No Trade -- What a Disappointment

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">With the exception of the Artest deal, I wouldn't want any of the others, personally.

None of those big men are addition by subtraction. I'd rather give Ike minutes over any of those 4. I think waiting until the offseason where contracts are of more trade value is a smart move. Plus, the Warriors have 2 1st rounders to play around with. I wouldn't be surprised to see a major trade this offseason.</div>

I disagree because good teams constantly try to improve themselves. They don't stand pat.

Of course, the Warriors couldn't make too many moves like this even if they wanted to because of the cap. Mullin, speaking for Cohan, may go over the lux tax, but that won't be for guys like these who'll come in and help now or in the future.

Let's face it, Mullin made an error in evaluating the current starting talent and compounded it by giving them big bucks. He still is in denial imho as he refuses to realize his mistakes.

First, we have Foyle as the starting center. There's something horribly wrong right there despite his exorbitant contract. Foyle doesn't rebound and has one of the worse hands ever for a center. His hands may be petrified rock compared to Erick Dampier's stone hands.

Second, Mike Dunleavy Jr. has underachieved. Now he's the backup SF and he's still I-N-C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T which has been his problem since the get go. He didn't live up being the #3 pick and now is not exactly earning his huge raise.

Third, we have Troy Murphy. I think Murf has been giving what the Warriors need, but just not enough of it. He's been seeming lacking in effort at times and while he has been getting his dub-dubs, he needs to pass the rock more and not just be the guy who launches shots. Sure, if he could shoot like Dirk Nowitski, then it would be a different story, but he just doesn't have that kind of production. He needs to pass the rock more and look for better shot selection.

Finally, we have Baron, JRich and Fisher, the co-captains of this team. Do these guys lead this team at all? It sure doesn't look like it unless it's to launch 3-balls. They need to step up and make sure the team's getting good shots and maybe sacrificing some of their game for the good of all. Instead of playing as a team, these guys been playing selfish and too individual.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">
Let's face it, Mullin made an error in evaluating the current starting talent and compounded it by giving them big bucks. He still is in denial imho as he refuses to realize his mistakes.
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I am not sure if he has made an error in evaluating the talent that the team has individually. I just think that the talent isn't very well balanced or built with players that play greatly together, along with the coaching being below par in my opinion, makes that situation many times worse. Wait, nevermind, Dunleavy's contract extention and Foyle's contract makes my point kind of bad...

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Finally, we have Baron, JRich and Fisher, the co-captains of this team. Do these guys lead this team at all? It sure doesn't look like it unless it's to launch 3-balls. They need to step up and make sure the team's getting good shots and maybe sacrificing some of their game for the good of all. Instead of playing as a team, these guys been playing selfish and too individual.</div>

I agree greatly. Tonight Derek Fisher, the starting PG takes 22 shots, and only has 4 assists. Maybe the PG shooting a lot of shots is the strategy by the coaching staff. If it is or if it isn't, they are still allowing it to happen so either way it's kind of a blame on the coaching staff, maybe not all the blame, but some of it.

It's really insane how this team went from being extremely hopeful into being a team that is actually kind of hopeless...

 

Chris Mullin was on the Ralph and Tom Tolbert show for about 40 minutes yesterday. Couple things:

1. Though lots of phone calls were made and received no deal was made because it was not enough of a difference maker to do. Mullin emphasized that he will not deal just to deal and that deals need to significantly improve the team over where they are currently, essentially no tweaking.

2. In response to a direct question regarding the Montgomery higher, it was Mullin's hire with no input from Cohan. In fact Mullin stated he introduced Montgomery to Cohan. He also stated that even if the Warriors do not make the playoffs Montgomery will be back. Upshot is that Montgomery could outlast several on the roster.

 

Speaking of fisher was i alone in watching him air ball 3 lay ups. 2 break away. and miss 9 lay ups total. Most which did not draw iron.

He started the second half handing the ball off to the wrong team.

I have been praying the Warriors management gets a clue since the unforgivable signing of that moron.

Fisher is a waste of roster space, for the rare moment he helps us, he usually has already cost us with bad decisions, both passing and shot selection, poor handles and absolutely horrific defense.

In trading Fisher we improve our team vastly no matter who we get in return.

And you should add San Antonio, not that they need him, But like Cle, Miami and hou they are the only other team Fisher fits with. He needs a low post threat that draws double and triple teams to free him for the only thing he can actually do. Hit a spot up set shot.

I dont see any other team taking him and i believe we are stuck with him for the remainder of his contract. WE should have Allan houston'd his ass before the season began.

I predict as long as Fisher is on the roster and a member of the Warriors we will not see the playoffs. The only way i can even fathom it is if Fisher gets a career ending injury. The only way he can benefit our team is to get injured or to be traded. Sad to say. Perhaps a bit harsh. But the truth.

