<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah I know. It's sad really. Now there's hardly a decent big man left outside of Bogut. Petro is years away from being ready, Vazquez doesnt have as much upside as Splitter and Fyre sucks. This is depressing...we should probably draft a two guard or swingman now. I say Antoine Wright. Then again Martynas is still in...perhaps take a gamble on him? Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div> You say Frye sucks and yet you want to draft Martynas ? who is also years away from being ready? Martynas? stock is lower than Taft?s and there?s no way I?d draft him. You can?t live the dream if you don?t play the game, but it?s not like we?re losing a dollar or two here. We?re losing out on a franchise lifting player to help us reach the playoffs again. It?s official, Frye has added that weight and everything. Why not draft him, we do need a big man.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">You say Frye sucks and yet you want to draft Martynas ? who is also years away from being ready? Martynas? stock is lower than Taft?s and there?s no way I?d draft him. You can?t live the dream if you don?t play the game, but it?s not like we?re losing a dollar or two here. We?re losing out on a franchise lifting player to help us reach the playoffs again. It?s official, Frye has added that weight and everything. Why not draft him, we do need a big man.</div> I actually wouldnt mind waiting a few years for Martynas or Petro. Fyre is in no way shape or form lottery material. At the most he's a solid starter and he'll probably be no better than Kurt Thomas. And who cares about the stock of the player? Ginobli's stock was low when he got drafted by San Antonio and look at him now. We're already losing out on a franchise lifting player who's going to help us reach the playoffs if we draft Fyre. At the least with Martynas we'll draft a player who has the potential to be a dominant center in the league. And Fyre is too soft. He could be three hundred pounds and I wouldnt want him. I say trade the pick for Curry rather than draft Fyre. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">I actually wouldnt mind waiting a few years for Martynas or Petro. Fyre is in no way shape or form lottery material. At the most he's a solid starter and he'll probably be no better than Kurt Thomas. And who cares about the stock of the player? Ginobli's stock was low when he got drafted by San Antonio and look at him now. We're already losing out on a franchise lifting player who's going to help us reach the playoffs if we draft Fyre. At the least with Martynas we'll draft a player who has the potential to be a dominant center in the league. And Fyre is too soft. He could be three hundred pounds and I wouldnt want him. I say trade the pick for Curry rather than draft Fyre. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div> Why not? The only real questions about his game was his weight, and his intensity level. He's fixed those, and now he seems legit. Why can't he better than Kurt? He has the jumper that Kurt has, plus more skills, is more athletic, a better shot blocker, and is taller. Ginobili was drafted a while ago. He wasn't ready and the Spurs kept him overseas for four years! He should have gone higher in hindsight, but you're bringing up one of the biggest steals in recent history. There aren't many steals like Ginobili that exist. It's highly unlikely there's even one in this draft.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Why not? The only real questions about his game was his weight, and his intensity level. He's fixed those, and now he seems legit. Why can't he better than Kurt? He has the jumper that Kurt has, plus more skills, is more athletic, a better shot blocker, and is taller. Ginobili was drafted a while ago. He wasn't ready and the Spurs kept him overseas for four years! He should have gone higher in hindsight, but you're bringing up one of the biggest steals in recent history. There aren't many steals like Ginobili that exist. It's highly unlikely there's even one in this draft.</div> No those were the biggest glaring flaws in his game. He wasnt quick enough to be a powerforward and he wasnt strong enough to be a center. He looked like he didnt have a position. The question wasnt whether he was going to be a good player or not it was more like can he even play in the NBA. According to these reports(which I still dont buy, Fyre could not have possibly added on all that muscle and get quicker at the same time it doesnt add up)he now has a position so he can be an alright player in the NBA. Now the question is how good will he be? Fyre has already committed himself to playing on the perimeter. Fyre may very well be a better blocker than Kurt Thomas and I dont know about more athletic. I dont think I've ever heard of him being described as athletic. The best I ever heard regarding his athleticism was the word "mobile". And just because he's taller doesnt mean a thing. Jason Collins is taller than Kurt Thomas and Kurt Thomas is without a doubt better than him. Fyre looks like he's going to be a Troy Murphy kind of player. Better defense but weaker jumpshot and rebounding. And I personally would rather have Kurt Thomas than Troy Murphy. I brought up Ginobli because you seem to think that just because a player's draft stock is low they arent and will not be good players. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
