. For example, he got fouled in the act of shooting in Game 5 and the refs made the Lakers take the ball out of bounds; this was in his hot fourth quarter. He couldn't buy a call when he was red hot in the opening and closing games of this series. The way the Lakers broke from the Triangle was interesting though, it gave Kobe room to attack the basket by setting up a Big Man at the top of the key, and that is an example of when he should have been rewarded. </div>Ok, honestly, I'm blanking out on the situations you describe. I remember the ball out of bounds scenario though, they ruled it was foul before the shot. Hey, honestly though, Barry's no-call was a lot worse than the Bryant one you're alluding to As for Udoka, dude, he made 1 out of 2 with 3 mins left in a blowout. :/
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe goes into stretches where your description is accurate. To have Udoka shoot more FTs in Game 3 is pretty sad though. For example, he got fouled in the act of shooting in Game 5 and the refs made the Lakers take the ball out of bounds; this was in his hot fourth quarter. He couldn't buy a call when he was red hot in the opening and closing games of this series.</div> I remember the shooting foul in Game 5, it was a tic tac kind of foul, but if it was a foul it was a shooting foul. Kobe maybe would have averaged 1-2 FT more per game if some of the 50-50s went his way. Kobe really wasn't very aggressive except for some stretches, and often times when he was aggressive it ended up being a jumper.