 

Wow, how funny I just saw this :


Golden State's Derek Fisher is another guard who drew considerable interest at the deadline, even though Fisher has four seasons left on his contract after this one at more than $26 million. Reason being: Fisher is a vet with championship experience who'd be a strong Sixth Man Award candidate if the Warriors weren't fading out of playoff contention. ESPN.com

A line for Fisher, though, is nothing new since he left the Lakers to sign with the Warriors. Miami was foremost among the teams that were disappointed last summer after Golden State elected not to use the onetime "amnesty" clause on Fisher to waive him and thereby avoid paying any further luxury tax on his contract. NBA front-office sources say the Heat, at Shaquille O'Neal's behest, were eager for a shot to sign Shaq's former L.A. teammate. ESPN.com


I will say he is the greatest player we have ever signed if it will make the Heat take him off our hands.

Ok, so i need some educating here. IS it possible to waive Fisher? Would the Warriors still be responsible for his contract? Or are they only responsible til he signs with another team? Sort of like in Baseball. In other words, is there any way to move Fisher or do we have to wait til the off season.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting anotherview:</div><div class="quote_post">Chris Mullin was on the Ralph and Tom Tolbert show for about 40 minutes yesterday. Couple things:

1. Though lots of phone calls were made and received no deal was made because it was not enough of a difference maker to do. Mullin emphasized that he will not deal just to deal and that deals need to significantly improve the team over where they are currently, essentially no tweaking.

2. In response to a direct question regarding the Montgomery higher, it was Mullin's hire with no input from Cohan. In fact Mullin stated he introduced Montgomery to Cohan. He also stated that even if the Warriors do not make the playoffs Montgomery will be back. Upshot is that Montgomery could outlast several on the roster.</div>

I'm disappointed Mullin hired Monty and didn't interview other coaches in the process. Also, am chagrined to hear that Monty will stay on .

Eric Musselman had a lesser team and was fired by Mullin after two seasons. Yet Monty is projected to have similar records as EMu if not worse in his two years here and already he gets a vote of confidence.

If Monty was a decent coach, then I wouldn't mind but he's gotta be one of the WORSE coaches in the NBA. He may have been a very good college coach, but he's in over his head in the NBA.

Monty's not the only problem on this team, but having a good coach would go a long way in trying to fix the others.

Maybe Mario Elie or Keith Smart deserve a shot here, if not elsewhere. If not them, then Doug Collins (turnaround artist), Paul Silas (had trouble with Baron before) or Terry Porter (former Bucks coach) should be given consideration.

 

I am not against stability. But look at the last three months, and there is definitley not stability on the court. If there isn't stability short term, how is there going to be stability long term? I'll pass on giving examples of this since it's been repeated so many times before. But basically Mike Montgomery usually has no answers, his teams lack preperation, and he is bad at so many things.

The thing that I kind of see is how Montgomery and Mullin really are kind of on the same page of thinking. The duo typically rely too much on talent. As a GM, this isn't bad, or for Mullin as VP of personale. But the problem with this is that the coaching maybe relies too much on playing just the talented players rather then being creative or really understanding the roster as a whole, and creating matchups to create advantages for all the players on the team, all which I think are flaws in Mike Montgomery as a head coach.

I think this could be why Mullin didn't like Musselman, or at least his ideas. Musselman was more for how the team played. He emphasized defense, hustle, and extreme preperation for games(who knows if this was a show, but remember that half time segment of the Warriors locker room and all of the film and stuff they saw during that time, he's crazy about that kind of stuff I think). Mullin on the other hand seems kind of more into just letting the talent be talent and let it grow as it will without more pressure from the coach than what there could be in part of playing in the NBA and all the travel and extraneous work.

The other part, could be that he doesn't want to screw around with the team too much by saying Mike Montgomery won't be back next year. So maybe it's just a hoax. I mean if he were to say that Mike wouldn't be back next year, maybe people wouldn't listen to him, though this is a question right now I think for the players.

And creating a stable environment for the young players is key, if you are trying to be the Montreal Expos of the NBA or unless if you are the Portland Trail Blazers(they have extreme young players there). OR if you are trying to get them to play smarter and actually played them and gave them the proper opportunities to play and perform.

I think I am more for the Greg Popavic/Eric Musselman no B.S. coaching, rather than the Mike Montgomery, let it be, coaching. I think the Popavic/Musselman coaches would be man enough too, to put more of an emphasis to prepare their teams better than the other coaches. I kind of liked how Pat Reily actually blamed himself for a loss, and said he didn't prepare his team or strategize well enough after one of the losses earler in the year. I don't care if Mike Montgomery said the same things or not, but I'd at least hope that he'd think it. It sure beats saying at the end of games how the team looked out of energy, yet when you look at the box score there were only 7 players on the team that played signifigant/any minutes(the 7 tired players at the end of the game).

 

I think we've been counting our chickens before they've hatched the entire season. Even if we had Musselman, we'd still be missing from the playoffs I'd bet. Musselman fits this club a lot better, but he can't win game by himself. We didn't play like a team back then and we don't play like a team now. It's hard to go from poor to rich and fans are just being unreasonable what they can expect Montgomery to do. No being prepared? That's bull. Matchups? For everytime we put in scoring, we can't play the defense. Everytime we put in defense, we can't score. What about lack of free throw shooting losing the game for us yesterday? We could have won that game if we shot better than 50% from the foul line. Nobody says anything about that and it's absolutely ridiculous. The 2002 team with Jamison and Arenas shot better free throws than a 2004-2006 offense dominated by Jrich and Baron.

