<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">Just playing around, seriously i do expect the Knicks to be an improved team, the Raptors and Knicks should be in a tight race for mediocrity.</div> Not trying to start anything, but why do you feel so? The Knicks got better with 3 draft picks who will be contributing right away, and they have a legit center now - one who will make a greater impact now that he's playing in the Eastern Conference. If anything of what he said is true, this whole-new Jerome James should be even better now that he's got his head on straight. We also got Larry Brown - the best coach in the game right now. Time will tell what happens, but how do you really expect the Raptors to compete when they haven't done too much in free agency; in fact, they also lost Donyell Marshall who was a very solid player for them. There have been rumors that Matt Bonner might be leaving as well which will further subtract from Toronto. Sure the fact that Bosh will get better is a positive, but do you think it will be enough to make up for their loss(es)?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Not trying to start anything, but why do you feel so? The Knicks got better with 3 draft picks who will be contributing right away, and they have a legit center now - one who will make a greater impact now that he's playing in the Eastern Conference. If anything of what he said is true, this whole-new Jerome James should be even better now that he's got his head on straight. We also got Larry Brown - the best coach in the game right now. Time will tell what happens, but how do you really expect the Raptors to compete when they haven't done too much in free agency; in fact, they also lost Donyell Marshall who was a very solid player for them. There have been rumors that Matt Bonner might be leaving as well which will further subtract from Toronto. Sure the fact that Bosh will get better is a positive, but do you think it will be enough to make up for their loss(es)?</div> Knicks will make playoffs now, for the Raptors its possible but unlikely. I think that the Raptors got better overall players in the draft. As in best possible talent, however NY got players at positions they needed. They also acquired Q-Rich and Jerome James. Its no question that their roster has improved and filled in some of their most important holes for the next few seasons. A high energy back-up for Marbury, a center who is actually 7'0 and and has the body to push smaller guys around. Overall, The Knicks addressed their holes and acquired a Hall of Fame coach, while the Raptors got some nice talent, but they didn't cover their holes for the next season. Knicks = playoffs, Raptors = unlikely.
Charlie Villanueva & Joey Graham > Channing Frye & David Lee I see the Knicks as the 8th or the 7th seed but I don't expect them to win the Atlantic. The Nets have a much better chance at that, and they are two role players away from being a Finals contender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Knicks will make playoffs now, for the Raptors its possible but unlikely. I think that the Raptors got better overall players in the draft. As in best possible talent, however NY got players at positions they needed. They also acquired Q-Rich and Jerome James. Its no question that their roster has improved and filled in some of their most important holes for the next few seasons. A high energy back-up for Marbury, a center who is actually 7'0 and and has the body to push smaller guys around. Overall, The Knicks addressed their holes and acquired a Hall of Fame coach, while the Raptors got some nice talent, but they didn't cover their holes for the next season. Knicks = playoffs, Raptors = unlikely.</div> Let's get one thing straight. Larry Brown might be the greatest coach in the NBA today but he is not Jesus and he cannot perform miracles. The Knicks still dont have any perimeter defense, no outside shooting and most importantly no chemistry. With Larry Brown the Knicks might make things interesting down the stretch but more likely than not they will miss the playoffs. I want to say the Knicks will make the playoffs but I just cant say it. I mean the Knicks have improved with their off season acquistions but everyone else has improved as well. The Cavaliers are better. The Bucks are better. The Raptors are...nevermind. The point is both these teams who missed the playoffs last season both have a better chance at making the playoffs than the Knicks as it stands now. So unless something shocking happens...I'll have to agree with 02civic(cant believe I said that!). The Knicks and Raptors will be in a rat race for domination of the depths of the Atlantic and the Knicks are going to win! Knicks= lottery, Raptors= lottery. And I do hope you guys dont draft another powerforward... Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's get one thing straight. Larry Brown might be the greatest coach in the NBA today but he is not Jesus and he cannot perform miracles. The Knicks still dont have any perimeter defense, no outside shooting and most importantly no chemistry. With Larry Brown the Knicks might make things interesting down the stretch but more likely than not they will miss the playoffs. I want to say the Knicks will make the playoffs but I just cant say it. I mean the Knicks have improved with their off season acquistions but everyone else has improved as well. The Cavaliers are better. The Bucks are better. The Raptors are...nevermind. The point is both these teams who missed the playoffs last season both have a better chance at making the playoffs than the Knicks as it stands now. So unless something shocking happens...I'll have to agree with 02civic(cant believe I said that!). The Knicks and Raptors will be in a rat race for domination of the depths of the Atlantic and the Knicks are going to win! Knicks= lottery, Raptors= lottery. And I do hope you guys dont draft another powerforward... Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div> Couldn't have said it better myself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">Charlie Villanueva & Joey Graham > Channing Frye & David Lee</div> Charlie Villanueva & Joey Graham < Channing Frye & David Lee <u>&</u> Nate Robinson <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I see the Knicks as the 8th or the 7th seed but I don't expect them to win the Atlantic. The Nets have a much better chance at that, and they are two role players away from being a Finals contender.</div> I don't think the Nets are that close to the Finals, but either way, I know the Knicks aren't too far behind the Nets if any at all. Also now that we have those two expiring contracts of Penny and Tim, we might be a contender in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Charlie Villanueva & Joey Graham < Channing Frye & David Lee <u>&</u> Nate Robinson</div> Charlie Villanueva & Joey Graham & Roko Ukic > Channing Frye & David Lee & Nate Robinson. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think the Nets are that close to the Finals, but either way, I know the Knicks aren't too far behind the Nets if any at all. Also now that we have those two expiring contracts of Penny and Tim, we might be a contender in the league.</div> If Thorn manages to sign one of the waived players due to the amnesty rule (ie. Michael Finley), they just need to acquire a veteran big that can either start or back up Krstic. They'll have their handsful trying to get past Shaq and the Heat, but once they get past them I don't see who else will prevent them from getting to the Finals. They will need to do things quick though, as Kidd is getting no younger and their core of Kidd / Carter / Jefferson takes up the entire salary cap for 4 more years.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's get one thing straight. Larry Brown might be the greatest coach in the NBA today but he is not Jesus and he cannot perform miracles.</div> No, he can?t perform miracles, but he?s a Hall of Fame-caliber coach and can change the Knicks around and big time. The teams that get Larry Brown get better by an average of 9 games and even then, we?d be 42-40 which could be good enough for 8th seed depending on tie-breakers. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks still dont have any perimeter defense, no outside shooting and most importantly no chemistry.</div> Their perimeter defense might be bad, but Larry Brown is a great defensive coach and can make them more defensive-minded. We also have two shot blocking centers in the middle which can bail us out, too. Quentin Richardson is a good outside shooter and like it or not, so is Tim Thomas. Jamal Crawford is a good outside shooter and despite his terrible shots, he shot 36% from downtown which is good. Larry Brown should also help improve his shot selection. The chemistry comes in training camp. Now that we?ll be able to have one, it will be fine. When one player is struggling because of family crisis? another one sulking in Memphis, two captains are fighting and the third one is injured, the coaches being switched up and two new players just come in, the chemistry is going to be shaky, no questions. Chemistry can be fixed, Tribute. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">With Larry Brown the Knicks might make things interesting down the stretch but more likely than not they will miss the playoffs. I want to say the Knicks will make the playoffs but I just cant say it.</div> I think that?s mainly due to your pessimistic ways of looking at the Knicks. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I mean the Knicks have improved with their off season acquistions but everyone else has improved as well. The Cavaliers are better. The Bucks are better. The Raptors are...nevermind.</div> But the Knicks have improved so much more, in my opinion. We?ve gotten 3 NBA-ready players ion the draft, a 7-foot center who is realizing his full potential and will help us out defensively, and the best coach in the league right now. The Cavaliers got better as did the Bucks, but we did as well and we should be on their level next season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The point is both these teams who missed the playoffs last season both have a better chance at making the playoffs than the Knicks as it stands now.</div> That remains to be seen; I feel that we are on the same level as the Cavaliers and the Bucks now that we?ve gotten Larry Brown and Jerome James. