This pick was all about protecting the #2 and #6 picks. After watching video of Thomas throwing edge rushers around like rag dolls I like the pick. I think most Giants fans felt like me and wanted this year's #1 to be used to improve the awful Oline, nitpicking about which one DG picked because Mel Kiper Jr disagrees is silly, all 4 were going in the first round. The criticism of DG is unfounded unless you're still butthurt about him trading the clubhouse cancer OBJ.
Listening to other places, they made it seem like Thomas was number 4. If PFF had him rated number 1 that is good enough for me. They are the most trustworthy. My draft guide from Ourlads had him rated second. Soldier is a good guy but he sucks now. They can't have him play left tackle. If anything, they need to move him to right tackle if they play again. Looking at my guide, on paper there were some tremendous reaches. Should be a really good player available for us with our second pick. Personally, I think they should go center. However, if somebody like Delpit is there it would be hard to pass up unless they believe Love is their free safety. They also need another WR. Sheppard just misses too much time with concussions. I don't know how much longer he will play.
As far as Lamb to the Cowboys. When your QB is dumb, WR's don't make the difference. You don't want to be paying 3 WR's a lot of money. Personally, I think they are going to get rid of Prescott after this season.
Dump - largely agree with your approach to round 2, but with a couple of caveats. First, depending on how the first 3 picks in RD 2 go I would wait until end of 3rd for a C. There will still be some options then. I think Biadsz is going to keep slipping because of the shoulder/no combine workout. Hennessy is my top C and he might be gone, but there are a few others as well who project to day 1 starters. If Gross-Matos is still on the board at 36 I think he is too good of a player and a fit to pass up. Been awhile since we’ve had a guy who can both play the run and rush the passer equally as well. He would be comfortable standing up in a 3-4 or with a hand on the ground in a 4-3. Add the fact that his PSU position coach is now on Judge’s staff. I have to think they’ve done a lot of homework on him. This defense lacks playmakers and GM spent a ton of time in the offense’s backfield past few years. He’s a disrupter. The Iowa DE is not as flashy but could be a safe pick at 36 for some defensive presence in the front 7. The safety talent is definitely tempting. Delpit would be very hard to pass up as wold McKinney though he is more of a box safety. Love could be the FS of the future but he has never played there before. Corner at Notre Dame, box safety fill in for Peppers last year. But he looked to me like he had the range and tools to play the free as well. I’m sick of the trash we’ve been playing in center field past few years (Bethea, Curtis Riley). This team needs a ballhawk back there. Love could be it, and I’m willing to wait a bit on a safety for some more pass rush help. We are barren there. If they go Winfield, it’s because they think he can bump between top safety and slot corner. Slot corner is another hole this team has. If I’m a betting man, Gross-Matos is the pick if he’s on the board.
Yeah, I was thinking about Gross-Matos but we play the 3-4. I would rather have LB's with 4.5 speed and size in that system. I think it depends on whether they think Carter and Ximines are the answer there and will take a big step up.
Thought DG would go with a center but hard to pass on talent like McKinnon. Like Thomas another guy with the opportunity to step right in and start.
Here is my bottom line on all of this. If you took a large group of T rankings from ESPN, and NFL Network, and CBS Sports and averaged them out, Thomas was 4th. Now sure there were some places (or specific individuals) that ranked him 1st and maybe 2nd, but overall he was generally 4th when you did averages, and the larger # of individuals had him ranked 3rd or 4th of the 4. For example ESPN had 11 guys rank the 4 T's. 4 points for # 1, 3 points for # 2, and so on, and guess what...Thomas was 4th. There also was no other T taken until pick # 10. Again value? With that said I am over it. It is what it is now. Like I mentioned, I do expect Thomas to be a solid player. The bust factor is very low. He is best suited to play LT now out of the 4. The Giants badly needed an upgrade at T, so huge need filled. Now I don't think he'll be the best or 2nd best OL taken of the big 4 in this draft, and he will not be # 4 pick worthy when the dust settles in a few years, but that doesn't matter now. Needed a T, took a T, and he was their preference (taken too early or not the highest rated is irrelevant now). They took the guy they had rated the highest, so we'll see how it pans out. For Giants fans sake I hope he is a Pro Bowl LT, which he needs to be in order to validate # 4.
