<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thefranchise3:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not even going to argue that trade, because Watson, Swift and Bonzi would be a disaster for this organization. I've made my points, but what I would argue is your cap flexibility. We currently have roughly 6 mil to spend this offseason without going over the cap, if we actually did sign Sam Mitchell, that would leave 1.6 mil out of that original 6, for the next three years (3 yr, 5 mil deal). Now were left with 4.4 mil, and lets say we actually do this trade, +1.7 mil that we saved to make our spendings to 6.1 mil. Lets say we were to sign Hudson in the FA market, plus Mo Pete (for more depth and shooting), and Etan Thomas like you said. This could even go for a combo of players like Brian Skinner, Damon Jones and Mo (all FAs). Hudson and Etan Thomas will most likely go for 5 mil next season (full MLE with raises). This leaves us in a hole, not only with a worse team, but it still doesn't give us the cap flexibility you are mentioning. We might be able to re-sign Mo Pete for about 2.5 mil, but since we can't sign one of those two, our team won't improve.</div> Wait? how does sam mitchell, the coach count against the cap? i didn't suggest we sign both etan and hudson, i was implying one of the two. damon jones and brian skinner would be considerations to sign for the veteran minimum. however, mo pete i would consider letting go, unless he accepts an one year deal for the league minimum in the hope of showcasing his skills. u can summarily dismiss the trade but your just looking beyond the greatest trade in franchise history.
Greatest trade in franchise history? What are you smoking lol It would give us too many PG's though: PG: Troy Hudson/ Earl Watson/ Alvin Williams/ Milt Palacio SG: Jalen Rose/ Morris Peterson SF: Bonzi Wells/ Lammond Murray PF: Chris Bosh/ Stromile Swift C: Rafael Araujo/ Jerome Moiso I was thinking we could do something like this: Some guys that could be signed as third rotation players: Keyon Dooling: Replace Milt Palacio, he can shoot, and is not a real PG, but is better than Milt and actually has potential to be decent. Steven Hunter: Replace Robert Archibald, and common do I need to say more, Hunter wants to be good but hasn't put that will into work, and he's athletic and can block shot, good enough for our 3rd center that will likely be on the IL or if he improves get PT. <u>Rotation Players:</u> Assuming we keep Lammond, we only have a decent backup at the SF and PF spots. We need a backup at the point guard, shooting guard, and center positions. Backup PG: Damon Jones, Alvin will be backup if we sign Hudson, Rafer (not too likely), Carlos Arroyo is also a possiblity. So my prediciton is that we get Troy Hudson Backup SG: Matt Barnes, Jon Barry, Rasual Butler, Ronald Dupree, Richie Frahm, Bob Sura. I'd really like Rasual Butler, but I don't think it's a big possibility, I'll go with us getting Richie Frahm, he can shoot and is a good defender. Matt Barnes wouldn't be a bad option either, he's pretty good and he's young, 24 years old. Backup C: Now we can look for a starter and have Araujo coming off the bench, but some choices are: Adonal Foyle, Robert Traylor, Etan Thomas (likel going to Boston) and Jason Collier who's more of a perimeter center. I'll go with us getting Tractor Traylor as a backup (cheap) because others are looking for Foyle who is still maybe a possiblity. Another possiblity is to trade Donyell Marshall in a package with one of our other players to a team for some rotations guys. Also Brian Cardinal and Rodney white are FA SF's to look at. <u>Our Lineup</u> PG: Troy Hudson/ Alvin Williams/ Keyon Dooling SG: Jalen Rose/ Richie Frahm/ Roger Mason SF: Vince Carter/ Lammond Murray/ Matt Barnes PF: Chris Bosh/ Donyell Marshall/ Jerome Moiso C: Rafael Araujo/ Robert Traylor/ Steven Hunter or PG: Troy Hudson/ Alvin Williams/ Keyon Dooling SG: Jalen Rose/ Matt Barnes/ Roger Mason SF: Vince Carter/ Rodney White-Lammond Murray PF: Chris Bosh/ Donyell Marshall/ Jerome Moiso C: Adonal Foyle/ Rafael Araujo/ Steven Hunter Three of those guys will be on the IL, likely Steven Hunter, Alvin Williams (yes you will be injured), and Roger Mason, but he'll (Roger) hopefuly be pretty decent soon.
