<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Cypher:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me make a (maybe stupid) comparison. Look at the Phoenix lineup without Nash. Johnson, Richardson, Marion and Stoudemire. That's like a 500hp car with no tyres. Now consider Nash to be the tyres. A 500hp car will be damn fast no matter what tyres you're going to equip it with. Of course it's going to be even faster with a good set of wheels, but it'll run well with cheap ones too. That's how I see the Suns now. This team is pure dynamite, even without Nash. He's just the sparkplug it needed to get these guys going. And that's why I think he can't be MVP. I guess a lot of players could have been that sparkplug. Take a good point guard who can lead a running team and you get a very similar result. The key here is the quantity of players who are available who could have done that for the Suns. And you're right. Put McGrady on the Lakers team and they'll still be as good or bad as they are. But how many players besided McGrady are there who would fit into that scheme. Maybe Lebron, but that's it (at least for this positon). Take Nash out of Phoenix' lineup and you could probably exchange him with at least seven or eight players and the outcome would have been nearly the same. Marbury, Bibby, maybe even guys like Parker or Jason Williams could have delivered similar things for them.</div> Marbury played in Phoenix and was traded last season because he wasn't able to involve the other players like they wanted him to do. And it doesn't matter with whom you can replace him or anyone else. The MVP is about the most important player on one of the best teams. Phoenix is one of the best teams, and the most important player in Phoenix is Nash, you just have to look at how badly they did without him. None of the other starters have been injured this year, but if one of them got injured, I'm sure they wouldn't perform as bad as they did without Nash. I know that the same is true for TD, LeBron and Garnett. I don't think Shaq is that valuable to his team as those other four guys, they do quite well while he isn't on the floor, sometimes even better because then they're able to play fast ball. In the end, it'll be a race between TD, LeBron and Nash, while I think Nash deserves it more this year. Also TD won it already twice and has this year much more help from Parker and Ginobili. And LeBron, well LeBron is only second to Nash because I think Nash is worth more to his team than LeBron, but not by much.
I heard some arguments about Cleveland being as bad as Phoenix without Nash, and yes they aren't as good talent wise, but they have one important piece, a Point Guard [actually 2]. Anyone who watched Cleveland last year watched how they struggled when Lebron hadn't learnt the art of running and NBA team, and was playing point. Jeff McInnis get's traded to the team as the PG, and they were a +.500 team with him in the lineup. This year Lebron can play the role, and they have Snow also anyways, but that's irrelevant. Cleveland without Lebron isn't a top Eastern team, but they'll win games because they have 2 playmakers in McInnis and Eric Snow who can get Gooden, Ilguaskas, and whoever else shots, and can also look for their own offense. Now Cleveland didn't play the Pistons, Wizards, or Grizzlies wihouth LJ, and their win was against the Bucks, but still. The Suns on the other hand, have no other actual PG or big playmaker [a KG, Kobe, Tmac, Ray Allen, Vince, Pierce etc] on their whole roster. The only other guy that <u>was</u> [Jim Jackson can now too] capable of playing the playmaker role was Joe Johnson, but he's not even as good at those other SG's in playamking, let alone being compared to a PG. He goes out to find his own offense, which he did a good job of in those games, averaging 18.3 points on 43.4% FG, and 46.2% 3PT, but averaged 3 assists, even lower than his season average. He wasn't driving and dishing, he wasn't running the pick and roll, and passing it to the slasher, or to the man popping out, he was driving and pulling up, running the pick and roll and shooting, or driving to the basket for a layup instead. When Nash was out, the Suns basically just ran Iso's all over the court, and couldn't get any offensive fluidity. Barbosa himself isn't an actual PG, but he can bring the ball up and set things up, but the injury bug got him before the Memphis game. You can't put 4 or 5 players who are more inclined to get their own offense, and one guy [Voskuhl] who's just there to rebound, and defend, and expect to beat any good teams. Especially when you have a guy like Q-Rich who shot 35.7% with an average of 10.3 three attempts in the stretch, though it was better than the previous 3 games where he shot 22.9%, but not impressive, and is always very trigger happy from the perimeter.