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> So unless something shocking happens...I'll have to agree with 02civic(cant believe I said that!). The Knicks and Raptors will be in a rat race for domination of the depths of the Atlantic and the Knicks are going to win! </div> Okay, the Raptors barely got better if any at all and we got much better and we?ll do worse than them? How so?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">Charlie Villanueva & Joey Graham & Roko Ukic > Channing Frye & David Lee & Nate Robinson.</div> That's debatable, but Ukic isn't playing which would still mean the Knicks rookies are better than the Raptors this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Thorn manages to sign one of the waived players due to the amnesty rule (ie. Michael Finley), they just need to acquire a veteran big that can either start or back up Krstic. They'll have their handsful trying to get past Shaq and the Heat, but once they get past them I don't see who else will prevent them from getting to the Finals. They will need to do things quick though, as Kidd is getting no younger and their core of Kidd / Carter / Jefferson takes up the entire salary cap for 4 more years.</div> By role player I didn't know what you meant because that could mean anyone from Finley as you said, to a Keyon Dooling-type player off the bench. But the Knicks have better chances of getting good role players with their expiring contracts than the Nets do with their MLE. With the Knicks contracts, they could get a Baron Davis kind of player; similarly to the way Golden State got him with Dale Davis. If the Knicks do find a way to get at least one player like that, they will definitely be competing with the Nets.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">That's debatable, but Ukic isn't playing which would still mean the Knicks rookies are better than the Raptors this year. By role player I didn't know what you meant because that could mean anyone from Finley as you said, to a Keyon Dooling-type player off the bench. But the Knicks have better chances of getting good role players with their expiring contracts than the Nets do with their MLE. With the Knicks contracts, they could get a Baron Davis kind of player; similarly to the way Golden State got him with Dale Davis. If the Knicks do find a way to get at least one player like that, they will definitely be competing with the Nets.</div> You know what, I'll give you Jalen Rose for Penny / Tim and a first rounder. First rounder has to be there because Penny can't play and Tim isn't exactly a player on Rose's level either.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">You know what, I'll give you Jalen Rose for Penny / Tim and a first rounder. First rounder has to be there because Penny can't play and Tim isn't exactly a player on Rose's level either.</div> That doesn't work cap-wise, but I don't think 2 expiring contracts are worth Jalen Rose. Unless you're giving me the Rudy first round pick.
This is a move in the right direction for the Knicks on two fronts. 1. Larry Brown is a huge upgrade at head coach and has always been able to squeeze the most out of the talent he has. 2. Larry Brown will eventually replace Isiah Thomas as the GM of the Knicks. The Knicks are obviously not a championship caliber team, and arguably not even good enough to make the post-season. However, the team has some workable pieces and flexibility to trade for 'Larry Brown' type players. Tim Thomas will likely be the first player traded, Larry Brown could not stand him in Philly and he'll want him shipped out by the end of summer. I'm sure Larry Brown wanted a lot of control over player personnel before he took the job and he has had a history of making trades everywhere he's coached. One major reason Larry Brown left Detroit, was the realization he would never be able to replace Joe Dumars role in the organization. So instead, he will push for Joe Dumar's former backcourt teammate, Isiah Thomas, and eventually replace him. The first big rift will probably come when Larry Brown demands Stephon Marbury be traded. Larry Brown once requested Marbury be removed from the Olympic team and Marbury is not the type of guard Larry Brown likes running his team. Finding a taker will be difficult, but Brown will eventually get his way. Bad news for Isiah, since he is on record as saying he will never trade Marbury. In fact, Marbury is his biggest acquisition to date. I wouldn't invest in a Jamal Crawford jersey anytime soon either. Larry Brown hates the 3 point shot, and one of Crawford's best skills is shooting the 3-ball. I don't expect Crawford to be on the team in the long run. Besides Larry Brown has his AI clone in Nate Robinson. Larry Brown should help improve the win total for the Knicks and will play the guys he feels gives them the best chance to win games. Another major move to push Isiah Thomas out the door will be Larry Brown's ability to recruit next off-season. It could get interesting when Ben Wallace becomes a free agent next summer. Larry Brown + New York might be enough to entice Big Ben to jump ship.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">That doesn't work cap-wise, but I don't think 2 expiring contracts are worth Jalen Rose. Unless you're giving me the Rudy first round pick. </div> Tim or Penny. Not both.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">You know what, I'll give you Jalen Rose for Penny / Tim and a first rounder. First rounder has to be there because Penny can't play and Tim isn't exactly a player on Rose's level either.</div> Why would we want to trade our expiring contracts when wer'e like 50,000,000 something over the cap, lol...oh wait we have Isiah Thomas....I see where you're going with this. anyway, something I could finally cheer about Knicks > Raptors Next Victim: Celtics
