OFFICIAL AROUND THE NBA THREAD - August 2021

I’ve coached for 25 plus years. I’ve been in upper management for longer, and I’ve never called someone a piece of shit or verbally abused someone to the point that they broke mentally.

 

Confirmation bias. People hate him (justifiably) for things he did in his personal life, and use that in a coaching example of Kidd taking it too far to mean he shouldn't be allowed to be around other people. People who react that way are equally shitty pieces of humanity.

Name calling like that isn't my thing, but it certainly is for A LOT of basketball and football coaches. I don't know what the last part about mentally breaking someone is referring to, so I can't comment on that.

 

For some reason players still love playing for Kidd though

 

Larry Sanders flat out quit after being verbally abused by Kidd. Checked himself into a hospital and then quit

 

What players?

 

obviously, based on Aldo's post, players with some reason, but not enough

 

Okay, I looked up the article for more info than the twitter clip, and I'm going to chalk that up to a terrible take.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/08/1...h-bucks-that-left-larry-sanders-hospitalized/

"Sanders’ issues predated Kidd, who was in his first season as Bucks coach.

But Kidd’s tactics certainly didn’t help. Sanders got suspended for drugs while away from the team then never played for Milwaukee again, taking a buyout. He entered a program for anxiety, depression and mood disorders and spent a couple of years outside the NBA, returning only for a brief stint with the Cavaliers in 2017."

Mental midgets gonna break regardless, it's just a matter of when. If you can't handle it in practice, you can't handle it in games.

Yeah, I'm heartless. It's called real world.

 

Not nearly as much as it used to be, especially with us being more aware now of mental health and the possible consequences. The days of the Junction Boys and Bobby Knight are more a thing of the past, and, IMO, that's a good thing.

I've been both a coach and a manager on my job. Personally, I've found I get much better results addressing a current problem and when something challenging comes up in the future using positive reinforcement or just being straight up with employees and workers. It's not as easy as just turning to animus for a coach, but it's better both in the short and long terms, IMO.

Do you think Kidd would be better off driving Larry Sanders out of basketball or taking some time and finding what made things click and respond for him?

 

Wow. Someone with emotional disorders is a "mental midget"?

"Heartless" might be giving yourself too much credit.

And that's only "the real world" for people who aren't smart enough or dedicated enough to find better ways of handling things. But, hey, it lets people in authority take out their frustration by abusing those in no real position to defend themselves, so why should we care, right?

 

It just amazes me that as we've seen training techniques evolve, we've seen style of play evolve, that people still rationalize coaches/managers treating subordinates like it's still the Stone Age is acceptable because that's just how life is.

Using that type of reasoning, bullying is good, domestic abuse is OK, sexual harassment in the work place is fine, because, hey, it gets results and it's just the way it's always been done. Except it isn't, but let's not cloud the issue with facts. And the emotional issues it causes and the victims that come about as victims enact the same behavior on other people ... that's just the fault of the victims for not being strong enough.

And we wonder why society has issues.

 

Yeah I totally agree with you. For those of us that predate Millennials, I can see the impulse to say, "I was coached like that and I turned out alright." Or some bullshit like that. For Millennials and maybe even younger there could be some allure to romancing "when men were men" or some other fucked up notion.

The fact is these were full grown men and by the accounts in Giannis's book they weren't being treated in a way that showed any respect at all. That is not an effective way to coach, manage or treat another human being. When you take into account that Sanders already had a history of problems with mental health and substance abuse, it makes the actions even more disturbing but probably not as disturbing as some of the responses about it in here.

I do think that people can change and I don't think that this should disqualify Kidd from coaching. I don't know if his past of domestic violence should, that is more troubling to me. What all of it means, to me, is that Jason Kidd should be watched very carefully by the Mavs, the league and the players association to ensure that he isn't still using methods that could be emotionally injurious to players.

 

Sometimes.

 

I think there are different approaches to coaching that can be successful and holding players accountable in a way that might be uncomfortable for them, when backed up by trust and respect that goes both ways is definitely a style that can work and can be completely healthy. Like you said, Kidd was going way past that.

Personally I don't think there's any reason unless it's an emergency or the volume is necessary for someone to actually hear what you're saying, to raise your voice towards another person and when I do I try and think about how I could have handled it differently. Like I said that's personal and I have had coaches that yelled at me... that I'm sure would still yell today and were good people who impacted my life positively. Had great parents that raised their voices. So yeah it can be effective but isn't my style or personal preference. I have also had people raise their voice towards me, their subordinates and even towards my direct reports in professional settings... that's never sat well with me. I do realize professional sports are different than other jobs though.

 

The way it sounded Christmas Eve and Christmas day and that was just to punish the players, make them feel small and out of control. The inverse being the important part to Kidd was obviously that he was bigger and in control. The whole thing stinks of someone with their own issues and I hope he's worked through those, so he doesn't do damage to anyone else. I wonder what Kidd's home life was like as a child. I have actually met his father on several occasions and he was really nice. I've met Kidd a few times and he was incredibly nice and personable. Maybe both are very mercurial or believe that abusive behavior (because that's what we're discussing) is acceptable behind closed doors.

 

Which is significant, because much (make that all) of the "woke" judgement is through today's perspective. The context of what was commonplace at the time should be weighed.

I don't disagree, but consider this: Giannis and Middleton are arguably the two biggest draft successes among the current generation of NBA players. Kidd coached them very early in their careers. His motivational tactics cannot be so easily dismissed, given how well those two turned out. It's entirely possible to be a so-so coach but a great motivator in the coaching role.

Larry Sanders would have driven himself out of basketball, IMO. One thing missing from the article is why exactly was Sanders targeted in that practice? I suspect he didn't bring either the effort or attitude that Kidd wanted. People should be taking a closer look at that aspect. This whole social media crap is like refs missing the first call and catching the retaliation.

In the context of pro sports, yes. Competitors are ruthless. It's the coach's job to prepare players to handle that.

 

So you're saying that you are 80 years old???