<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love you Shape ("no" in response to you homophobic people...). You too Mamba.</div> What about Brian?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love you Shape ("no" in response to you homophobic people...). You too Mamba.</div> What about Brian? </div> Of course, just that I was referring to the people who were most recently addressing ill.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jun 18 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe is an easy target for Laker fans because we hold him to a higher standard, but the fact is Boston was determined not to let Kobe beat them. The Celtics basically took the blueprint the Spurs provided for them and improved on it. In the San Antonio series their goal was to keep Kobe on the perimeter and not foul him. Boston was better at it than San Antonio because of their athleticism on the court and team quickness. Kobe did his job of reading the defense and facilitating the offense through his teammates. The only way for him to get the freedom to drive to the rim was for his teammates to step up and hit open shots. To use a football analogy, if you have a stud RB and the defense puts 8 or 9 guys in the box he isn't going to produce crap. It's up to the QB and WRs to make plays and take the pressure off the front line. I keep hearing these analysts say Kobe deferred too, much and settled for jumpers, but they don't get any deeper into the breakdown of the game. I don't care how good a player is, if a team has three guys on you every time you start driving to the paint you aren't going to come out on top. Kobe's teammates weren't moving without the basketball and were not decisive or confident with their offense. In the pick and roll situation Gasol and Odom dogged it and didn't make aggressive cuts to the rim for Kobe to set them up for easy dunks and possible And1 plays. They either drifted to no man's land halfway between the basket and 3 point line, or made a half-assed attempt to get to the rim which allowed Boston's weakside help to recover and be in position to defend. The bottom line, the Lakers Big 3 weren't in the same class as Boston's Big 3 and our bench was completely outplayed the entire series. We only had one good performance by Sasha in just one game the entire series. The rest of the time the bench didn't do squat for us and coming into this series the Lakers bench was supposed to be an advantage for us. Lakers had no one to match up with James Posey and he killed us every time he stepped on the court. He was the difference maker the entire series for Boston and his teammates fed off him.</div> Shape, he's dubbed the "best player on the planet" so I don't see how we hold him at a higher standard than anyone else? My problem with him his that a player that talented and gifted who has such knowledge about the game should be able to make wiser decisions. This wasn't just one game or two games we played against the Celtics. We played them in the regular season, and 6 games in the Finals. Are you telling me he couldn't "FIGURE OUT" what Boston was doing? I put a very large blame on Phil Jackson and the rest of the coaching staff. They did very little coaching in the series and made horrible adjustments. Just horrible. You would think Phil would be hungry for that 10th ring to put him at the top, I guess not. Like instead of giving Ira Newble and Ariza more playign time, he just fuckin sits on his high horse and gives the bulk of the minutes to Luke and Radman, that ****ing pisses me off. Make some damn adjustments, how long was it going to take that Walton and Radman could not handle Pierce? I wanna know why the Lakers didn't consistently put 2 shooters (Sasha and Vlad for ex.) on both corners, and allow Kobe to penetrate to the hole, and if Boston collapses, then Kobe dishes out for the open shot. If Boston stays at home, Kobe can take his man and either get the foul or score in the paint. I know Kobe is human and he's not perfect, but he disappeared when the Lakers needed him most. This is two bad Finals performances now, so now I'm really questioning his ability in the Finals as of late. I mean god damn, we had a good team. We had a team that got us the best record in the west, and we beat 3 very formidable opponents who all won 50+ games this season. Kobe sure as hell did not play like an MVP out there, he was a non factor just as much as Luke Walton. How he was not able to control Game 4 and gather up the team and stop Boston's run at our 24 point lead. Come on now, the best player in the world and the MVP of the league should be able to get us that Win... TWENTY FOUR POINTS, unbelievable. They stopped doing what was actually working in game 1 which was the pick & rolls with Kobe and Gasol, and Gasol and Odom feeding off each other. Kobe just kept doing what Boston wanted him to do, shoot those damn outside jumpers. If Kobe was more aggressive attacking, it would have helped our players tremendously. Our shooters did not have too many open shots this series. I don't see how Kobe read the defense that well as you stated.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 18 2008, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love you Shape ("no" in response to you homophobic people...). You too Mamba.</div> What about Brian? </div> Of course, just that I was referring to the people who were most recently addressing ill. </div> Dude, just shut up. I like how you make it a big deal and start the "I Love you's" at the people who were against me to try and single me out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (illmatic @ Jun 19 2008, 03:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 18 2008, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jun 18 2008, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 18 2008, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love you Shape ("no" in response to you homophobic people...). You too Mamba.</div> What about Brian? </div> Of course, just that I was referring to the people who were most recently addressing ill. </div> Dude, just shut up. I like how you make it a big deal and start the "I Love you's" at the people who were against me to try and single me out. </div> You're over-analyzing what I said. Dude, stop bitching. I loved Shape's post/points, it has nothing to do with you. I'm not going to give props to everyone I like in every single thread. It makes sense to give shout-outs to the most relevant people, I agree with, at the time.
