Nurk Fever - second wave?

[Scalma]

DBPM is a terrible advanced stat that's way too dependent upon steals and blocks.

Players that average at least 1 steal and 1 block per game

Herbert Jones
Thybulle
KAT
LeBron
Draymond
Embiid
Giannis
JJJ
Roco

So 9 players in the entire league. The vast majority of that list are plus defenders, so getting blocks AND steals probably does equal good defense.

 

[andalusian]

Very poor take at best. 6% of his possessions are blocks and steals so 94% are bad? Nope.

That's not how BPM is calculated.

You have to remember the following:

The Stats for the BPM are calculated based in relation to the other players on the team (so if the team has very few shot blockers for example, even a mediocre shot blocker's value would be increased) - in addition, the regression is based on position played.

I would certainly pay attention to basketball reference's own notes on BPM - https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html

"Box Plus/Minus is good at measuring offense and solid overall, but the defensive numbers in particular should not be considered definitive"

I would argue that RoCo was a good defender last year, has definitely seemed to have been pretty poor earlier this year - but seems to have recovered some since - have not seen enough to say if it is all the way to where he was before. He still seems to be a decent defensive player at worst, but even last year he was more of a good team/help defender than an individual defender.

 

[wizenheimer]

Very poor take at best. 6% of his possessions are blocks and steals so 94% are bad? Nope.

agreed:









I guess this is where somebody says stats can be misleading. But it is a less credible claim when all the stats say the same thing

the only mitigation is that those compare him to the rest of the team and that's a low standard

 

[Scalma]

Players that average at least 1 steal and 1 block per game

Herbert Jones
Thybulle
KAT
LeBron
Draymond
Embiid
Giannis
JJJ
Roco

So 9 players in the entire league. The vast majority of that list are plus defenders, so getting blocks AND steals probably does equal good defense.

actually if you take it further and just count non centers, the list is

Thybulle
Jones
Giannis
Lebron
Draymond
Roco

So you’re telling me it’s all first team caliber defenders except for RoCo? Yeah, I’m gonna have to disagree there.

 

[BonesJones]

Very poor take at best. 6% of his possessions are blocks and steals so 94% are bad? Nope.

What the fuck? I never said that because 6% of his possessions are blocks and steals automatically means that the other 94% is bad. Just that 6% of his defense is just that: a very small percentage of possessions. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

That's not how BPM is calculated.

You have to remember the following:

The Stats for the BPM are calculated based in relation to the other players on the team (so if the team has very few shot blockers for example, even a mediocre shot blocker's value would be increased) - in addition, the regression is based on position played.

I would certainly pay attention to basketball reference's own notes on BPM - https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm2.html

"Box Plus/Minus is good at measuring offense and solid overall, but the defensive numbers in particular should not be considered definitive"

I would argue that RoCo was a good defender last year, has definitely seemed to have been pretty poor earlier this year - but seems to have recovered some since - have not seen enough to say if it is all the way to where he was before. He still seems to be a decent defensive player at worst, but even last year he was more of a good team/help defender than an individual defender.

Guess you didn't read the comment completely. It says "Nope" at the end.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

agreed:

View attachment 44146

View attachment 44147

View attachment 44148

View attachment 44149

I guess this is where somebody says stats can be misleading. But it is a less credible claim when all the stats say the same thing

the only mitigation is that those compare him to the rest of the team and that's a low standard

Defense is played as a team. One player breaking down can lead to a total collapse and it can even make another player look really bad. Players around him do matter. Overall defensive work ethic and just plain hustle make a huge difference. We have all watched a bad team play three or four good possessions in a row when they are locked in.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

What the fuck? I never said that because 6% of his possessions are blocks and steals automatically means that the other 94% is bad. Just that 6% of his defense is just that: a very small percentage of possessions. Don't put words in my mouth.

What the fuck????
You literally did.

Blocks and steals make up 6% of his defensive possessions, what about the other 94%? He was rough

It may not say what you meant but yes, that is exactly what you said. This is not semantics either. This is word for word.

 

[BonesJones]

What the fuck????
You literally did.

It may not say what you meant but yes, that is exactly what you said. This is not semantics either. This is word for word.