My bigger focus now is Gettleman simply has to go. Having a GM like Gettleman in this day and age doesn't work. Today's world is fast paced. Being nimble. Trading up. Then quickly trading back. Packaging picks to move around and get certain players. MAXIMIZING VALUE. Gettleman does none of these things. He is a 1992 GM. Just look at his picks. Not going to list them again, but it is clear he doesn't understand how to bounce around and be nimble in a draft. He takes positions too early (RB at # 2). He reaches for players who clearly can be had later (Jones & Thomas). I think it's because he is stubborn, falls in love with players and board/value be damned, and doesn't know how to be nimble enough to maneuver around a draft board. This is what you get from a guy like Gettleman. Rigid and stuck in the past. The results have sucked. He says things, and then does the opposite, and it is not because he is smart and playing it close to the vest (OBJ trade/hog mollies - and there are other examples - for the record I liked the OBJ trade - that guy was a cancer and still is today). The guy is not made for today, and this is where owner loyalty hurts the Giants. Gettleman 100% should have been gone after this past season, but nope not in Mara's opinion. I'm sure people will say I am wrong, and that's fine, these are all opinions, but results and the way he has handled the draft board (never traded down in his career) prove otherwise.
You're complete moron. His picks so far have been brilliant. His drafts have been tremendous. He took the number 1 and 10 rated tackles by pro football focus and the 2nd rated safety. Pro football focus is really one of two places you look to evaluate players. The opinions of the mental midgets covering the draft mean nothing. The OL sucked beyond belief. He added what should be a franchise left tackle, a very good safety and possibly an very good right tackle in Peart who is very talented. He might get his center in Biadasz if he falls today. So sick of assclown thinking like yours that the game is played differently now. Fucking stupid thinking and total bullshit. The teams that win SuperBowls basically every year have high IQ, pocket passing QB's, very good OL's and big physical defenses. Spoiled, asswipe Giants fan are complaining about a GM who took just 2 years to take you from one franchise QB to another when some teams have been looking for a franchise QB for decades. This team had nothing when Gettleman got here. No RB, no QB, no DL, no OL, no secondary and crappy special teams. Yet, local asswipe media and fans think he would fix it in a year or two. Get a clue. Idiots like Lamar Jackson are all the same. They run, wow people into thinking the game is different then they get their leg bent the wrong way and they turn into half ass schmucks. The game is the same as it always has been.
" ESPN, and NFL Network, and CBS Sports and averaged them out, Thomas was 4th" This is why you have no clue. All those above are full of dumb fucks who know nothing about evaluating talent. The only two things to look at are Pro Football Focus and Ourlads scouting services. Looking anywhere else is beyond stupid.
What our eloquent self-righteous loud mouth also failed to mention is that just because he didn't trade back doesn't mean he didn't try. You do realize you need to find a partner will to trade with you, right? If you look at the top 10 picks they were all very predictable and very boring and no team HAD to move to get who they wanted. Pretty sure Gettleman even said that he couldn't find a team willing to trade up to 4 that made a decent enough offer. Would you rather he accept a bad trade offer just so he wouldn't have had to take the tackle at 4? Non-sense. Giants had a good draft so far and to complain about it at this point and call for his firing is, as Kreider would say, fucking stupid.
You guys are comical and predictable. Name calling and being obnoxious is par for the course in here. Really shows the maturity level I expected. No surprise really. And once again tells the story of why there are about 5 or so regular posters in here. Wait someone disagrees, let's call them names. And all of these experts suck, only the ones who agree with me, even though there are far fewer of those, are good. That is funny. Also have you seen the results of Gettleman as Giants GM. This board is stuck in a weird time warp. Most Giants fans know he has done a terrible job. Yet in here you guys somehow think he has done well. Not much to say.
I was calling him a self-righteous loud mouth, not you. But it was still name calling, so I guess your point is well made. However, I noticed you completely glossed over the point I made. Gettleman TRIED to trade back but, couldn't find a taker that made an acceptable offer. NOT HIS FAULT. What would you have had him do? Apart from where they drafted Thomas...Look at their picks so far and tell me if any of the any holes on their team were addressed.
Not a fan of the CB pick. We had enough. That was the first pick I didn't care for. Before that I like the draft a ton. Our OL blows and our FS has sucked ass for years.
DG stated his attention was focused on fixing the Oline once and for all and he drafted a ready to play LT, if he'd gone rogue and drafted a LB Chuck's mental assessment might hold water. The fact that no trades were made at all in the first round should logically eliminate the argument that DG blew it with the 4th pick but who needs logic on an opinion board right? Also disagree with Chuck's demand that Thomas be an all Pro LT, that argument only hold water if one of the other 3 make all Pro at LT - then you could argue DG blew the pick. 3rd round Peart again addressing the Oline, played 48 games at both RT/LT - a great pick lost in a tackle rich draft and then Lemieux. DG said he was focused on the Oline and his draft showed it. The Giants have stunk for a lot longer than 2 years and as Grevy pointed out had huge holes DG had to fill when he was hired. I couldn't be happier with Jones and Barklley but like most fans have been frustrated by the inability of the line to run or pass block. Finally a GM has focused a draft on improving the most important part of the offense.