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">The first big rift will probably come when Larry Brown demands Stephon Marbury be traded. Larry Brown once requested Marbury be removed from the Olympic team and Marbury is not the type of guard Larry Brown likes running his team. Finding a taker will be difficult, but Brown will eventually get his way. Bad news for Isiah, since he is on record as saying he will never trade Marbury. In fact, Marbury is his biggest acquisition to date. I wouldn't invest in a Jamal Crawford jersey anytime soon either. Larry Brown hates the 3 point shot, and one of Crawford's best skills is shooting the 3-ball. I don't expect Crawford to be on the team in the long run. Besides Larry Brown has his AI clone in Nate Robinson.</div> Do you think it will reach that extent? I know they did clash during the Olympics, but they did say it was all good. Also, wasn't Chauncey Billups the same way? I remember both him and Brown having some problems, and even back in Philly Brown and AI were at it. I don't think it will get that serious where Marbury needs to go. He wants to stay in New York and if that means listening to what Brown says, than he'll have to do it. Jamal Crawford, to me, seems like a player Larry can get the best out of. If anyone can do it, it has to be Brown. We could have that explosive 6th man off the bench we haven't had in a while. Same thing with Quentin Richardson.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Why would we want to trade our expiring contracts when wer'e like 50,000,000 something over the cap, lol...oh wait we have Isiah Thomas....I see where you're going with this. anyway, something I could finally cheer about Knicks > Raptors Next Victim: Celtics</div> Enjoy it while you can. You're not going to like it when the Knicks have a spike of brilliance for one season, only to see it drop off to a complete mayhem. Not to mention that when we get Ukic over, we'll be $20 milllion under the cap with Rose / Aaron Williams / Eric Williams / Lamond Murray all off the payroll, and Bosh in his prime.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">Tim or Penny. Not both.</div> My bad, I didn't really read it carefully. Even though Rose will add a glut at swingman, I'd take it and then trade Rose's new expiring contract next season!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">No, he can?t perform miracles, but he?s a Hall of Fame-caliber coach and can change the Knicks around and big time. The teams that get Larry Brown get better by an average of 9 games and even then, we?d be 42-40 which could be good enough for 8th seed depending on tie-breakers.</div> Not all of his teams got better by nine games. Some got better by a couple some got better by alot so the Knicks arent guaranteed to win nine more games. Also I'd rather be dead last in the NBA than seeded 8th in the playoffs these days. At least with the former you have a good chance at getting the number one pick. But with the latter you're guaranteed to leave in the first round and be stuck with a mid first round pick. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Their perimeter defense might be bad, but Larry Brown is a great defensive coach and can make them more defensive-minded. We also have two shot blocking centers in the middle which can bail us out, too.</div> You can lead a horse to water...As good as Larry Brown might be he cannot make them play defense. He can try to make them more defensive minded but I seriously doubt it's going to work on Marbury, Crawford and Q. James is foul prone and Frye is not going to intimidate anybody. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Quentin Richardson is a good outside shooter and like it or not, so is Tim Thomas. Jamal Crawford is a good outside shooter and despite his terrible shots, he shot 36% from downtown which is good. Larry Brown should also help improve his shot selection.</div> Richardson isnt that good of an outside shooter. Hell Houston on one leg is better than him. TT shot pretty well in the second half of the season I'm not going to try to lie. But he didnt take that many shots behind the arc so I dont know how well his percentages would do if he had to take more. As for Crawford I'm starting to believe he'll never learn a good shot from a bad shot. I dont know if it's his basketball IQ or what. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">The chemistry comes in training camp. Now that we?ll be able to have one, it will be fine. When one player is struggling because of family crisis? another one sulking in Memphis, two captains are fighting and the third one is injured, the coaches being switched up and two new players just come in, the chemistry is going to be shaky, no questions. Chemistry can be fixed, Tribute.