What's up with Keon Clark, isn't he a free agent. Somewhat Boshlike and then we'd have two skinny guys dunking on much bigger guys. Tons of blocks etc. What's the possibility of JYD comin back. How many years does he have left. What about Jeff Foster? Gadzuric?
I'd like Gadzuric, I'm not sure about his current contract situation, I think he has one more year though, but he was a sceond round pick so the Bucks can match up to 4.5 million I think on him. Anyways Keon is an FA but I don't think he'll want back and he hasn't even played the whole year (hardly) Jeff Foster is chilling on the Pacers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Greatest trade in franchise history? What are you smoking lol It would give us too many PG's though: PG: Troy Hudson/ Earl Watson/ Alvin Williams/ Milt Palacio SG: Jalen Rose/ Morris Peterson SF: Bonzi Wells/ Lammond Murray PF: Chris Bosh/ Stromile Swift C: Rafael Araujo/ Jerome Moiso I was thinking we could do something like this: Some guys that could be signed as third rotation players: Keyon Dooling: Replace Milt Palacio, he can shoot, and is not a real PG, but is better than Milt and actually has potential to be decent. Steven Hunter: Replace Robert Archibald, and common do I need to say more, Hunter wants to be good but hasn't put that will into work, and he's athletic and can block shot, good enough for our 3rd center that will likely be on the IL or if he improves get PT. <u>Rotation Players:</u> Assuming we keep Lammond, we only have a decent backup at the SF and PF spots. We need a backup at the point guard, shooting guard, and center positions. Backup PG: Damon Jones, Alvin will be backup if we sign Hudson, Rafer (not too likely), Carlos Arroyo is also a possiblity. So my prediciton is that we get Troy Hudson Backup SG: Matt Barnes, Jon Barry, Rasual Butler, Ronald Dupree, Richie Frahm, Bob Sura. I'd really like Rasual Butler, but I don't think it's a big possibility, I'll go with us getting Richie Frahm, he can shoot and is a good defender. Matt Barnes wouldn't be a bad option either, he's pretty good and he's young, 24 years old. Backup C: Now we can look for a starter and have Araujo coming off the bench, but some choices are: Adonal Foyle, Robert Traylor, Etan Thomas (likel going to Boston) and Jason Collier who's more of a perimeter center. I'll go with us getting Tractor Traylor as a backup (cheap) because others are looking for Foyle who is still maybe a possiblity. Another possiblity is to trade Donyell Marshall in a package with one of our other players to a team for some rotations guys. Also Brian Cardinal and Rodney white are FA SF's to look at. <u>Our Lineup</u> PG: Troy Hudson/ Alvin Williams/ Keyon Dooling SG: Jalen Rose/ Richie Frahm/ Roger Mason SF: Vince Carter/ Lammond Murray/ Matt Barnes PF: Chris Bosh/ Donyell Marshall/ Jerome Moiso C: Rafael Araujo/ Robert Traylor/ Steven Hunter or PG: Troy Hudson/ Alvin Williams/ Keyon Dooling SG: Jalen Rose/ Matt Barnes/ Roger Mason SF: Vince Carter/ Rodney White-Lammond Murray PF: Chris Bosh/ Donyell Marshall/ Jerome Moiso C: Adonal Foyle/ Rafael Araujo/ Steven Hunter Three of those guys will be on the IL, likely Steven Hunter, Alvin Williams (yes you will be injured), and Roger Mason, but he'll (Roger) hopefuly be pretty decent soon.</div> i'm for pot legalization but i ain't smoking anything. i think palacio and mason are free agents and both haven't displayed anything to merit another contract. keyon dooling is an interesting proposition but i think people might award his potential and give him the mid level exception and the same for Rodney white. adonal foyle is too injury prone for me to even consider the dude and way too inconsistent. at least araujo id=s hardnose and the cheapshots are all constant. i hate those unknown variables. btw, i would wait on moiso, he's too talented to pass by. i think a task master, drill sergeant like o'neill hindered moiso's performance. a system that permits him to freelance would allow him to excel. who's this barnes kid?