Yeah you completely misread that. I'm saying that 6% isn't a big enough sample size to determine how good or bad of a defender he is. Somehow you made that out as me saying any possession he doesn't get a steal or block is bad...

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Yeah you completely misread that. I'm saying that 6% isn't a big enough sample size to determine how good or bad of a defender he is. Somehow you made that out as me saying any possession he doesn't get a steal or block is bad...

Yeah that's it. It was me that misread that. Now who is putting words into someone's mouth?
What i said was QUOTE "Very poor take at best".

I agree with you on "Blocks and Steals do not always make a great defender". CJ pretty much proves this.

 

[BonesJones]

Yeah that's it. It was me that misread that. Now who is putting words into someone's mouth?
What i said was QUOTE "Very poor take at best".

I agree with you on "Blocks and Steals do not always make a great defender". CJ pretty much proves this.

You literally said "6% of his possessions are blocks and steals so 94% are bad?" as if I said that shit...

Then you agree with what I was saying all along after running with some wild misinterpretation. I'm just gonna assume this is an elaborate troll-job.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

You literally said "6% of his possessions are blocks and steals so 94% are bad?" as if I said that shit...

Then you agree with what I was saying all along after running with some wild misinterpretation. I'm just gonna assume this is an elaborate troll-job.

Another poor take at best but who's counting?
First you say i misread what you actually wrote when what you wrote is exactly what i commented on.
Then you say i said something that i never said because all i said was your take was poor.
Now you are saying it's a wild misinterpretation?
So I'm a troll and you think i actually came up with some elaborate scheme to troll you like you are important enough for me to do something like that?
Okay.
I'm gonna agree to disagree here and no i didn't agree with what you were saying all along. I actually made sense with it when i directed it at CJ instead of Covington.

 

[BonesJones]

Another poor take at best but who's counting?
First you say i misread what you actually wrote when what you wrote is exactly what i commented on.
Then you say i said something that i never said because all i said was your take was poor.
Now you are saying it's a wild misinterpretation?
So I'm a troll and you think i actually came up with some elaborate scheme to troll you like you are important enough for me to do something like that?
Okay.
I'm gonna agree to disagree here and no i didn't agree with what you were saying all along. I actually made sense with it when i directed it at CJ instead of Covington.

I was moreso hoping for best case scenario but if you don't see how you questioning "6% of his possessions are blocks and steals so 94% are bad?" is making it out like I'm saying any possession he doesn't get a steal or block is bad then I can't spell this out any other way. This is silly. I'm done with this.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I was moreso hoping for best case scenario but if you don't see how you questioning "6% of his possessions are blocks and steals so 94% are bad?" is making it out like I'm saying any possession he doesn't get a steal or block is bad then I can't spell this out any other way. This is silly. I'm done with this.

hows Nurk been doing in your eyes? Im still really torn on him if he is a pc of the championship puzzle or not.

 

[BonesJones]

hows Nurk been doing in your eyes? Im still really torn on him if he is a pc of the championship puzzle or not.

He's been fine. Nothing too great or too negative from me. Seems really engaged lately though.

 

[Hoopguru]

Steals + Blocks does not equal good defense. I've seen RoCo let his guy drive past him numerous times just so he can try to reach around for a steal. Blocks and steals make up 6% of his defensive possessions, what about the other 94%? He was rough defensively for the majority of this season.

Bones, to be fair Ive watched every player on this team allow players to drive past them and it happens with a good percentage of all players on all teams. We dont have an elite defensive player on the team, not even Naz Ive seem him get blown by many times and out of position many times.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Bones, to be fair Ive watched every player on this team allow players to drive past them and it happens with a good percentage of all players on all teams. We dont have an elite defensive player on the team, not even Naz Ive seem him get blown by many times and out of position many times.

I agree. Did you see Miami in that stretch where they overcame us? They played our ballhandlers really tight and we just couldn't seem to get past them at all. Those guys know how to play defense!

 

[Hoopguru]

I agree. Did you see Miami in that stretch where they overcame us? They played our ballhandlers really tight and we just couldn't seem to get past them at all. Those guys know how to play defense!