</div> Please. I feel for TT but his family tragedies didnt affect his play. He was lousy before this season and he was lousy this season. He was the same old TT to me except this season he actually had some sort of excuse. Chemistry is more than playing with someone else for a long time. Chemistry cant be taught or explained. You either have it or you dont. The Knicks had chemistry with Van Horn in the line up. As one writer put it the Knicks had "chemistry in spades" but Marbury couldnt see past his own ego and got rid of him and ever since then the team hasnt had any chemisty. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I think that?s mainly due to your pessimistic ways of looking at the Knicks.</div> Well after this pathetic season can you blame me? I was probably the most optimistic person here until I woke up. Besides someone has to balance you out. Your optimism is sickening. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">But the Knicks have improved so much more, in my opinion. We?ve gotten 3 NBA-ready players ion the draft, a 7-foot center who is realizing his full potential and will help us out defensively, and the best coach in the league right now. The Cavaliers got better as did the Bucks, but we did as well and we should be on their level next season.</div> Seven footer just realizing his full potential?? This is the sickeningly optimistic stuff I was talking about. Jerome James does not deserve that contract. He has underachieved his entire life and then in two playoff series against competition who wasnt even 100% he stepped it up during a contract year. That's what is called a 'money run'. I still like the signing because it gives Sweetney a shot to play his normal position and gives him an opportunity to turn into a premier power forward in the East. So considering the Knicks needed a big man in the worst way and considering Isiah doesnt give a damn about the cap it was a decent move. You're talking about the draft picks we've acquired and their probably not going to play much except for Frye. Larry Brown is notorius for not playing rookies. To be honest I'm worried about the development of Ariza, Robinson and David Lee. Their probably not going to get much action. The Cavaliers have improved much more than the Knicks did as did the Bucks. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">That remains to be seen; I feel that we are on the same level as the Cavaliers and the Bucks now that we?ve gotten Larry Brown and Jerome James.</div> Wishful thinking. Jerome James isnt that great, the Knicks were just that bad. Pachulia would have probably been a better player to go after. He's pretty big as well, younger, and would have been alot cheaper. The Cavs added a first all team defender in Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, their going to bring back Big Z, they still have Gooden and of course LeBron. I'm not sure what's going on at the point position but they'll think of something. And the Bucks added Simmons and Bogut to the team their much improved as well. Larry Brown is a good coach but in the end it all comes down to the players and the Knicks just dont have the players to do anything significant. Correction the Knicks have the talent and players they just dont have team. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, the Raptors barely got better if any at all and we got much better and we?ll do worse than them? How so?</div> We're not going to do worse. We're going to beat the Raptors in a rat race and become the rulers of the depths of the Atlantic. Although his is one race I'm not sure I want to win. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
I actually agree with everything Tribute just posted, especially the concern with the young player's development.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Not trying to start anything, but why do you feel so? The Knicks got better with 3 draft picks who will be contributing right away, and they have a legit center now - one who will make a greater impact now that he's playing in the Eastern Conference. If anything of what he said is true, this whole-new Jerome James should be even better now that he's got his head on straight. We also got Larry Brown - the best coach in the game right now. Time will tell what happens, but how do you really expect the Raptors to compete when they haven't done too much in free agency; in fact, they also lost Donyell Marshall who was a very solid player for them. There have been rumors that Matt Bonner might be leaving as well which will further subtract from Toronto. Sure the fact that Bosh will get better is a positive, but do you think it will be enough to make up for their loss(es)?</div> I agree that Nate Robinson will be capable of having an immediate impact from game one. But I would question Frye and Lee's ability to contribute right away. Not to mention Larry Brown is about winning and will most likely will restrict time given to unrefined rookie players. Lee will be among the whatever # of PFs on knicks, and probably doesn't deserve minutes over Rose, Sweetney, and the hustle minutes from JYD.