lol I'm also a Clippers fan and anyone that gives Keyon Dooling mid-level is stupid IMO. I also have hope im Moiso. Palacio has about the same contract as Moiso so he has one more year, wwe haven't rid ourselves of him yet. Roger Mason is an FA, I wouldn't sign him back if we can get someone like Matt Barnes, I liked what I saw from him in LA, and Richie Frahm would be a good addition over Mo-Pete, he doesn't camp out in the corner all day.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">lol I'm also a Clippers fan and anyone that gives Keyon Dooling mid-level is stupid IMO. I also have hope im Moiso. Palacio has about the same contract as Moiso so he has one more year, wwe haven't rid ourselves of him yet. Roger Mason is an FA, I wouldn't sign him back if we can get someone like Matt Barnes, I liked what I saw from him in LA, and Richie Frahm would be a good addition over Mo-Pete, he doesn't camp out in the corner all day.</div> i hate frahm, i hate those dudes that play for gonzaga. any D1 university that doesn't have any black guys on their team has issues.anyways, he's really undersized for a two and didn't the bobcats select him. i think his stock rose when he scored 31 when allen was injured. btw, i really think palacio is a FA. kenny anderson is a good option, i heard him say he wanted to sign here last year.
The greatest trade in franchise history??? ya right... Antwawn Jamison for Vince Carter was the greatest trade in franchise history.. This is probably one of the top 5 worst ones. This deal in no way makes the raptors better. It just makes the Raptors worse, your trading 2 starters for 1 starter and 2 bench players, in the 2 starters your trading a superstar in Vince Carter, and one of the best and most consistent raptors last year in Marshall. It also only frees up about 2 mil in salaries so it doesnt make sense. And you recieve an overpaid player in Bonzi wells, and 1 mediocre bench player in Watson, and an okay bench player in Swift. Also since we are getting Hudson like you say... we would have 4 point guards and that wouldnt do us any good and i think that Alvin Willaims is much better then Watson if he wasnt injured all the time and, we could get Hudson without this trade anyways, so its basically Wells+Swift for Carter+Marshall.. IMO this is a stupid trade for the raptors.
I don't think we should make any trades with the Grizz unless we can get J Will in a deal with Alvin and maybe some picks. (If Watson is really as good as advertised then the grizz would have no problem making this deal.) As erratic as he may be J Will is a solid pg and it would be fun to see VC and him in the same lineup. Before any trades we should just try and find the best free agents that would sign with us. I don't think Nash is going to play in Dallas next year and of course it would be a tough sign but he's the most likely of the big name players to sign here. If we're gonna loose Mo Pete the least we should do is sign and trade to the Bulls for JYD, not just for the spark he brings but because he would be the co-face of the Raptors with VC. Im gonna enjoy this offseason, the dismatling of the Lakers, new GM in toronto and an expansion team that already looks better than the Bulls (well not quite).
I just say Trade VC to Bucks for Redd/Mason somehow.... like u get a hyped Dunker and an outstanding shooter... but it will be hard to see it happen
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i hate frahm, i hate those dudes that play for gonzaga. any D1 university that doesn't have any black guys on their team has issues.anyways, he's really undersized for a two and didn't the bobcats select him. i think his stock rose when he scored 31 when allen was injured. btw, i really think palacio is a FA. kenny anderson is a good option, i heard him say he wanted to sign here last year.</div> lol well I'm not getting into the politics of signing the player, just want the team to be good. If we could trade Carter magically for Redd and Mason I'd give Rob Babcock some respect for that, never happening though but...
