DLJ and oldguy, first let me say I am not accusing you of anything, I just want to point out why I, a heterosexual male, and why many others gay and strait care deeply about these issues. So here is a one situation that got me invested, and I have heard such stories repeated to the point that actions like these are commonplace. When I was 19, I had friends who were gay and lesbian, and the girlfriend of a lesbian friend of mine was talking for months about how she was getting ready to come out to here father, who was a very religious person. Her mother knew, and was not pleased, but accepted the situation but her parents were divorced and she felt it was time to tell dad. She went back to NH for Christmas and during that time told her dad. Her dad screamed and shouted and then suddenly grabbed her and choked her. She woke up on the front porch with a broken wrist and all her clothes and pictures and other belongings piled on top of her and blowing around the yard. She had her father arrested, but that was it, no more dad for the rest of her life. People often treat LGBT with such disdain it breaks my heart. So yes, sometimes we may be overzealous or louder than you may like, but there is a ton of history in those raised voices. When crandc is called a jihadist for speaking out for LGBT everywhere, she is speaking out for my friend who and for your relatives and for all those who are beaten up and thrown out of their house or even mainstream society. crandc is not a jihadist, she is hurting nobody, she is only trying to express her views and get more people to treat LGBT's with the same respect they would others.
Look at all the abnormal heterosexuals! Feel free to freak out about that, too. But it really is normal, you see.
Per your words, normal people....my words, abnormal public behavior. Did I miss the public bondage, looking up people's asses at close range in public, shoving fingers up asses in public? If I did, please point them out. I've never seen that at Marti Gras went I went, or anything even close. If it's not there feel free to fuck off, since it has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Ok, :MARIS61: Your turn. Never mind the fact that those normal people would be arrested for doing that in most towns...and not because they are gay. But whatever spins your props Denny. Go Blazers
I don't hate gay people. On my wife's side of the family, my favorite people are my gay nephew and his straight sister. Both great people, salt of the earth. The nephew, who I'll call Dan, went through the same shit you describe above when he was growing up. You cannot imagine a worse father to grow up gay under. His Dad was a drinker. He was loud and obnoxious when he drank. And, he loved to make snarky comments about gay people and tell offensive gay jokes. Most often, I told him he should give it a rest when he was going off about gays. And, I'm ashamed to say, sometimes when I got drunk, I would laugh with the dad when a joke was funny (but offensive none-the-less) When Dan came out, I had to sit down with him and apologize for sometimes laughing at his dad's jokes. I told him that I realized how hard it must have been for him, although I knew I couldn't begin to understand how much pain we caused him. He forgave me, after some time had passed, and we enjoy each other's company now, even if we don't get to see each other as much as I would like. His dad continued to make gay jokes and crass remarks after his son came out, sometimes with Dan present. I jump his shit about it 100% of the time when he does it, and it's gotten to where he very seldom says that shit nowadays, at least when I'm around. At my office (of 30) a gay man is my third favorite person to work with, chat with and have lunch with. Of the dozen lawyers I've worked with in my career, a gay guy easily had the best combination of skill, knowledge, likability and ethics. I bought a box of See's for a gay guy that went above and beyond to help me out when I worked in Seattle. I took a fair amount of ribbing for it for a long time afterward. I always took the teasing in stride and defended the fact that the guy didn't have to do what he did, I didn't ask him to so what he did, and what he did took no small amount of effort. He did it because he was a good man, and knew that, if he could pull it off, it would save me a lot of work. So, no. I don't hate gay people. But I don't think much of people, gay or otherwise, who want to tell me what I should think and what should, or should not, offend me. Anyway, I appreciate your effort to mediate the dust-up Further. Go Blazers
Out at a bar on my phone, not a good place to respond so ill be brief. I'm glad you treat people in your life, gay or otherwise with the respect they deserve. My next drink I raise to you.
Jesus please us, what is this bug up your ass about the Folsom Street Fair? It is not presented as "kid friendly" or "family friendly". It's an adult event. (Funny, I don't see any outrage about all the hetero porn theaters and strip shows lining downtown San Francisco where thousands of tourist families walk ever day.) I personally don't go because leather isn't my scene but they are part of our community and this demonizing is getting damn old. Our movement did not start with nice respectable corporate types. The corporations and churches and politicians joined the party later, after those who could not fit in took the abuse for years. The drag queens and radical dykes and leatherpeople and nellie boys. NO ONE has every shown anyone was harmed by the damn Folsom Street Fair. The only ones who claim harm is people who never went there but assume it harms someone somehow somewhere. OTOH, millions of people have been and continue to be harmed by homophobia. Including the two gay men attacked outside a movie theater in Chelsea. And with the silent and sometimes not so silent applause of those who find our mere existence offensive. (not sure where the Jews of Warsaw come in, but I don't want these posters to run off on yet another tangent)
I can't recall who I PM'd and talked with about that....it was a long time ago, and on a different board (fanhome?). I actually did post links the way I did here, but crandc still just talked around the issue, much like she is now. I asked if they could help post the actual image so that there would be no doubt about what we were talking about. Go Blazers
So, you avoid my question and keep trolling. Where in your pix is the bondage? Where is the public whipping? Where are there people looking up other peoples' poop shoots? Where are the pix of people with their fingers up someone else's ass? As far as I know, every kid has seen boobs in their life. I'm guessing damn few see FSF activities. Troll on McDuff. Go Blazers
Interesting that someone who ridicules Christians as bible thumpers would call on Jesus for help. Since you ignored my answer to the question when you asked last time, I'll assume this is rhetoric and doesn't require me to repeat the answer. That's not the issue. I don't care how it's presented. When we had our argument over this issue, I asked if kids from the surrounding residential area were fenced out, so that they didn't wander into a very adult venue. That's when you responded that in SF, they don't fence off the gays like they walled off the Jews in Warsaw. You still don't say that kind of pubic behavior is inappropriate for children. You still don't say that you can see how that public behavior could be offensive to some people. That doesn't mean they are demons. The objection is to where they do that, and whether kids watch that behavior. I don't care what they do in private. Since you avoided the question when I asked earlier, let me ask again. Do you think there should be a barrier that keeps kids from attending that venue? Are the tourists' kids allowed to go into the porn shops and strip shows? If they are, then SF is completely fucked up, and different than anywhere else I've been. If they don't allow kids into those venues, then this is just another red herring, and has zero to do with the subject. How is me saying that I think kids should be excluded from seeing that kind of public display demonizing? How is me saying that I find that kind of behavior offensive when in public? NO ONE has ever shown that kids were not harmed by viewing that kind of pubic display at the FSF. (Just as dumb as your statement.) Websters - Phobia - an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of an object, class of objects or situation. I've never been afraid of gay people. I've never known anyone that is afraid of gay people. That loser of a term is just a way for gay people to belittle anyone that doesn't think in exactly the way the gay thought police want them to. See above. Go Blazers
If a gay person thinks that the FSF is acceptable behavior for public places where a kid could see, that gay person is a pervert.
I have. The Mardi Gras parade has a lot of gays in it, and a lot of drag queens. It has nothing to do with sexual preference.
Gee, ever heard of parental responsibility? If parents think something is inappropriate for their children, don't take them. If the "children" are old enough to go on their own they are probably teenagers. I still have yet to hear of anyone beaten, raped, or killed at the Folsom Street Fair. Damn, you really are obsessed! I have a sneaking suspicion you'd really really like to be part of it....