Watch guys like Butler and Brooks and how they play tight and move their feet.

 

[BonesJones]

Bones, to be fair Ive watched every player on this team allow players to drive past them and it happens with a good percentage of all players on all teams. We dont have an elite defensive player on the team, not even Naz Ive seem him get blown by many times and out of position many times.

I don't disagree at all

 

[Mr. Robot]

nurk is a force to be reckoned with right now

hopefully chauncey billups wont fuck it up

 

[LayneStaley]

Nurk is fool’s gold, we get a wave of beast Nurk every season. We lucked out this season with it being so close to the trade deadline.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Nurk is fool’s gold, we get a wave of beast Nurk every season. We lucked out this season with it being so close to the trade deadline.

He's not hurt yet at least.

 

[Hoopguru]

Nurk is fool’s gold, we get a wave of beast Nurk every season. We lucked out this season with it being so close to the trade deadline.

Whom do you want to see at center that is a realistic get?

 

[Scalma]

There are less than 10 centers in the league that average a double double. Of that group, the only ones that also average over 2.5 apg and 1.0 spg are Embiid, Vucevic, and Jokic. There just aren’t many centers in the league with a more rounded skill set. He also makes everyone around him better. Just look at what happens when his usage rate goes up. We win more games. I’d argue he makes people around him better more than anyone on our team. The attention he draws in the post, the reads he makes, even out of doubles ie skip passes to chest on the opposite end of the court, the space he creates with his screens, his work on the glass, etc etc.

Nurk fluctuates from good and great, but his baseline is objectively good. That doesn’t mean he won’t have stinkers from time to time, but that applies to literally every other player in the league.

Good luck finding someone better. Pay him his money and clear up the clutter at guard. There is no reason to be paying four scoring guards with average defense at best 100M+ while not investing into your impact two way center.

 

[Orion Bailey]

He's been fine. Nothing too great or too negative from me. Seems really engaged lately though.

kicked serious as last night!

 

[Hoopguru]

There are less than 10 centers in the league that average a double double. Of that group, the only ones that also average over 2.5 apg and 1.0 spg are Embiid, Vucevic, and Jokic. There just aren’t many centers in the league with a more rounded skill set. He also makes everyone around him better. Just look at what happens when his usage rate goes up. We win more games. I’d argue he makes people around him better more than anyone on our team. The attention he draws in the post, the reads he makes, even out of doubles ie skip passes to chest on the opposite end of the court, the space he creates with his screens, his work on the glass, etc etc.

Nurk fluctuates from good and great, but his baseline is objectively good. That doesn’t mean he won’t have stinkers from time to time, but that applies to literally every other player in the league.

Good luck finding someone better. Pay him his money and clear up the clutter at guard. There is no reason to be paying four scoring guards with average defense at best 100M+ while not investing into your impact two way center.

You cant have a 6-8/9” center in the WC and expect to be competitive.

 

[Strenuus]

nurk is a force to be reckoned with right now

hopefully chauncey billups wont fuck it up

Hopefully nurk gets traded. He will be back to his normal inconsistency in a couple weeks.

 

[Scalma]

Hopefully nurk gets traded. He will be back to his normal inconsistency in a couple weeks.

You would know about inconsistency.

I love nurk and to a lesser extent Dame just flat out saying changes need to happen.

I really like what Chauncey is saying about using nurk as a distributor.... now let's actually see it.

I'd rather keep nurk and have Wiseman learn for another year, personally. Unless you did mean this and I apologize lol.

Nurk is fucking garbage. Getting out muscled down low every fucking time.

 

[Freshtown]

Now would be a great time to sell high on Nurk for a better rim protector.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Now would be a great time to sell high on Nurk for a better rim protector.

It would have to be for more than just a rim protector. The issues I have with Nurk are the turnovers and when he pouts. But for the most part, all centers turn the ball over when they handle the ball a lot. Nonetheless, we need defense, scoring, and rebounding from our center..... and Nurk is pretty good at each.

I am not opposed to trading him though as my gut says his negotiations will be a problem thin summer. No way I give him away but if the right offer comes along I would certainly entertain it.