Babcock would be some kind of genius if he pulled that off. But I just wish that Carter would play like the player he is Redd(Shooting)+Mason(dunking, driving)=VC
I wonder if Araujo could do Air alert . get some hops, but I'm interested in seeing what Babcock will do, he wants to re-sign Mo-Pete, I'm not high on it but s'all good. Sam Mitchell has said he wants to make us run and we'll need the players to do that. Keyon Dooling like I said a few times can be a good pickup as a Milt replacement, he can push the ball, id very athletic, and he can shoot, not the greatest passer but this is a Milt replacement we're talking about. I'm hoping people slip on him and we get him for cheap, because he's still young and can improve as a PG with good coaching (get Avery Johnson in here) We still need an up tempo PG, that will be one of the defining points, I don't want Rose playing PG again this season. If we could get Brian Skinner that would also be great, he's great at running the floor, ahh, so many possibilities, July 15th is the day.
It looks like it could be a breakout year for VC or a comeback year. With all the TMac Vs. Kobe talk it keeps the other, once high profile MJ comparison player under the radar. VC is healing this offseason and last year he looked decently healthy and ready. Jalen Rose will help keep defences honest and could get VC going. Sam Mitchell could get VC going. CB4 is on this team and Aroujo is a big man who will open the floor. With all this happening it looks like VC has a great opportunity to rule the Eastern Confrence and although I don't see an MVP happening, if there was a Eastern Confrence MVP he could very well be it. About TMac and Kobe, useless argument, both are top 5 players in this league and both can be unstopable. Kobe is more ignorant and TMac left the Raptors, these are the reasons they are not my favoutite players. However I think TMac is a better player than Kobe. And TMac/Yao would wreck a Shaq/Kobe. The difference, TMac and Yao want to play together and the guard is the better player in this one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ADubb20:</div><div class="quote_post">It looks like it could be a breakout year for VC or a comeback year. With all the TMac Vs. Kobe talk it keeps the other, once high profile MJ comparison player under the radar. VC is healing this offseason and last year he looked decently healthy and ready. Jalen Rose will help keep defences honest and could get VC going. Sam Mitchell could get VC going. CB4 is on this team and Aroujo is a big man who will open the floor. With all this happening it looks like VC has a great opportunity to rule the Eastern Confrence and although I don't see an MVP happening, if there was a Eastern Confrence MVP he could very well be it. About TMac and Kobe, useless argument, both are top 5 players in this league and both can be unstopable. Kobe is more ignorant and TMac left the Raptors, these are the reasons they are not my favoutite players. However I think TMac is a better player than Kobe. And TMac/Yao would wreck a Shaq/Kobe. The difference, TMac and Yao want to play together and the guard is the better player in this one.</div> didn't we think o'neill was going to motivate vince? a kobe is the greatest crunch time player in the nba currently, i don't care who averages more points, i care who hits more game winning shots. kobe is the better player, no debate.
O'neill was an idiot, who was a defensive coach he tried to make his players only play defence and only wanted VC and Jalen to get post up plays. I didn't hear good things about O'Neill after the hire but I hear great things about this guy. Id rather send an extra man to guard Shaq down low than Kobe on the outside when youre up 1 or 2. Id tripple team TMac however. The Lakers organization is better than the Magics, they know what they are doing surrounding Kobe with the players he was around. There was a time when Kobe bricked two consecutive threes in the playoffs in crunch time. We're all gonna see however, heres another thing to quote me on top of VC playing 80 games, TMac and his team are going deep into the playoffs and Kobe's team (if Shaq is gone and they don't get another star player) is gonna be pretty bad. The Hornets are gonna be better.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Mitchell wants to run a 9 man rotation, that could be interesting.</div> yeah i caught that, that would be good for vince's legs. i think the bucks did something like that.
Yup, he want's us to run so it would be good, Redd played 36.8 minutes still though, but I'd think we'd have something like: PG: Starter (29 minutes), Backups (19 minutes) SG: Rose (33 minutes), Backups (15 minutes) SF: Carter (36 minutes), Backups (12 minutes) PF: Bosh (31 minutes), Backups (17 minutes) C: Starter (23 minutes), Backups (25 minutes) <u>So it could be something like: </u> Alvin Williams (when he's alive) - 19 minutes Morris Peterson -15 minutes at SG, and 11 minutes at SF (24) Donyell Marshall - 17 minutes at PF, and 10 at C (25) Some C - 15 minutes at C
