<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J_Ray:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, they are located in a pretty big city, and they only get a 1,000 people to a game. They want to go somewhere, they will get free agents so they can at least improve their record. </div> first of all, our attendance wasn't half bad last year (thank you J-smoove) and second of all.... wait.... i forgot what i was gonna say.....
It will be either Chris Paul or Andrew Bogut because of the reasons that were already stated that they would get the most playing time for their team in their rookie years. My off-season all-rookie team would look a little like this: G - Chris Paul Like i said before him along with Andrew Bogut will get the most playing time for their teams in their rookie season. Paul is a great talent and should fit great along side JR Smith and get most of his assits off of him. G - Rashad McCants He is probably going to be the only shooting guard in the draft that is going to get some serious playing time. He'll start next year for the T'Wolves and fit nice next to KG and Sam. F - Joey Graham One of the most athletic and biggest players in this years draft, he will play in Toronto and make an impact in his first year. He will get the nood over Danny Granger because of the playing time he will receive in Toronto. F - Ryan Gomes He will receive playing time as a small forward for the Celtics and he has an NBA-ready body to step in right away and contribute. It would probably be a battle between him and Marvin Williams at this spot, Gomes would be on a better team, so he would get the edge. C - Andrew Bogut Bogut will be the main guy in the middle, he'll get his shots, and more importlantly he'll get the playing time that he needs to dominant in the east in his first year. Runner Ups - Marvin Williams,F; Hakim Warrick,F; Danny Granger,G/F; Raymond Felton, G. Everybody even the runner ups in my mind are all the serious contenders for ROY but again the most important factor in being named rookie of the year is if you take advantage of the playing time that is given to you.
You guys have it all wrong it's either chris paul or Deron Williams. I see Deron closer to it though he's defenitley going to start for the Jazz
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">F - Ryan Gomes He will receive playing time as a small forward for the Celtics and he has an NBA-ready body to step in right away and contribute. It would probably be a battle between him and Marvin Williams at this spot, Gomes would be on a better team, so he would get the edge.</div> This is a joke, right? I don't care how much you overrate the guy, this pick is terrible. He's not going to start, and he's probably not even going to get twenty minutes per game next season. Yet despite all that, you see him an an All-NBA Teamer over Marvin Williams and Wayne Simien.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">This is a joke, right? I don't care how much you overrate the guy, this pick is terrible. He's not going to start, and he's probably not even going to get twenty minutes per game next season. Yet despite all that, you see him an an All-NBA Teamer over Marvin Williams and Wayne Simien.</div>Weird, because I heard Doc Rivers on a Boston radio station saying that Gomes will most likely start because of the matchup problems he will create by forcing 2 guards to guard Paul Pierce. He mentioned that Ricky Davis and Tony Allen are high energy players, and thinks they are most effective when coming off the bench. He said that he really likes Gomes' game, and wanted him at 18 if things had gone the way they were supposed to in the draft. Assuming that Doc wasn't lying when he said all that, then I think C.K.'s "joke" is far less funny.
Well again, this is a bit premature, but I have to wonder why everyone is neglecting the #1 overall pick this year in Andrew Bogut. He's the most NBA ready, has the most experience, and will be playing the biggest role or second biggest role on his team depending on Redd. On top of that, the lack of competition between centers these days make it even more wide open for Bogut to snag the ROY. Let's see what's in store for the season though; I am very eager to see how the rookies in this year's draft turn out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Weird, because I heard Doc Rivers on a Boston radio station saying that Gomes will most likely start because of the matchup problems he will create by forcing 2 guards to guard Paul Pierce. He mentioned that Ricky Davis and Tony Allen are high energy players, and thinks they are most effective when coming off the bench. He said that he really likes Gomes' game, and wanted him at 18 if things had gone the way they were supposed to in the draft. Assuming that Doc wasn't lying when he said all that, then I think C.K.'s "joke" is far less funny.</div> Pardon me for making the logical assumption that a #50 pick wouldn't start right off the bat on a playoff team because I don't listen to Boston sports radio shows. And call me when "most likely" turns into a definite 82 game starting guarantee. Either way, Gomes starting doesn't make me think that he has any more of a shot to be a first team selection over Marvin Williams. Unless you want to defend that one, I still find C.K.'s "joke" very, very funny.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Pardon me for making the logical assumption that a #50 pick wouldn't start right off the bat on a playoff team because I don't listen to Boston sports radio shows. And call me when "most likely" turns into a definite 82 game starting guarantee. Either way, Gomes starting doesn't make me think that he has any more of a shot to be a first team selection over Marvin Williams. Unless you want to defend that one, I still kind C.K.'s "joke" very, very funny.