They play the 3-4 and took a ton of LB's late. I was disappointed in this draft they didn't take one WR. Sheppard has major concussion issues. They need some WR's for depth. However, I loved the OL picks. That was the number one issue IMO. Number 2 was our FS has sucked for years. It has screwed us over on 3rd and longs for years. Finally a legit player at that position.
I really don't understand the kid glove treatment of Gettleman. If Thomas is a solid T, but 1 or 2 or all 3 of the other top T's are Pro Bowl players I don't get why that won't be a knock on him. He picked his T 6 picks before any other T went. He picked the T he liked best. If he is wrong on that, and Thomas is ether an average or worse player, unlikely that happens as I wrote, or 1/2/3 of the other T's are better, that is a huge indictment of Gettleman. It's his job to get that right. Did I miss when that wasn't his job? I think everyone can see that except the guys in here for some odd reason. And BTW, when you take a T at # 4, six picks before any other T is taken, yeah I expect that player to be a Pro Bowl LT. I don't think that expectation from the # 4 pick is outrageous. But with the low bar you guys set for Gettleman, I guess it is. I also think you guys seem to struggle with the concept of value. 4 T's are rated around the same. Just factually speaking when you take a bunch of draft guys and average out their rankings of the 4, Thomas was not 1 or 2. Yet Gettleman took him at # 4, a full 6 spots ahead of any other T. Again that has to make you say okay did we maximize value. To me he has now not maximized 1st round value in 3 straight drafts. Taking a RB at # 2 is not maximizing value. In today's game RB's do not go # 2. It does not positionally make sense, double so when your team is very far away from competing, and triple so when you had no future QB at that point. Then he takes Jones at # 6 when he was not close to the 6th ranked player in the draft. He could have been had many picks later. The next QB didn't go until pick 15. Now he follows that up with taking 1 of 4 T's all rated around the same, with the # 4 pick. Next T not taken until # 10. I am a fan of Barkley, and think he is great. I think Jones has a chance to be a very good QB, and maybe even better than that. And as I wrote I think Thomas will be a very solid pro worst case. So to me this is more than just is the guy a good player or not. It is about maximizing value, showing you are nimble, making moves to increase your draft odds and flexibility. To me Gettleman has shown none of those things. The discussion is over for now. I think we have all made our opinions known. We disagree, so be it. Now we'll see how it plays out. If Thomas is the best, or worst case 2nd best T out of this draft, that is awesome. If some of the other picks turn out to be very good/solid players, that is awesome as well. Only time will tell.
For the record, I like the OL focus. I think Lemieux can be a good pick if he can play C, and it sounds like he'll give that a try. McKinney is a great pick, and watching him and reading about him it sounds like he can play many roles and be a very good player for us. Adding a nickel CB in round 4 seems solid. And then going heavy on LB's in the later round makes sense, especially since some can rush the passer. So I like the approach, now let's see how it plays out. McKinney, 6-foot-1, 201 pounds, was one of four college players in 2019 with 100 or more snaps at inside linebacker, outside linebacker, safety and cornerback. “I consider myself a DB,” McKinney said. “A DB is somebody that can play safety, free safety, corner, slot nickel, anywhere. I’m a versatile DB, that’s how I consider myself.”
No struggles here Chuck, just see draft value as a conjured opinion stat. I think we all get that you hate DG but please stop referencing draft values to bolster your argument , teams value players primarily by their individual needs and draft accordingly . The Giants needed a RB and QB when Barkley was drafted and correctly chose SB and he has played as advertised, won rookie of the year and filled a huge hole on offense but he was a bad value pick? Come on man! Detroit drafted a shutdown CB at #3 - good draft value or were they desperate for pass coverage help? You've made it abundantly clear you hate DG but seem to have a short memory about how bad the Giants were when DG took over and had to deal with the $100 mil defense who were run off the field by the Rams last time the Giants made the playoffs. Total rebuilds take a few years and if you were to ask me if DG is taking the Giants in the right direction I'd say yes but if the Giants keep floundering DG will go.
Seems the CB they drafted 4th has crazy ability to cover the small, quick, shifty slot receivers that we have sucked at covering for years. Pick makes more sense now. Agree Panzer. When Gettleman took over the team had no RB, no future QB, no OL, no DL, no LB's, no secondary and no special teams. The team sucked in every area. He's starting to turn that around quickly.
