<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Gomes is not your typical 50th pick. He could've gone much sooner, and his chances of starting are exactly the same. 50 is just a number, and it means nothing at all in this and many other instances. 50 is also your favorite rapper. So very sorry to disrespect your favorite team. Save yourself some time and only bring up things that I care about. I don't think anybody has said that Gomes>Williams. Just that Gomes will have a better rookie season. Is it so offensive to say that a 4 year college player and All American will have a better season than a guy who only played one year? I'm pretty sure the Hawks weren't drafting on needs when they picked Williams, but more likely potential. Can we agree on that? Let me be the first to congratulate you. Which is why nobody has stated such a ridiculous thing.</div> Congratulations on the most sarcastic, choppy, baiting-fest I've seen on JBB all year.
So VC are you automatically saying that just b/c Ryan Gomes was drafted 50th and Marvin Williams 2nd makes Marvin the better player immediatly and even with less PT?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">So VC are you automatically saying that just b/c Ryan Gomes was drafted 50th and Marvin Williams 2nd makes Marvin the better player immediatly and even with less PT?</div> Uh, nope. Go back and read my post and you'll see that's almost 180 degrees from what I said.
Nobody has said him yet. Martell Webster. Who else is gonna score next year for the Blazers besides Zach...? Yeah, he will start at two, dont listen to Nash. He hasn't pulled through on anything he has said yet, so I'm guessing Martell will start. From what they spoke of him he is a great player according to workout standards. I got high hopes for this kid, so I'm thinking he's gonna step up and average somewhere around 15 points per game. Portland needs a scorer, he's it.
My choice for Rookie of the Year is Bogut, but he should have some competition from some unlikely sources. I think that Ike Diogu has a very good chance of putting up consistent numbers in Golden State. He is a high energy guy who is really going to benefit from the attention that Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, and Troy Murphy are getting. When Golden St. goes small he is going to be able to use his quickness against some of the slower bigs in this league. He is a lot more talented than people give him credit for. I also think that Francisco Garcia is a very good candidate for an All-Rookie selection. Denver is going to look like fools for passing him up. If Cuttino Mobley leaves next season, this kid is going to replace him and put up some impressive numbers. He has no glaring weaknesses and he competes. Very solid pick by the Kings. Bogut is going to get the minutes and the touches to put up the numbers. He is a very good young (need I remind everyone that he is only 20) player who is going to have an outstanding NBA career. I would be surprised if he didn't average at least 15 and 9 next season. Anyone who believes that Marvin Williams will be Rookie of the Year has been watching too many pre-draft television shows. When an expert actually sits down and watches this kid play they will realize that he is light years away from being a franchise level talent.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Uh, nope. Go back and read my post and you'll see that's almost 180 degrees from what I said.</div> I went back read you post so I ask in the NBA who would put up better stats in their rookie year if and WHEN Gomes gets more PT than Marvin Williams . Wait wait. You said you doubt Gomes because he's a 50 pick, so I can predict your answer. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone who believes that Marvin Williams will be Rookie of the Year has been watching too many pre-draft television shows. When an expert actually sits down and watches this kid play they will realize that he is light years away from being a franchise level talent.</div> Thank you Iron Shiek for providing the correct answer to my question. And how about you giving Wayne Simien as an example. Wayne is better than Marvin at the moment. He was easily a lottery pick, but teams were scared of his injuries in his college career. If he stays healthy he'll be a solid solid pro.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody has said him yet. Martell Webster. Who else is gonna score next year for the Blazers besides Zach...? Yeah, he will start at two, dont listen to Nash. He hasn't pulled through on anything he has said yet, so I'm guessing Martell will start. From what they spoke of him he is a great player according to workout standards. I got high hopes for this kid, so I'm thinking he's gonna step up and average somewhere around 15 points per game. Portland needs a scorer, he's it.</div> Webster is definately not going to be putting up 15 PPG, Portland has Randolph, Miles [even though he might be traded], DA, and even Patterson can score a little. It's not so much that he isn't capable if he get's the shots, but looking at all the players at the swing positions: Outlaw, Miles, Patterson, DA, and Khryapa, Webster is not going to get the minutes needed to get 15 PPG, he'll have to be playing mid-high 30's. Too many people are picking players who have a lot of competition at their position. A guy like Gomes, even if he starts, he'll only be getting about 15-18 MPG, and Pierce, Ricky and Allen will play most of the minutes at the swing positions. Starting doesn't always mean you'll get big minutes. Ike Diogu also, he can be an All-Rookie selection, but he'll have to earn his minutes at PF. He'll still have to beat out Murphy at the PF position, and I don't think GS is just going to give him Murphy's minutes without him earning them, though I feel he can. With Marvin, I don't see why he has to be franchise level talent to win ROY? If he can get minutes on ATL, which he will, he can compete for it, though I don't think he will win it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Too many people are picking players who have a lot of competition at their position. A guy like Gomes, even if he starts, he'll only be getting about 15-18 MPG, and Pierce, Ricky and Allen will play most of the minutes at the swing positions. Starting doesn't always mean you'll get big minutes. Ike Diogu also, he can be an All-Rookie selection, but he'll have to earn his minutes at PF. He'll still have to beat out Murphy at the PF position, and I don't think GS is just going to give him Murphy's minutes without him earning them, though I feel he can. With Marvin, I don't see why he has to be franchise level talent to win ROY? If he can get minutes on ATL, which he will, he can compete for it, though I don't think he will win it.