</div>First off, I'm very sorry for causing your eyes to roll like that. It looks like it hurts. Secondly, what's this whole deal with labeling Gomes a "#50 pick"? Would his chance of starting be any greater if they had drafted him at 18? I'm not sure I understand your logic there, or perhaps it's just an illogical statement to make. Not so sure at this point. Next, we have the coach of the Celtics on record saying that he wants to start Gomes, who just so happens to be a 4 year college player. Do we have Mike Woodson on record saying the same thing about Williams? Also, Josh Smith, Al Harrington, and Josh Childress are very similar players to Marvin, and all have much more NBA experience under their belt. What's the, as you make it seem, obvious reason why Marvin Williams will start and play significant minutes in his rookie season? I mean, he didn't even start for the Tar Heels, so I guess being a "#2 pick" as opposed to a "#50 pick" just gives him that extra push he needs. Because we all know that lottery picks always pan out and there has never been a 2nd rounder who has gotten significant minutes in the NBA. And lastly, the Celtics started a rookie, in Tony Allen, for the majority of last season. And yes, they were a playoff team the year before. It is possible.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, I'm very sorry for causing your eyes to roll like that. It looks like it hurts. Secondly, what's this whole deal with labeling Gomes a "#50 pick"? Would his chance of starting be any greater if they had drafted him at 18? I'm not sure I understand your logic there, or perhaps it's just an illogical statement to make. Not so sure at this point.</div> <--- a skill I label Gomes a #50 pick, because, well, I heard through the grapevine that he was a #50 pick. If that little rumor is untrue though, I want you to be the first to prove me wrong. I bring it up, because you almost never see a #50 pick start his ROOKIE YEAR, so why would I assume without any special knowledge in the Celtics organization that it would be any different in this case? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Next, we have the coach of the Celtics on record saying that he wants to start Gomes, who just so happens to be a 4 year college player. Do we have Mike Woodson on record saying the same thing about Williams? Also, Josh Smith, Al Harrington, and Josh Childress are very similar players to Marvin, and all have much more NBA experience under their belt. What's the, as you make it seem, obvious reason why Marvin Williams will start and play significant minutes in his rookie season? I mean, he didn't even start for the Tar Heels, so I guess being a "#2 pick" as opposed to a "#50 pick" just gives him that extra push he needs. Because we all know that lottery picks always pan out and there has never been a 2nd rounder who has gotten significant minutes in the NBA.</div> How often do you, as a coach, have to go on the record saying that you're going to start your #2 pick? He's not as raw as Darko. Josh Childress is a Shooting Guard, Al Harrington isn't so much a wing as a Power Forward and is also on the block, and Josh Smith has the ability to play Power Forward as well. You honestly think that Josh Smith is going to take more time away from Marvin Williams than Ricky Davis (if played as a Small Forward) will take away from Ryan Gomes? And what does starting for the TarHeels (no space) have anything to do with our argument? That's completely off topic. You're right though. I doubt Gomes because he's the #50 pick. It's got nothing to do with the fact that Marvin Williams is more talented. Are you really going to make me go into another argument comparing players from the draft's talents and attributes? I've spent all day doing that in the Raptors forum, and well, it hasn't turned out to well for the Raptors fans. I don't care who you are. The most talented debater in the world could not win an argument about who was more talented, Marvin Williams or Ryan Gomes. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And lastly, the Celtics started a rookie, in Tony Allen, for the majority of last season. And yes, they were a playoff team the year before. It is possible.</div> That's different because Allen was a first rounder. It's not as bizarre for a first rounder to start as a #50 pick.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">This is a joke, right? I don't care how much you overrate the guy, this pick is terrible. He's not going to start, and he's probably not even going to get twenty minutes per game next season. Yet despite all that, you see him an an All-NBA Teamer over Marvin Williams and Wayne Simien.</div> Nothing against Marvin Williams I just think Gomes will get the more shots, and more playing time than Marvin. Gomes will start at the begining of the season if not five, ten games into the season. I don't find this funny at all, i am not overrating the guy I just feel that this is the truth. We'll see looking back a year from now who was right and who was wrong. Marvin Williams is still a very raw player. Sure he went to college for a year but I watched him in the playing time he was given and I feel theres a reason he didn't start. His post game was very raw and those of you that watched the Duke game against Sheldon Williams saw that Sheldon blocked Marvin at least three times (maybe four). So you can see Marvin's post game still needs some work and I feel that would limit his game for about a year. Marvin is a hell of a player and will probably get some playing time his first year but he will be limited to high school moves on the perimeter until he gets more years of teaching under his belt. I definitely feel he could have used just some fine tuning under Roy Williams for another year. Back to Gomes, he is a proven college senior and I don't care what you say about him being picked in the second round this kid has got the skills to start and make an all-rookie team. 20+ points per game and 8 boards against Big East players isn't a fluke. Your entitled to your own opinion on this forum and I will stick to mine, that Gomes will be an all-NBA team player. I don't find it funny AT ALL. VC, I think you are overrating the fact that Gomes was the number 50 pick in the NBA draft. Number 50 is just a number, it just shows how stupid some of these GM's are in the late first, early second round. And one more thing, don't get caught up in where your drafted, just remember that the team that drafted you choose you over tons of US/International prospects and can definitely find somewhere you can fit. For Gomes, I think the C's are found that he will start.