<div class="quote_poster">Chuck Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I find it quite amusing that some of you guys are so homophobic. Someone even said "this is humiliating." This is a step in the right direction, for sure. Dude shouldn't have to hide who he is, whoever he is. It is Richard Jefferson, by the way </div> that pic says nothing about nobody. the only thing it says is Channing Frye is proud of his six-pack.
The pic itself doesn't really prove anything, I've put my arm around male buddies during a picture and I haven't and don't plan on having homosexual intercourse.
<div class="quote_poster">SkiptoMyLue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The pic itself doesn't really prove anything, I've put my arm around male buddies during a picture and I haven't and don't plan on having homosexual intercourse.</div> ^^^ lmao the way you put that is hilarious
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not necessarily. While the general public shouldn't care, and it doesn't really matter if they do or not, odds are his teammates might feel uncomfortable around him. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but with these overly-masculine athletes who undress and take showers together, there's bound to be some tension when you throw someone who's bi-sexual into the mix.</div> That may be true. But it has nothing to do with calling it the biggest 'scandal' in NBA history. There ARE other gay players in the NBA, you realize that?
Obviously words like "scandal" and "shocking" are just yellow journalism. It's just used to entice more readers and what not, their literal definitions aren't supposed to be taken into serious consideration. Only simpletons or those who do not understand cheap journalism would think they meant it or believe it actually describes the situation. I wouldn't read into it at all. Eitherway this topic has gone long enough. For all those saying "we shouldn't care" and "it's only his business" ofcourse it is, I just posted it cause it's gossip. Nothing more, nothing less. But, that doesn't mean we can't talk or chat about it as long as its in good humor, and not derogatory. I don't think homosexuality is a subject that is hush-hush in American society. As well as him being a public figure only opens him up to scrutiny/criticism. If RJ (and I'm 99% sure it's him if the reports are true) comes out to the public it can open a lot of doors to other bi/homosexual athletes. Who knows? But for now, it's an interesting subject about having a homosexual teammate when male homophobia is so prevalent in the NBA, especially among African-American males. What does that mean? My highschool teammate was homosexual and it did freak us out back then. Looking back now, I overreacted because like women, not all gay men are attracted to all men, though as a kid we might think that. Does RJ being bi make me dislike him? Absolutely not. Do I care? Yeah, I do, cause well, I like to know more about a person than who he is on the court. I mean all of you saying it's not our business, how many of you changed your opinions about guys like Rueben Patterson, Zach Randolph, Eddie Griffin, and Kobe Bryant after finding out about their legal issues? I mean, it's not supposed to be out business right? But then why do you read and follow up on the case? What about the Michael Jackson, OJ Trials? Did it change your opinions about them? Yeah, a bit different now, huh? And no, I'm not saying RJ's bisexual nature are the same level of crimes these guys committed, acquitted or not. Just saying, they're public figures and therefore their lives are always going to be put out there to talk about and we'll change our opinions about them whether conciously or subconciously, and I don't care if you say it doesn't change your opinion, it does, you just don't know it yet or you're trying hard to deny it.
