<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First off most centers dont shoot under 40% anyway seeing as they play closest to the basket of any position on the court so thats completely irrelevant. You say he dominated florida? You do know they lost that game, and he only scored his 20 or so points because florida had no one size-wise to matchup with NBA. Guess what? In the NBA they have plenty of guys big enough to guard Oden. They also lost that game to florida and domination implies victory so that point is also irrelevant. He has the drive to be the best offensive post player in the NBA? Now I know you dont know what your talking about since he only averaged 16 ppg as the first option on his team and playing with the best PG in the country. Right Now Durant is a better post player than Oden. Oden does have plenty of potential but not for any of the reasons you mentioned and Oden will NEVER be the offensive best post player in the NBA that will likely be Amare his entire career. He does however have a chance to be one of the better post defenders in the NBA someday. Even Experts point out how he would spend 10-20 minutes a game doing nothing and being absent in many games even when he was on the court. Just look at some games from ohio state last year.</div>I'm talking about in games, he never had a bad game putting the ball in the hoop. I do know they lost the game, but he could not be stopped. 25 points, 12 rebounds, and 4 blocks sounds like a good game. They had Horford, Noah, and Richard, all 3 of which are good defensive players - Richard and Horford are especially good because there so big, so don't say they didn't have anyone to match up against Oden. Are you reading what I am saying, he was injured for most of the season. He had to adjust to the offense, get in a rhythm with the other guys who had been playing all season, and he had to keep working to get back full strength. I'm not even sure if Oden was the 1st option for the majority of the season, he had so many guys around him that could take the scoring load off of him. Durant may have all the moves but thats where the physical presence comes in play - Durant would never be able to live in the post because of his strength, Oden on the other hand could score just because he was huge. I said Oden could be if he works at, he's got all the physical attributes to make him SO good in the post but he's still a bit raw offensively. If you say that Oden scored alot just because of Conley than you could say Amare only scores alot because of Nash so thats an invalid argument. Oden will make an impact on defense right away, and theres really no question he will become an elite defensive player in the NBA. The only games Oden really didn't play a whole lot or score a whole were the games where they were either being killed or were killing their opponent.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Considering he wasnt that great of an offensive player in college what makes you think he'll be a great offensive player in the NBA? Thats why im basing so much on college. NBA is a tough game. I never said he cant be a great offensive player, but it is going to take him years to ever be a 20ppg scorer while Durant can give you that and more today at the same age.</div> Yeah, I guess since Hakeem Olajuwon never averaged more than 17ppg he wouldn't be an offensive force either. Hakeem's freshman season 8/6, soph, 14/11, junior, 17/13 Greg Oden brings more to the game than scoring, who cares if he's not a dominant offensive player immediatley.
You wanna talk offensive effectiveness? Oden didn't perform in his freshmen season?Oden had better offensive stats than Olajuwon, Duncan, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq and plenty of other college big men "HOFers" in his freshmen year in college. (Of course you can't include Walton, Chamberlain, Russell, Alcindor) because when they were in college freshmen weren't allowed to play on the varsity.Plus he played half the season with one healthy hand for pete's sake. I don't get what your basis is?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jun 24 2007, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As a Nash fan, hard for me to say even though we have Amare but....Valo had a post like a month ago and it showed that it's very rare that a team with their best player being a PG has won a championship. As you all love to say, defense wins championships and the center is the biggest part of that. All you need to do it look at all the teams that won a championship and it's pretty obvious which is the most important position. You may have had something there, but Durant isn't a PG and has little passing skills.</div>I wasnt talking about Durant in that post. You said Center is the best to build around so I was replying to that not a debate between Durant and Oden. Centers are not always the biggest part of championships though. It varies from team to team.07 Spurs Center Fabrico Oberta06 Miami Heat Center Shaq/Mourning(neither led their team)05 Spurs Center Rasho Nesterovic04 Pistons Center Ben WallaceAs you can see in the last 4 years the highest scorer for a center was shaq in 06 with 18 ppg, the others have all averaged under 10 ppg.So a dominant center doesn't always mean a championship. It only further proves my point that TEAMS win. And the best position on each team varies from team to team, there is no set best position as you believe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jun 24 2007, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You wanna talk offensive effectiveness? Oden didn't perform in his freshmen season?Oden had better offensive stats than Olajuwon, Duncan, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq and plenty of other college big men "HOFers" in his freshmen year in college. (Of course you can't include Walton, Chamberlain, Russell, Alcindor) because when they were in college freshmen weren't allowed to play on the varsity.Plus he played half the season with one healthy hand for pete's sake. I don't get what your basis is?