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting C.K.:</div><div class="quote_post">Nothing against Marvin Williams I just think Gomes will get the more shots, and more playing time than Marvin. Gomes will start at the begining of the season if not five, ten games into the season. I don't find this funny at all, i am not overrating the guy I just feel that this is the truth. We'll see looking back a year from now who was right and who was wrong. Marvin Williams is still a very raw player. Sure he went to college for a year but I watched him in the playing time he was given and I feel theres a reason he didn't start. His post game was very raw and those of you that watched the Duke game against Sheldon Williams saw that Sheldon blocked Marvin at least three times (maybe four). So you can see Marvin's post game still needs some work and I feel that would limit his game for about a year. Marvin is a hell of a player and will probably get some playing time his first year but he will be limited to high school moves on the perimeter until he gets more years of teaching under his belt. I definitely feel he could have used just some fine tuning under Roy Williams for another year. Back to Gomes, he is a proven college senior and I don't care what you say about him being picked in the second round this kid has got the skills to start and make an all-rookie team. 20+ points per game and 8 boards against Big East players isn't a fluke. Your entitled to your own opinion on this forum and I will stick to mine, that Gomes will be an all-NBA team player. I don't find it funny AT ALL.</div> First of all, why do you say that your selection was based on who will get the most playing time, yet you then go on to bash Marvin Williams' game as if you feel Ryan Gomes is more talented (by the way, Marvin will probably not be a post player in the NBA). Second of all, I'm far from impressed with Ryan Gomes' college stats. You do realize that Wayne Simien, a player just as likely to get the playing time that Ryan Gomes will get, is a more proven college player with better statistics for a much better program, right? Lastly, I don't put much if any stock into Doc Rivers' radio comments. Does that mean I don't think Gomes will start? No, I'll take Rivers' word. I don't, however, think Gomes will be starting for very long, and if he does, he won't be getting the kind of minutes that Williams will get in Atlanta, nor play the role that Marvin is playing. As it seems now, Marvin will step into a very important role in Atlanta where he'll have the rock in his hands a lot during the game. Ryan Gomes' role doesn't sound anything similar. He'll likely be a role player with Ricky Davis probably getting more minutes at his position. C.K., I never said he couldn't be a talented player and picked at #50. You're jumping to conclusions on that one. The only thing I said about the position he was picked was that it's very bizarre for a #50 pick to start right off the bat, and thus I didn't assume he was going to start.
Gomes was an outstanding college player. And C.K is right, he put up the kind of numbers against elite competition that suggest he'll be a player in the NBA. Gomes at the 3 in Boston would create matchup problems. However, the fact remains that we don't know how his game translates to the pros. That's the reason he slipped. That many teams don't pass on a guy unless there's a reason behind it. Am I saying that Gomes won't turn into a solid starter? Not at all. I think he'll be a good player in the league and surely prove a steal with the #50 pick. To expect him to, as a second round pick with questions surrounding his game, be better than a guy like Marvin Williams, who a LOT of people said heading into the draft was the best player in this year's draft, is off base. Ryan Gomes will not be a better player than Marvin Williams. That's no insult to Gomes. It's simply saying that Williams is going to be an absolute star in this league. To expect that Gomes will translate his college game into a different environment, a different atmosphere and at a different position in the pros immediately is off base. In a couple years he'll be a very solid player. But there is no way that he's going to be a better player out of the box than Marvin Williams. Sorry Thrilla, I know he's your boy