<div class="quote_poster">nextlevelgame Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Does RJ being bi make me dislike him? Absolutely not. Do I care? Yeah, I do, cause well, I like to know more about a person than who he is on the court. I mean all of you saying it's not our business, how many of you changed your opinions about guys like Rueben Patterson, Zach Randolph, Eddie Griffin, and Kobe Bryant after finding out about their legal issues? I mean, it's not supposed to be out business right? But then why do you read and follow up on the case? What about the Michael Jackson, OJ Trials? Did it change your opinions about them? Yeah, a bit different now, huh? And no, I'm not saying RJ's bisexual nature are the same level of crimes these guys committed, acquitted or not. Just saying, they're public figures and therefore their lives are always going to be put out there to talk about and we'll change our opinions about them whether conciously or subconciously, and I don't care if you say it doesn't change your opinion, it does, you just don't know it yet or you're trying hard to deny it.</div> That's where the problem lies. A person's sexual reference should not change your opinion of someone, in ANY sense. Comparing that to criminal acts like rape, child molestation, assault, etc, is ridiculous. Yes, I know you said his bisexual nature is not on the same level, but it's not even on the same page. It's not on the same book. Maybe we should start making public NBA players who are attracted to redheads instead of blondes. Or tall people. It makes no difference. You are slightly homophobic deep inside. Try to fix that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's where the problem lies. A person's sexual reference should not change your opinion of someone, in ANY sense. Comparing that to criminal acts like rape, child molestation, assault, etc, is ridiculous. Yes, I know you said his bisexual nature is not on the same level, but it's not even on the same page. It's not on the same book. Maybe we should start making public NBA players who are attracted to redheads instead of blondes. Or tall people. It makes no difference. You are slightly homophobic deep inside. Try to fix that.</div> I don't know if you learned to read yesterday, or that I didn't dumb it down enough for you, but I said that the comparison of being bisexual and having committed crimes was not the point I was making. This whole dramatic "it's not even on the same page" crusade you decide to go on is what is really ridiculous. It doesn't help your point, nor does refute mine. It's just an over-dramatic idiom (if you really can call it that) lacking sustenance. Try staying on topic. Here, I'm going to break things into paragraphs so you can look at this point by point. Whatever is being reported in their off-court time is all under the whole category "PERSONAL LIFE". So if RJ has a boyfriend, David Robinson builds a school for underpriviledged kids, Larry Hughes brother dies of a terminal illness, or Kobe rapes a girl and was acquitted, it's in their personal life. So under your opinions, it's not supposed to affect our personal opinion about the player, cause it happened off court right? So take the Larry Hughes case, all that matters is what he did on court right? You're not supposed to feel bad or sympathetic right? That's his own personal business and personal life so you stay detached from that? I bet you didn't. Ok yeah, once again, RJ being bisexual is not as tramatic or dramatic. What about Jason Kidd deciding to host a private party for the anniversary of his and Jourmana's wedding? Will that help booster your opinion of Jason Kidd? The fact remains: no matter what you find out about a player in what they do in their off time: Steve Nash's wild party pictures or RJ being bisexual, it will change your opinion about them. Maybe you haven't dealt with many homosexuals or know many (I don't know, but I won't go assuming that), but if you think about it, it affects you and makes you think about it, whether good or bad. You went on assuming it was negative thoughts on my part, which I am going to get into right now. Am I homophobic when I said I'll still wear his jersey around, wear a Rudy Gay jersey, my best friend is the VP of Pride when we were in college? Hell no. The basketball teammate of mine that is homosexual stood next to me at my wedding, so where the hell do you go off judging who I am and what I need to fix, you pompous jerk? You went assuming I hate gays and am a closet homophobe when instead its the exact opposite. Yeah, I felt weird in high school but that's because it was the first I had encountered a homosexual and ofcourse you're going to feel uncomfortable with the unfamiliar. No different than the first time I encountered my wife and thought of her as an overambitious, arrogant, b-word, that I've come to love for the past 3.5 years of our marriage, and the 4 years prior to our marriage. So like I said, maybe you haven't come into contact with homosexuals or unfamilar things/people but whatever it is, your first feelings with them are going to be apprehensive and timid, to use easy to understand words. So finally, maybe you don't understand whole sentences so I'll do what they taught me at business school during my university years, make bullet points: -You're a hypocrite; you're telling me not to judge people, when you're judging me in your post -RJ's personal life will always be under scrutiny for the public, whether he has homosexual relations, decides to protest the war, or holds a charity event, and it won't always be negative, like you assume. -Instead of using your holier than thou attitude and go assuming things, maybe you should get your facts first -You need to deeply analyze your feelings over issues like this because you're regurgitating things they teach in elementary about anti-discrimination. I feel as if you're not exactly understanding the issue here, and your profile says you're 19, so you're young and have a lot to learn about dealing with the unfamiliar as well as how it changes your opinions. If I got heated in this reply, I apologize, but I cannot stand those who judge me when they don't know me. You may reply that I do the same with RJ, but difference is, I'm not a public figure. Is it a double-standard? Yeah, and it's existed in our society since far before you and I have been around. Remember that.
My vote goes to Cliff Robinson, just because of the irony that would go with an old, fading player saying this and the fact that it's become such a huge story.
How would you feel if he ate a ham sandwitch....? Exactly, their personal life dosen't matter. We are a tabloid reading, gossip loving bunch of retarded consumers who care more about Who's dating who then wars and famine and crime. WHO THE HELL CARES IF HE IS GAY?