</div>Most college players dont get significant minutes in their freshman year like Oden did so that point is invalid. Oden isnt a bad offensive player but he isnt near the offensive player Durant is. Dont put words in my mouth.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>QUOTE(PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 02:54 PM) Even Experts point out how he would spend 10-20 minutes a game doing nothing and being absent in many games even when he was on the court. Just look at some games from ohio state last year.</div> Did you even watch Greg Oden this year? I watched him at least 12 times, and even when he was not scoring (often not getting touches because of Conley/Lewis/Butler shooting), he would scare guards from going in the paint and make plays without the ball on defense. Thad Motta admitted that when Oden got back from the injury the team had to learn to play with him and use him effectively, they didn't start clicking until the end of the season, during the year Oden would be in great position for the ball but his offensive minded teammates would take shots and ignore him for stretches of time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I wasnt talking about Durant in that post. You said Center is the best to build around so I was replying to that not a debate between Durant and Oden. Centers are not always the biggest part of championships though. It varies from team to team.07 Spurs Center Fabrico Oberta06 Miami Heat Center Shaq/Mourning(neither led their team)05 Spurs Center Rasho Nesterovic04 Pistons Center Ben WallaceAs you can see in the last 4 years the highest scorer for a center was shaq in 06 with 18 ppg, the others have all averaged under 10 ppg.So a dominant center doesn't always mean a championship. It only further proves my point that TEAMS win. And the best position on each team varies from team to team, there is no set best position as you believe.</div>You do realize that Duncan played both the center and power forward in the Spurs post-Robinson championship teams right? It isn't always specifically the "Center" spot it's the big man and Duncan is a legit 7-footer. Just because he doesn't always play center doesn't mean he can't play it.You're just nitpicking now. We don't mean "Since he's the biggest player on the team he's the center so he was the center on that team and anchored the team." We're talking about big men in general that control the paint.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jun 24 2007, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, I guess since Hakeem Olajuwon never averaged more than 17ppg he wouldn't be an offensive force either. Hakeem's freshman season 8/6, soph, 14/11, junior, 17/13 Greg Oden brings more to the game than scoring, who cares if he's not a dominant offensive player immediatley.</div>Some players take longer to develop than others. It varies from player to player. When Hakeem played in college there were guys big enough to guard him. In Odens rookie season he really had no competition as far as dominant post defenders in his division.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 03:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Some players take longer to develop than others. It varies from player to player. When Hakeem played in college there were guys big enough to guard him. In Odens rookie season he really had no competition as far as dominant post defenders in his division.</div>Becuase he was the dominant post defender. Who gives a damn if he averages 20+ PPG? That's not what he's out there to do. He's out there to get dunks, rebounds, block shots and intimidate penetrators. Hell, if you even watched Ohio State he brings all of those to the table at the highest level plus he has a good hook shot that is just going to continue to get better plus an incredible drop step.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Some players take longer to develop than others. It varies from player to player. When Hakeem played in college there were guys big enough to guard him. In Odens rookie season he really had no competition as far as dominant post defenders in his division.</div> Oh come on, it's not like Olajuwon was playing against a HOF center every night at the U or Houston. I'm sure the quality of bigmen was not much different than it is now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jun 24 2007, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Did you even watch Greg Oden this year? I watched him at least 12 times, and even when he was not scoring (often not getting touches because of Conley/Lewis/Butler shooting), he would scare guards from going in the paint and make plays without the ball on defense. Thad Motta admitted that when Oden got back from the injury the team had to learn to play with him and use him effectively, they didn't start clicking until the end of the season, during the year Oden would be in great position for the ball but his offensive minded teammates would take shots and ignore him for stretches of time.</div>Did I ever say anything to imply that I didnt think Oden was a great post defender? Yall are putting ALOT of words in my mouth. All im saying is that just because he's a center doesn't mean hes going to win all these titles. He's a great talent but Durant is a better talent. Dont read more into what im saying than that and put words in my mouth.