 

If I have to bet, I would bet Muss would have made PO with this group. Argument can be made that Muss' first year and Monty's right now has similar talent level, but there is no question that Muss' second year was far inferior in terms of talent level. After all, all he had was inferior version of Richardson, Dampier with career year, Speedy who missed 22 games, including crucial games that caused 9 games losing streaks and ended PO run, utterly ineffective NVE, Murphy (56 games) and Foyle (38 games) missed chunk of season, always dependable Robinson, and surprising Cardinals. Also, at that year, we shot 72.4% at line and we are shooting 71.7% right now.

I don't believe Monty isn't preparing for games or anything. Also, I think Mullin really put Monty in a situation where there is little chance for Monty to succeed. But then, Monty also didn't show a good reason why we should keep him for next year. The team is losing energy level ever since December, and it didn't pick up ever since. As a matter of fact, this team is in slide and players seem to give up little by little. Also, what I am suprirsed is that Monty is quite slow at adapting the situation considering how he maximized lesser talented players in Stanford. We are slowly adjusting first quarter woes or rebounds. But, those happens like 20 games after the problem occured. I don't know whether he is just slow at adjusting or players aren't just listening. But, either way, it's not a good sign for a coach.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">I am not sure if he has made an error in evaluating the talent that the team has individually. I just think that the talent isn't very well balanced or built with players that play greatly together, along with the coaching being below par in my opinion, makes that situation many times worse. Wait, nevermind, Dunleavy's contract extention and Foyle's contract makes my point kind of bad...</div>

In other word, Mullin knows the talent, but doesn't know how to create a winning team... Many fans rejoiced when Saint was fired, but it seems like we hired worse one then...

I know stability can be a good thing. But, I won't exactly call cementing the roster for next few years with hefty salaries a stability. Besides, when good things happen by stablizing the roster, nobody will complain. But, when bad things constantly happen, shouldn't you at least poke the roster a little? Just to save the season? When your car starts to roll backward at one of hill in San Francisco, shouldn't you hit the break or at least change the direction a bit, instead of saying "Honey, we will be OK, because we aren't doing anything"? Hope we aren't throwing the towel at this point. I don't know if this is the most disappointing season I experienced. At least last few years, I didn't have a big expectation to be busted...

 

My Recall Cohan shirt has officially been brought out of retirement.

Kwan, We don't need to rehash our opinions of Saint. He actually made the best of a nightmare situation. And I agree with your point on Muss because He'd do wonders with Davis as his point guard. Plus, the team never fizzled in the 4th with him. I'm not sure if the team would be in as many games with him instead of with monty, but with this squad, I think they could run a lot of teams out of the building. Honestly... I'm so angry right now... there's no way to really express it.

 

I'd browsed the trade boards at Real GM a lot before the deadline,and about half the deals W's fans suggested were just brutal,we'd be overcommited to one aging star stripped of our budget friendly young guns and we'd toss off picks like spare change. Great,we give a bunch for Artest..in 6 mo. we have an "incident' and there's press coferences,finger pointing,then his contract expires and we get to match bids with teams that just had big contracts expire. Odds are we add a bit,temporarily to our win total,then get friction,ending Monty's NBA career a bit quicker,then Artest bolts. We see a good talent taken with OUR #1...by Indy,we see Ike back like he was vs the Pistons,and Murph,or Pietrus getting better and better.

I saw plenty of the usual Knick's robberie...We'd unload Foyle,but it costs Pietrus and a pick and we get Crawford's erratic game till 2011,and Jerome James for ballast. Even the Knicks don't find those guys useful.

I still do NOT see us failing to keep Pietrus,Biedrens. We are going to have to move Dunleavy or Foyle,or Fisher,and if we can move them all...sweet. Foyle's D is a selling point,but this team has to play better for it to sell well. Some teams may have seen more "good" Fish,less "bad" Fish,and his deal isn't a budget buster by itself. Dunleavy...now that IS brutal with his play this season,he should have to buy a ticket to get in the arena.

 

Well glad you stopped by old REM. Always good to have a long-time basketball fan that understands the game sharing some input and teaching us all something about the game.

It's definitely panic button season. I've certainly been there and done that. For some reason I still though NVE/Claxton was one of the best backcourts we've had because we at least had a motivated Dampier in his contract year and Clif Robinson at PF. Man that's two one-time allstars in the lineup right there and a decent center. Plus we had a point guard that couldn't shoot 3-pointers so he was forced to take it inside. NVE proved he could make the inside guy a lot better.

Now if we had that inside guy, damn I think Baron could prove he can make the big man a lot better. But nobody plays inside! They're not even getting close enough position to the hoop for that easy drop step move or short hook.