Shape, and if you wanna talk strictly defense, how did both Atlanta and Cleveland take the Celtics to 7? C's have been known for their defense all year, starting in training camp, so it's not like their defense just finally "started clicking" in the Finals. I know Ray Allen was off the first couple series, but that doesn't explain why LeBron's subpar ass team was able to take the Celtics to 7, and the Kobe's WCF Lakers got their ass handed to them. Obviously LeBron made adjustments after that unbelievably horrible game 1 and 2.... LeBron Game 3 - 21 pts Game 4 - 21 pts Game 5 - 35 pts Game 6 - 32 pts Game 7 - 45 pts Even in a Game 7 on the road, LeBron came through for his team and scored 45 points. Granted he took poor shots late in the game that cost them, atleast he did his best. And LeBron's a baby in this league and doesn't have nearly the basketball smarts that Kobe has...He figured out, while Kobe is looking like a fool shooting fade-away jump shots all day.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (illmatic @ Jun 19 2008, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shape, and if you wanna talk strictly defense, how did both Atlanta and Cleveland take the Celtics to 7? C's have been known for their defense all year, starting in training camp, so it's not like their defense just finally "started clicking" in the Finals. I know Ray Allen was off the first couple series, but that doesn't explain why LeBron's subpar ass team was able to take the Celtics to 7, and the Kobe's WCF Lakers got their ass handed to them. Obviously LeBron made adjustments after that unbelievably horrible game 1 and 2.... LeBron Game 3 - 21 pts Game 4 - 21 pts Game 5 - 35 pts Game 6 - 32 pts Game 7 - 45 pts Even in a Game 7 on the road, LeBron came through for his team and scored 45 points. Granted he took poor shots late in the game that cost them, atleast he did his best. And LeBron's a baby in this league and doesn't have nearly the basketball smarts that Kobe has...He figured out, while Kobe is looking like a fool shooting fade-away jump shots all day.</div> You're telling half the story. The reason Atlanta and Cleveland took Boston to 7 games is because Boston was inexperienced. There is nothing else. They didn't play nearly as well as they did vs. LA or Detroit. As they kept winning they got more confidence and greatly improved on their play. This is the EXACT reason so many experts picked LA to win - they didn't believe that the Boston team that took 7 games to beat the lowly Hawks could pose a challenge to the power house that just beat the defending Champs. They missed a lot of the signs. Also, LeBron had a horrible shooting series. That's a fact. Historically horrible. The reason he was able to explode is because he's huge and physical. Most people don't realize how physical LeBron is. He's 6'8" and at least 250 pounds. Half the CENTERS in this league don't weigh 250 pounds. When Kobe drove the lane, he saw 3 defenders in the lane, and what is he supposed to do? He's 6'6" 205-210 pound prototypical NBA guard. He made the right pass. His teammate didn't convert. When LeBron saw the same thing, he simply beat the forward who was defending him off the dribble and then overpowered the guard. "I was built for this. I'm not 6-9, 260 pounds to shoot jump shots. I go to the hole and create contact. Don't ever think that I'm the only one feeling contact."