The point nextlevelgame is making, and that I kind of agree with, is that its inevitable that your opinion of him is going to change. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll change in a negative way, but you will think of him differently knowing that he is (if this turns out to be true) bisexual. You can still seperate that from his basketball career, but if someone mentions Richard Jefferson as a person, his bisexuality will probably come up. Our society is just naturally like that.
<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How would you feel if he ate a ham sandwitch....? Exactly, their personal life dosen't matter. We are a tabloid reading, gossip loving bunch of retarded consumers who care more about Who's dating who then wars and famine and crime. WHO THE HELL CARES IF HE IS GAY?</div> I must cheer you on for missing the point entirely.
<div class="quote_poster">nextlevelgame Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I must cheer you on for missing the point entirely. </div> How did he miss the point? He is merely saying "who should care?". I certainly don't care, and whether you know it or not, it doesn't affect my opinion, outlook, and/or views on him. Maybe I don't fall into your views of society. I look at them as a basketball player, not as a bi-sexual basketball player. I have never cared about the bballs players lives, including Kobe. When Kobe was accused of raping, I didn't look into it. He was still the same player on the court to me. The only way I can see this changing my "view" on him is me now knowing he is bi-sexual. It would be the same change of "view" if I knew what his favorite color is.
<div class="quote_poster">Franchise4Ever Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How did he miss the point? He is merely saying "who should care?". I certainly don't care, and whether you know it or not, it doesn't affect my opinion, outlook, and/or views on him. Maybe I don't fall into your views of society. I look at them as a basketball player, not as a bi-sexual basketball player. I have never cared about the bballs players lives, including Kobe. When Kobe was accused of raping, I didn't look into it. He was still the same player on the court to me. The only way I can see this changing my "view" on him is me now knowing he is bi-sexual. It would be the same change of "view" if I knew what his favorite color is.</div> If you want to go on being ignorant and ignoring that there is a real world out there, sure. I think you should care, and that it is a big issue. Not that just RJ is bisexual and you should think it's gross, but how it effects the world of team sports. Look at the steroid issue with the MLB. Are you going to tell me that you ignored that? That it did not change your opinion about sports in general? It's an issue that we all accepted in the past but chose to ignore cause we didn't want to know any better, didn't want to stress the importance of it. Look, RJ being bisexual isn't the same as an enhancing performance drug and it won't effect him on the court as steriods would for sports players. That's not what I'm getting at. What I am getting at with these examples are these are controversial hotbeds that should be explored, if say RJ decides to become public with his homosexuality (this is all depending on whether this is true or not, because like everyone said, the source is not too credible). But, regardless of whether its true or not, there is a prevalent homophobia among sports athletes, particularly among African-American males. So to the teammates of these players, they'll feel alienated and the player will be alienated, especially in shower situations + celebration situations, so there should be discussion about the ambiguity of them. All this "I don't care", "It shouldn't matter" policy is just another way of saying "I say I don't care and it doesn't matter, but what I really means is that I don't want to know cause I fear the implications of it". I mean, most of you are kids right now, I guess I'm fighting a lost cause and I hope in your college years you discover more about the meaning behind controversial issues and the need to put them in an open forum rather than silence and overlook them.
<div class="quote_poster">SkiptoMyLue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The pic itself doesn't really prove anything, I've put my arm around male buddies during a picture and I haven't and don't plan on having homosexual intercourse.</div> lol I don't think the pic was being used in as bisexual evidence. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MainMan:</div><div class="quote_post">that guy on the right holding his shirt looks like jameel white aka urkel</div> His name is Jaleel White, and the dude on the right is Channing Frye, who looks nothing like him.