</div> Marvin Williams is on a team whose talent consist of nothing but small forwards. He may get the minutes, but he is going to be playing often times out of position. I'm not sure that he'd be effective in his first season playing his natural position considering I don't think that he has the overwhelming skills to dominate other NBA small forwards. I'm not expecting Diogu to beat out Troy Murphy, but I am expecting him to take a lot of Adonal Foyle's minutes (moving Murphy to the five) and Dunleavy's minutes when they want to go big. Diogu has some perimeter skills and I can see him playing spot minutes at the three. His stock is going to be elevated b/c the Warriors will be one of the most improved teams in the league next year. Don't be surprised if they are able to sneak into playoff contention next season. I don't think that Diogu will be ROY, but I would put him on my all Rookie Team for next season. Raymond Felton (Charlotte's improvement will elevate him over Chris Paul) Deron Williams (Will show that he was the best point guard in this draft) Francisco Garcia (Underrated scorer w/ a variety of skills, will fit well in Sac) Ike Diogu (Ready made power forward who will contribute immediately) Andrew Bogut (Best player in the draft, draws favorable comparisons to T.D.)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">A guy like Gomes, even if he starts, he'll only be getting about 15-18 MPG, and Pierce, Ricky and Allen will play most of the minutes at the swing positions. Starting doesn't always mean you'll get big minutes.</div>Nobody said that Gomes was going to be ROY. CK listed him as a potential selection for the All-Rookie team, that's it.
^ Yea I know, but even for that, I'm not sure if he'll get the minutes neccesary to get it. It's a possiblity, but unless he really shows something, even if he starts, I won't expect too many minutes from him cause Ricky as a backup was already playing 30 MPG, and Tony Allen will have to get on the court at the SG spot too.
My darkhorse was Wayne Simien and I am sticking to that, just as long as Haslem boots it out of Miami... Shaq will get him easy layups and non contested shots. Simien is better shooter than Haslem, maybe not a better rebounder but better overall. I can see him putting up around 10 and 9, maybe better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody said that Gomes was going to be ROY. CK listed him as a potential selection for the All-Rookie team, that's it.</div> Thank you for saying that and yes it's the truth. I feel Gomes is the most ready forward to make an impact in his rookie season thus why he is on my all-rookie team. I never said that Gomes will be a better player then Marvin Williams through the years, that would be crazy. The next forward that would be ready to make an impact in his rookie year would be Wayne Simien, but behind Shaq and Udonis Haslem it looks like his playing time will be limited. I feel we could have ended this whole debate in that one line that 44 said...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You said you doubt Gomes because he's a 50 pick, so I can predict your answer.</div> I never said that. You're putting words into my mouth.
Voodoo Child <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're right though. I doubt Gomes because he's the #50 pick</div> Ahem... apparently I'm not putting words into your mouth.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Voodoo Child Ahem... apparently I'm not putting words into your mouth.</div> Have you no sense for sarcasm? Read the whole post - <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're right though. I doubt Gomes because he's the #50 pick. It's got nothing to do with the fact that Marvin Williams is more talented. </div> Can you seriously not pick up the sarcasm in that post? I'm worried for Canada.
I'm sorry that I can't see sarcasm in a written paragraph. You know usually when sarcasm is used there is a certain tone in the voice... I don't think it's too easy to spot it in a paragraph, especially when it isn't written so it can smack you in the face. I could recognize the sarcasm only when you told me. Call us Canadians stupid... whatever, I'm not trying to start a battle. I apologize Voodoo Child for the simple literature that I could not even recognize. p.s did you catch on to that sarcasm bud? eh?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry that I can't see sarcasm in a written paragraph. You know usually when sarcasm is used there is a certain tone in the voice... I don't think it's too easy to spot it in a paragraph, especially when it isn't written so it can smack you in the face. I could recognize the sarcasm only when you told me. Call us Canadians stupid... whatever, I'm not trying to start a battle. I apologize Voodoo Child for the simple literature that I could not even recognize. p.s did you catch on to that sarcasm bud? eh?</div> Some sarcasm you need to have a different tone in your voice to express, but that was very blatant sarcasm. You're the only one I know who did not pick that up. I gave that quote to at least 15-20 people on AIM, and every single one picked up on the sarcasm. In fact, a few thought it was kind of funny. By the way, if you're venting your anger towards me from the Raptors Forum debate, it's the wrong place to do it on a public forum.
Wow, I see VC has been some arguments after I gave up. So I think I might rejoin this conversation, because VC is a little worn down You should believe me, Deron Williams will win ROY, even over Ryan Gomes Why I believe this guy will get it is simple, he's got everything. Deron Williams can shoot, pass, rebound, and lead a team. Bogut will get stats, but not as much as some think, maybe 14 and 8. I'm ready for the abuse from VC and the others now
No VC, I have no anger from the Raps forum debate... there's no need for any anger. I don't keep grudges. Why would have anger from the Raps forum? I was just saying that you basically took a shot at Canadians, as if I represent the whole Canadian population that's it. I guess I'm now Mr. Canada.