That's fair, but Kobe isn't the greatest because he is a great jumpshooter, he is such an all-around great player that can do it all. Yeah I know he isn't physical specimen like LeBron, but he can do his fair share of taking it the hole and being aggressive that way. As far as Atlana and Cleveland are concerned, I was talking strictly from a defensive standpoint. Because Boston was sucking, they had to rely on their defense to win them those games. So LeBron saw the same defense that Kobe saw, and you can't tell me LeBron has better players around him this time, Kobe could have and should have made something happen for us. He was the most valuable player...or so I thought.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (o.iatlhawksfan @ Jun 19 2008, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Artest said he's 99% sure he's not opting out.</div> Good, so we still have a 1% chance. [video=youtube;PTSi6Zd0vgg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSi6Zd0vgg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSi6Zd0vgg[/video]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (illmatic @ Jun 19 2008, 03:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jun 18 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe is an easy target for Laker fans because we hold him to a higher standard, but the fact is Boston was determined not to let Kobe beat them. The Celtics basically took the blueprint the Spurs provided for them and improved on it. In the San Antonio series their goal was to keep Kobe on the perimeter and not foul him. Boston was better at it than San Antonio because of their athleticism on the court and team quickness. Kobe did his job of reading the defense and facilitating the offense through his teammates. The only way for him to get the freedom to drive to the rim was for his teammates to step up and hit open shots. To use a football analogy, if you have a stud RB and the defense puts 8 or 9 guys in the box he isn't going to produce crap. It's up to the QB and WRs to make plays and take the pressure off the front line. I keep hearing these analysts say Kobe deferred too, much and settled for jumpers, but they don't get any deeper into the breakdown of the game. I don't care how good a player is, if a team has three guys on you every time you start driving to the paint you aren't going to come out on top. Kobe's teammates weren't moving without the basketball and were not decisive or confident with their offense. In the pick and roll situation Gasol and Odom dogged it and didn't make aggressive cuts to the rim for Kobe to set them up for easy dunks and possible And1 plays. They either drifted to no man's land halfway between the basket and 3 point line, or made a half-assed attempt to get to the rim which allowed Boston's weakside help to recover and be in position to defend. The bottom line, the Lakers Big 3 weren't in the same class as Boston's Big 3 and our bench was completely outplayed the entire series. We only had one good performance by Sasha in just one game the entire series. The rest of the time the bench didn't do squat for us and coming into this series the Lakers bench was supposed to be an advantage for us. Lakers had no one to match up with James Posey and he killed us every time he stepped on the court. He was the difference maker the entire series for Boston and his teammates fed off him.</div> Shape, he's dubbed the "best player on the planet" so I don't see how we hold him at a higher standard than anyone else? My problem with him his that a player that talented and gifted who has such knowledge about the game should be able to make wiser decisions. This wasn't just one game or two games we played against the Celtics. We played them in the regular season, and 6 games in the Finals. Are you telling me he couldn't "FIGURE OUT" what Boston was doing? I put a very large blame on Phil Jackson and the rest of the coaching staff. They did very little coaching in the series and made horrible adjustments. Just horrible. You would think Phil would be hungry for that 10th ring to put him at the top, I guess not. Like instead of giving Ira Newble and Ariza more playign time, he just fuckin sits on his high horse and gives the bulk of the minutes to Luke and Radman, that ****ing pisses me off. Make some damn adjustments, how long was it going to take that Walton and Radman could not handle Pierce? I wanna know why the Lakers didn't consistently put 2 shooters (Sasha and Vlad for ex.) on both corners, and allow Kobe to penetrate to the hole, and if Boston collapses, then Kobe dishes out for the open shot. If Boston stays at home, Kobe can take his man and either get the foul or score in the paint. I know Kobe is human and he's not perfect, but he disappeared when the Lakers needed him most. This is two bad Finals performances now, so now I'm really questioning his ability in the Finals as of late. I mean god damn, we had a good team. We had a team that got us the best record in the west, and we beat 3 very formidable opponents who all won 50+ games this season. Kobe sure as hell did not play like an MVP out there, he was a non factor just as much as Luke Walton. How he was not able to control Game 4 and gather up the team and stop Boston's run at our 24 point lead. Come on now, the best player in the world and the MVP of the league should be able to get us that Win... TWENTY FOUR POINTS, unbelievable. They stopped doing what was actually working in game 1 which was the pick & rolls with Kobe and Gasol, and Gasol and Odom feeding off each other. Kobe just kept doing what Boston wanted him to do, shoot those damn outside jumpers. If Kobe was more aggressive attacking, it would have helped our players tremendously. Our shooters did not have too many open shots this series. I don't see how Kobe read the defense that well as you stated. </div> Kobe did figure out what Boston was doing and adjusted his game based on the pressure they threw at him. Kobe was very aggressive attacking, but he did it from the perimeter because those were the looks, the only looks Boston was willing to give him. Kobe is a great player, but he's not capable of splitting a triple team. Kobe was kicking the ball out, but Sasha couldn't make anything except in Game 3, which made it even tougher for Kobe to find driving lanes. You just have to look at the matchups on the court and the Lakers weren't taking advantage of them like they did the entire season. Boston put Paul Pierce on Kobe to prevent him from posting up. Kobe doesn't have the size to back Pierce down in the paint like he did against Ray Allen. Plus he has to deal with KG lurking as the secondary defender and either Allen or Rondo cheating off their man to limit Kobe's lateral space. If Sasha hits those wide open shots Kobe was getting him, or if either Gasol or Odom could be offensive threats then Kobe would have had an entirely different series. You have to give Boston's defense a ton of credit. They fought the entire series and simply wanted more than the Lakers did. Kobe going 1 on 3 wouldn't have produced any results and as we've seen the last two years, when Kobe tries to take over games his teammates become stagnant spectators on offense. The only knock I have against Kobe is his rebounding. I would have liked to see him crash the boards harder and box his man out. Rondo and Allen were getting a lot of rebounds on him the entire series.