<div class="quote_poster">nextlevelgame Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you want to go on being ignorant and ignoring that there is a real world out there, sure. I think you should care, and that it is a big issue. Not that just RJ is bisexual and you should think it's gross, but how it effects the world of team sports. </div> Who ever said I was being ignorant of it affecting the world of sports? Please reread my post before jumping to conclusions. I said it doesn't affect me in any way. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting nextlevelgame:</div><div class="quote_post">Look at the steroid issue with the MLB. Are you going to tell me that you ignored that?</div> To be completely honest I didn't care about them using steroids. It is their choice if they want to use that. Also using an illegal drug to enhance your playing capabilities and being bi-sexual are not even in the same book, nor library. There is no comparison and I don't even know why you mentioned it. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting nextlevelgame:</div><div class="quote_post">Look, RJ being bisexual isn't the same as an enhancing performance drug and it won't effect him on the court as steriods would for sports players. That's not what I'm getting at. What I am getting at with these examples are these are controversial hotbeds that should be explored, if say RJ decides to become public with his homosexuality (this is all depending on whether this is true or not, because like everyone said, the source is not too credible). But, regardless of whether its true or not, there is a prevalent homophobia among sports athletes, particularly among African-American males. So to the teammates of these players, they'll feel alienated and the player will be alienated, especially in shower situations + celebration situations, so there should be discussion about the ambiguity of them.</div> Unless you are in those locker rooms with those players then I highly doubt you know he is being "alienated" because of his sexual orrientation. If it is RJ and Jason Kidd or Carter knew of it, how do you know they will act different? Maybe they just brush it aside. It is not like he is hitting on them. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting nextlevelgame:</div><div class="quote_post">All this "I don't care", "It shouldn't matter" policy is just another way of saying "I say I don't care and it doesn't matter, but what I really means is that I don't want to know cause I fear the implications of it".</div> No, it is just that. I don't really care. Why do you insist on fighting with the forum goers that they should care that he is bi-sexual? He likes both male and female, good for him. Does he still play in the NBA? Good, because that is why I watch him. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting nextlevelgame:</div><div class="quote_post">I mean, most of you are kids right now, I guess I'm fighting a lost cause and I hope in your college years you discover more about the meaning behind controversial issues and the need to put them in an open forum rather than silence and overlook them.</div> Do I really need to pick his sexual orrientation out and pay that much attention to it? Does the whole world have to know? I mean that is the implication you are putting on. Hold on, I'm going to fight the good fight like you are doing, and I'm going to get everyone to notice this and not be "ignorant". I'll start putting signs up. Did everyone see that? Good, don't stay "silent and overlook" it. Point being, watch the game for what it is. Basketball. You're trying to be too indepth about a subject that doesn't matter to you, and a subject that shouldn't to the NBA.
I would reply to all your post, but I can't get past your jarring cyncism and because of that, I really don't think there is anything I can say that would change your callous disregard of what could become a great conversational hotbed in the world of team sports. Maybe you don't want to discuss anything unfamilar to you, or just want to believe that NBA players do not have a persona outside of their on court personalities, but fact remains is that should there be an openly gay member of the NBA, MLB, or NFL will become a controversy that we cannot and should not overlook. Just look at some of the responses in the rest of this thread, if your peers find it weird or disgusting, you really think the rest of the NBA would just be ok with it? RJ himself was quoted to say: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The locker-room truth, as told by Richard Jefferson of the New Jersey Nets, is that athletes shower and dress in communal spaces and that many would feel uneasy about doing so in front of a gay teammate. The first openly gay male athlete will have to be a respected superstar, Jefferson said, likening it to Magic Johnson announcing that he had contracted the virus that causes AIDS. If there's an athlete thinking about coming out, Jefferson offered this how-to: "You would have to approach your teammates and be like, 'Look, this is who I am. I don't like any of you. I'm not trying to pick up on any of you,' " he said. "Would it make people feel uncomfortable? Of course it would."