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, why do you say that your selection was based on who will get the most playing time, yet you then go on to bash Marvin Williams' game as if you feel Ryan Gomes is more talented (by the way, Marvin will probably not be a post player in the NBA). Second of all, I'm far from impressed with Ryan Gomes' college stats. You do realize that Wayne Simien, a player just as likely to get the playing time that Ryan Gomes will get, is a more proven college player with better statistics for a much better program, right? Lastly, I don't put much if any stock into Doc Rivers' radio comments. Does that mean I don't think Gomes will start? No, I'll take Rivers' word. I don't, however, think Gomes will be starting for very long, and if he does, he won't be getting the kind of minutes that Williams will get in Atlanta, nor play the role that Marvin is playing. As it seems now, Marvin will step into a very important role in Atlanta where he'll have the rock in his hands a lot during the game. Ryan Gomes' role doesn't sound anything similar. He'll likely be a role player with Ricky Davis probably getting more minutes at his position. C.K., I never said he couldn't be a talented player and picked at #50. You're jumping to conclusions on that one. The only thing I said about the position he was picked was that it's very bizarre for a #50 pick to start right off the bat, and thus I didn't assume he was going to start.</div> Marvin Williams is a hell of a player and will be a better player then Gomes when he is entering his prime but this is an all-rookie team and I feel like Gomes is a better player currently then Marvin Williams. Let the college stats prove it, Gomes was a 20 plus point guy while Marvin Williams was coming off the bench for Jackie Manuel and Jawad Williams. Marvin Williams will be a superstar at some point in his career but I would give Gomes the edge in his rookie year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting C.K.:</div><div class="quote_post">Marvin Williams is a hell of a player and will be a better player then Gomes when he is entering his prime but this is an all-rookie team and I feel like Gomes is a better player currently then Marvin Williams. Let the college stats prove it, Gomes was a 20 plus point guy while Marvin Williams was coming off the bench for Jackie Manuel and Jawad Williams. Marvin Williams will be a superstar at some point in his career but I would give Gomes the edge in his rookie year.</div> What of the position change though, man? That's going to be the toughest part for Gomes imo. He defintely has talent, both to play with and to make the positional switch. But it's going to take time, man. It's going to be just as much a developmental process for Gomes to learn how to play the 3; defend, handle, play the perimeter game, as it is for Williams to adjust from college 6th man to NBA starter at his best position. Do I doubt Gomes's ability to make himself into an solid NBA small forward? Nope. But it will take time, and to say that he's currently better at a new position than Williams is at his usual spot is, in my opinion, incorrect.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting C.K.:</div><div class="quote_post">Marvin Williams is a hell of a player and will be a better player then Gomes when he is entering his prime but this is an all-rookie team and I feel like Gomes is a better player currently then Marvin Williams. Let the college stats prove it, Gomes was a 20 plus point guy while Marvin Williams was coming off the bench for Jackie Manuel and Jawad Williams. Marvin Williams will be a superstar at some point in his career but I would give Gomes the edge in his rookie year.</div> Again, Marvin Williams' college career is almost completely irrelevant. We're in the NBA now, and you should evaluate them both for their talents, not their college playing time. You and I both know that Marvin Williams did not come off the bench at North Carolina because he wasn't as talented or ready to play as Jackie Manuel and Jawad Williams. You can't assume that Ryan Gomes is more talented just because he's older. When people say that Marvin Williams is a project or things like that, it doesn't mean that he's completely raw right now. He's still better than Ryan Gomes. And if you put THAT much emphasis on college careers, why not Wayne Simien? With him you have a player who put up better statistics at a better school. Not only that, but he will be playing his true position in the NBA, and if Udonis Haslem is unsigned, then he WILL be the starter for Miami.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post"> I bring it up, because you almost never see a #50 pick start his ROOKIE YEAR, so why would I assume without any special knowledge in the Celtics organization that it would be any different in this case?</div>Gomes is not your typical 50th pick. He could've gone much sooner, and his chances of starting are exactly the same. 50 is just a number, and it means nothing at all in this and many other instances. 50 is also your favorite rapper. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">(no space)</div>So very sorry to disrespect your favorite team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're right though. I doubt Gomes because he's the #50 pick. It's got nothing to do with the fact that Marvin Williams is more talented. </div>Save yourself some time and only bring up things that I care about. I don't think anybody has said that Gomes>Williams. Just that Gomes will have a better rookie season. Is it so offensive to say that a 4 year college player and All American will have a better season than a guy who only played one year? I'm pretty sure the Hawks weren't drafting on needs when they picked Williams, but more likely potential. Can we agree on that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you really going to make me go into another argument comparing players from the draft's talents and attributes? I've spent all day doing that in the Raptors forum, and well, it hasn't turned out to well for the Raptors fans.</div>Let me be the first to congratulate you. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't care who you are. The most talented debater in the world could not win an argument about who was more talented, Marvin Williams or Ryan Gomes.</div>Which is why nobody has stated such a ridiculous thing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you really going to make me go into another argument comparing players from the draft's talents and attributes? I've spent all day doing that in the Raptors forum, and well, it hasn't turned out to well for the Raptors fans. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me be the first to congratulate you</div>