wrong <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I heard some arguments about Cleveland being as bad as Phoenix without Nash, and yes they aren't as good talent wise, but they have one important piece, a Point Guard [actually 2]. Anyone who watched Cleveland last year watched how they struggled when Lebron hadn't learnt the art of running and NBA team, and was playing point. Jeff McInnis get's traded to the team as the PG, and they were a +.500 team with him in the lineup. This year Lebron can play the role, and they have Snow also anyways, but that's irrelevant. Cleveland without Lebron isn't a top Eastern team, but they'll win games because they have 2 playmakers in McInnis and Eric Snow who can get Gooden, Ilguaskas, and whoever else shots, and can also look for their own offense. Now Cleveland didn't play the Pistons, Wizards, or Grizzlies wihouth LJ, and their win was against the Bucks, but still. The Suns on the other hand, have no other actual PG or big playmaker [a KG, Kobe, Tmac, Ray Allen, Vince, Pierce etc] on their whole roster. The only other guy that <u>was</u> [Jim Jackson can now too] capable of playing the playmaker role was Joe Johnson, but he's not even as good at those other SG's in playamking, let alone being compared to a PG. He goes out to find his own offense, which he did a good job of in those games, averaging 18.3 points on 43.4% FG, and 46.2% 3PT, but averaged 3 assists, even lower than his season average. He wasn't driving and dishing, he wasn't running the pick and roll, and passing it to the slasher, or to the man popping out, he was driving and pulling up, running the pick and roll and shooting, or driving to the basket for a layup instead. When Nash was out, the Suns basically just ran Iso's all over the court, and couldn't get any offensive fluidity. Barbosa himself isn't an actual PG, but he can bring the ball up and set things up, but the injury bug got him before the Memphis game. You can't put 4 or 5 players who are more inclined to get their own offense, and one guy [Voskuhl] who's just there to rebound, and defend, and expect to beat any good teams. Especially when you have a guy like Q-Rich who shot 35.7% with an average of 10.3 three attempts in the stretch, though it was better than the previous 3 games where he shot 22.9%, but not impressive, and is always very trigger happy from the perimeter.</div> I'm sorry the cavs without lebron are much worse than the 19 win team of two years ago hence worse than the suns without nash. Look at the two cavs teams. Two years ago G - Ricky Davis G - D-miles F - ? F - boozer C - Z Now without Lebron G - Snow / Mcginnis G - Ira Newble (hah) F - whoever fills in for bron F - Gooden C - Z
Yup, like I said, talent wise they don't compare, but in terms of how they play, they'd look much more structured than a Suns team without Nash. Of course they'd be worse, they don't even have a player who's ever scored 20 PPG in their career while the Suns have 2, and 2 others who have scored 16+. They'd have less of a dropoff though, they won't beat any good teams, but can beat scrubs, while the Suns will beat average teams and scrubs, but won't be beating the good-very good teams because of that missing link. Yes, Cavs without Lebron are not too pleasant since the Cavs depth wasn't that good either, but Suns without Nash, at least in a short term injury situation will struggle more because they overdepend on him to run their offense while the Cavs have 2 other players who can run it well, and could cope for a few games.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jwohl:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry the cavs without lebron are much worse than the 19 win team of two years ago hence worse than the suns without nash. Look at the two cavs teams. Two years ago G - Ricky Davis G - D-miles F - ? F - boozer C - Z Now without Lebron G - Snow / Mcginnis G - Ira Newble (hah) F - whoever fills in for bron F - Gooden C - Z</div> You can't compare those two teams because the team of two years ago lost on purpose, they weren't as bad as their record. Also Cleveland looked pretty good against the Bucks, not really like a team that misses his best and most important player. I know the Bucks aren't quite a team you expect them to lose but according to you Cleveland without LeBron should be worse than Milwaukee.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Coranor:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't compare those two teams because the team of two years ago lost on purpose, they weren't as bad as their record. Also Cleveland looked pretty good against the Bucks, not really like a team that misses his best and most important player. I know the Bucks aren't quite a team you expect them to lose but according to you Cleveland without LeBron should be worse than Milwaukee.</div> They weren't as bad as their record but they weren't much better than it either. Granted they should have won a few more games but no more than a handful.
Why the hell is KG even being mentioned? Not only did I have to hear his name all of last year (when he had a good year) but also this year when he's been mediocre. KG has gone invisible many nights for the Wolves, and no player coming off an MVP playing on a hugly underachieving team should even be mentioned. This season is also taking the shine off him for what he did last year, people said he carried the wolves, right now he can't even carry a sack of dirty towels. His teammates helped him alot last year, now they aren't that great and KG looks like he's ready to roll over!
Garnett is having a mediocre season? 22.4 points per game 14.3 rebounds per game 6.0 assists per game 1.52 steals per game 1.36 blocks per game Darn, I didn't know that was mediocre. That definately means that Duncan is having a very mediocre season. Garnett leads him in all statistical categories but blocks. To be the MVP your team doesn't have to be the best, it is Most Valuable Player. I know wins make a difference in voting, but Garnett is doing all he can.