</div> This is the professional opinion of an NBA basketball player. This is where I derive my logic in saying that teammates and the specific player will feel alienated. That's how I know, aside from my own experiences. Here's what Malik Rose, a New York Knick said, <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> "You know what Jackie Robinson went through?" asked Malik Rose of the New York Knicks, referring to the abuse directed toward the first black player in Major League Baseball. "That would pale in comparison to what the first openly gay athlete would face. Nobody would want to play with him, play against him, be in the same locker room with him." </div> Now do you still believe in your quote: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Unless you are in those locker rooms with those players then I highly doubt you know he is being "alienated" because of his sexual orrientation. If it is RJ and Jason Kidd or Carter knew of it, how do you know they will act different? Maybe they just brush it aside. It is not like he is hitting on them. </div> Or are you going to play the same facade that they don't care and it's not an issue? Tracy McGrady in Stuff Magazine was quoted in saying that 5% of the NBA is gay. 5% of what like 450 players which would make it around 22 or 23 players that are gay. Why do you think we don't know any of their identities? But we know that Tony Parker is engaged to Eva Longoria, Grant Hill with Tamia etc? Cause they obviously don't want people to know. I mean, if RJ were to have relations with Tyson Beckford, a supermodel, why does he have to keep it a secret? Because it's going to change things, and put them in a negative light. The fact that Malik Rose compared this to Jackie Robinson is also an interesting note. Obviously, one can hide his homosexuality while you cannot hide the color of your skin, so that's the superficial difference. But what is intrinsically the same? It's that the teammates and the team member will always be looked at as being different and fans will as well. As well as fans of opposing team will exploit it with their heckling and just downright rudeness like in the Mutombo incident earliar this season. And you want to say "it doesn't matter"? I present to you a scene from my highschool playing days. When we played our biggest rival, and this was shortly after my friend had come out to us, we initially alienated him, but coach stood by him, well he was also our 2nd leading scorer so he was invaluable to the team. But during the game some idiot fan decided to put up a sign saying "Fags should be Burned in Hell" and that fan as well as his loser comrades decided to chant that. And no one stopped it. Not the refs, not the other parents next to him, no one. My teammated ended up going 2-14 in that game and it was painfully obvious why. To this day, he refuses to mention what he thought about that game and refuses to discuss it. It's not the group of morons that upset me as much as the parents and other fans next to them. Maybe some of them believed that but didn't want to voice it, or maybe some of them shared your "I don't care if he's gay, I just want to watch basketball" attitude and didn't want to do anything. You know, I talked this issue with my bestfriend in college, an active member of the LGBT community and he said it's a deal we should not ignore and it could help disspell common myths of homosexuality and to quell homophobia in the world today...Yet you want to go on in believing that it doesn't matter and there should no be discussion of it. You want to silently endorse the idea of this "don't ask, don't tell" policy that we keep in society today. Why? Are you homophobic? Perhaps that's too direct. You're just a child, and I see you're about to turn 17 years old in two days. Perhaps thats the reason I can't get across to you. Maybe that's also why you ignore things like the Steroid Case, the Kobe trials, cause you can. As a soon to be parent of a child, and close friends of a homosexual couple that are hoping to adopt a child, I do not want my son/daughter playing with the other child and be ostracized because he/she has relations with another child of a homosexual couple. That's just stupid and immorally wrong. I'll encourage my son/daughter to not think about it and do whats right in his/her heart, and hopefully my friend's child does not have to feel any shame or remorse for his/her situation in life, because he will have loving parents that can raise him just as well. And how does this relate our situation? The more celebrities, sports heroes, basically anyone we put on a pedastal and admire come out with their homosexuality, the more we'll begin to see it in a good light and begin to discuss what about homosexuality makes us afraid. Much like the Jackie Robinson case, this could spark a change for a more tolerant society, because life is so much more than just basketball and the NBA. I love it just as much as any other fan, and I've been watching it for far longer than you've been alive, but as you grow older, you'll begin to realize that this world needs a lot of repairing and using vehicles such as sports, music to get a message to your generation is the best way possible. I mean, what makes watching the NBA so appealing and what makes Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant your favorite players? Why do you admire them? Do admire that Dwight is a good kid with a great head on his shoulders? If you do, then that's a non-basketball related reason for you liking him, and it's certainly a valid reason. What about his statements to "evangelize" the NBA? I mean, even the basketball players have their own motives and agendas that are far reaching just what goes on the court. I initially did not intend to write so much, but the issue is somewhat personal to me because having grown up with friends around me that have been ostracized and deeply scarred, I would like to believe that things would be different for my child's generation. And sadly, it hasn't changed enough in my opinion. But maybe you don't understand that, and in time you will. I hope that you will. Like I said, there so much good that can be done using an instrument such as the NBA to get positive messages across and to change common misunderstandings. Hopefully you see my side now.
I don?t think RJ is Bi. This ?rumor? has been out their for quit sometime now. But I can?t discount for a fact that some NBA players have the tendency to be Bi or have acted like one. Here is a perfect example of how a ?bi? NBA player would act. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFcinlrgojk now tell me have you seen RJ do the same? NO!