Like mentioned, most championship teams are formed around dominant big men, who play good defense. That's what Oden is. No, he wasn't consistent last season, but some of that can be contributed to his injuries. He's very smart and has great character as well, which will also contribute to winning. And with all the young talent the Blazers have brewing, they need a dominant big man downlow to build a contending team around.Durant is also a dominant player. He dominated at the college level, and despite his size and lack of strength, he will do great in the NBA I feel. He's a pure scorer, and a good help defender. He can run the floor and is very athletic with his size.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jun 24 2007, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Becuase he was the dominant post defender. Who gives a damn if he averages 20+ PPG? That's not what he's out there to do. He's out there to get dunks, rebounds, block shots and intimidate penetrators. Hell, if you even watched Ohio State he brings all of those to the table at the highest level plus he has a good hook shot that is just going to continue to get better plus an incredible drop step.</div>This whole discussion is Oden Vs Durant so scoring is definately a factor in comparing the two. Durant gets more Dunks,rebounds,and block shots anyway, but I never said Oden couldnt rebound and block shots ONCE. So why do yall keep putting more words in my mouth?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 24 2007, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like mentioned, most championship teams are formed around dominant big men, who play good defense. That's what Oden is. No, he wasn't consistent last season, but some of that can be contributed to his injuries. He's very smart and has great character as well, which will also contribute to winning.Durant is also a dominant player. He dominated at the college level, and despite his size and lack of strength, he will do great in the NBA I feel. He's a pure scorer, and a good help defender. He can run the floor and is very athletic with his size. With all the young talent that Blazers have brewing, they should go with Oden and focus on building a championship team around him. Durant will be a good player in the NBA, but before he wins a championship, he will need a big prescense downlow.</div>The Blazers already have a PF-C in Lemarcus Aldridge + Zach Randolph,Jamal Magloire,Travis Outlaw, and Joel Pryzbilla. What more do the Blazers need in the frontcourt then all that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jun 24 2007, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Becuase he was the dominant post defender. Who gives a damn if he averages 20+ PPG? That's not what he's out there to do. He's out there to get dunks, rebounds, block shots and intimidate penetrators. Hell, if you even watched Ohio State he brings all of those to the table at the highest level plus he has a good hook shot that is just going to continue to get better plus an incredible drop step.</div> Oden was never "Doing Nothing" out on the court, your right, when he isn't scoring, he's keeping guys out of the paint and intimidating on defense. Scoring 20ppg was not Oden's job, OSU was a perimeter oriented scoring team that had to get used to playing with Oden. Just Oden being on the floor made a huge difference.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This whole discussion is Oden Vs Durant so scoring is definately a factor in comparing the two. Durant gets more Drunks,rebounds,and block shots anyway, but I never said Oden couldnt rebound and block shots ONCE. So why do yall keep putting more words in my mouth? </div>Stop saying the "putting words in my mouth" thing, it's getting annoying.Yeah obviously Durant is scoring more than Oden. That whole catagory should be taken out of the argument. Clearly Durant is a better scorer because that's what he does. SCOREThat isn't what Oden does.Tracy McGrady averages 25+ PPG every year but he's never gotten out of the first round. Enough said.Stats are irrellevent anyway. You can't put Greg Oden, Tim Duncan, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neal's intimidation factor in the paint into a stat book as much as you'de like to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This whole discussion is Oden Vs Durant so scoring is definately a factor in comparing the two. Durant gets more Dunks,rebounds,and block shots anyway, but I never said Oden couldnt rebound and block shots ONCE. So why do yall keep putting more words in my mouth? </div>Durant did rebound a little better than Oden, but Oden got more blocked shots. He got almost 1 and a half more blocks than Durant a game. Oden is a good man defender, while Durant is more of a help defender.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Blazers already have a PF-C in Lemarcus Aldridge + Zach Randolph,Jamal Magloire,Travis Outlaw, and Joel Pryzbilla. What more do the Blazers need in the frontcourt then all that?</div> The Blazers have Darius Miles, Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster at SF. Zach Randolph is being actively shopped, it's looking more likely that he could be moved. Jamaal Magloire is a FA that's leaving. If the Blazers are stuck with Randolph next year, nothing wrong with having a little depth and being able to bring in LaMarcus Aldridge of the bench, it's very likely the Blazers will have an injury to one of those 4, having depth in the paint is a great luxury. Zach Randolph in Portland is only temporary.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jun 24 2007, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Stop saying the "putting words in my mouth" thing, it's getting annoying.Yeah obviously Durant is scoring more than Oden. That whole catagory should be taken out of the argument. Clearly Durant is a better scorer because that's what he does. SCOREThat isn't what Oden does.Tracy McGrady averages 25+ PPG every year but he's never gotten out of the first round. Enough said.Stats are irrellevent anyway. You can't put Greg Oden, Tim Duncan, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neal's intimidation factor in the paint into a stat book as much as you'de like to.</div> Dont put words in my mouth and I wont say it. Your acting like im saying ''ODEN IS A TERRIBLE PLAYER AND CANT DEFEND ANYONE'' When if you actually read what I said I said nothing along those lines.Even Rebounding,blocking and passing he has an advantage at and hes not even a big man. When you are better in every statistically category I think stats are relevant. Oden isnt that much better defensively than Durant either BTW.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jun 24 2007, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Durant did rebound a little better than Oden, but Oden got more blocked shots. He got almost 1 and a half more blocks than Durant a game. Oden is a good man defender, while Durant is more of a help defender.</div>Durant was the tallest guy on the floor at all times, and he was just the best rebounder on that Texas team. Those rebounding stats won't translate that well to the NBA.