Martynas is too weak for the league, he needs to develop his physicallity Splitter has pulled out...and thats a major blow, a 7 foot versitle shot blocking defensive PF with perimeter skills would of been a huge upgrade for the Knicks
Draft Preview: Big Men <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NEW YORK, NY, June 22, 2005 -- The New York Knicks are the most vertically challenged NBA team in the paint. More than in other area, the Knicks need to improve on defense. Make no mistake, these two indisputable facts have more than a little to do with each other. Talk to any Knicks player about areas of potential improvement and he?ll tell you ?we need a big guy to take up space, throw his body around, defend physically, and block shots.? Talk to Kurt Thomas and the hard-nosed 6-9 power broker will look at you imploringly: ?I?ll do any thing for the Knicks, you know that,? he says. ?But, for the good of the team, we need a real big man in the middle. I?m a power forward.? Last season the Knicks finished 22nd in the NBA in rebounds and last in blocked shots. And those numbers don?t even begin to tell the full story: besides his rejections, a legitimate life-size shot-blocker changes the arc on many more attempts at the basket, turning good shots into not so good shots. And, at its simplest common denominator, basketball is about getting better shots than your opponent; more often than not if you do that, you win. A top rejection-ist also allows the perimeter defenders to play more aggressively, creating better defensive chemistry. And, on the other end of the floor, the chemical benefits of another top low post attacker -- to go with Michael Sweetney and Mo Taylor -- would be immeasurable as well. Thus, while Knicks President, Basketball Operations, Isiah Thomas has flatly stated ?we?ll pick the best player available?, expect him to look hard and long at improving the inside situation in the draft. These will be the top post players available on June 28th:</div> Knicks.com
Taft, May Clear Up Mysteries At Workouts <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">GREENBURGH, NY, June 21, 2005 -- Paging Hercule Poirot. Calling Sherlock Holmes. On a misty Tuesday morning, the New York Knicks worked out probably the two most mystifying players in the 2005 NBA Draft at their Madison Square Garden Training Center. "I'm the most controversial player in the draft," 6-11 Pitt power source Chris Taft flashes an inscrutable smile. "And I have no idea why." That's another mystery because the reasons appear quite apparent: after the end of his freshman season, the rock-like Taft was tagged as a surefire lottery selection as perhaps the nation's most promising young big man. A year later...well, people just don't know. As good as Taft was as a sophomore, when a kid this gifted and this big gives you just 13.3 points and 7.5 rebounds a game (as well as less than 2 blocked shots) it's difficult to get rid of that pesky he-should-have-been-better feeling. It's not the talent -- he's as quick and agile as any big guy around and then some. It's not the build -- the sculpted 260-pound Taft owns a body from God. Still, for whatever reason, this personable and well-spoken center/forward has not been consistent as a college player at Pitt and really hasn't developed anything resembling a go-to post-move. "What you must understand is how much I've improved my offense SINCE my season ended," says Taft, joining the ever-growing number of Knicks-workout participants (Allan Anderson of Michigan State, Northwestern's T.J. Parker, et. al.) who feel that they were somehow held back -- or at least haven't had their chance to show their real stuff -- in their college system. Which is something of a semi-mystery in itself.</div> Knicks.com
Sorry for the triple post; I wanted to separate the articles. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No those were the biggest glaring flaws in his game. He wasnt quick enough to be a powerforward and he wasnt strong enough to be a center. He looked like he didnt have a position. The question wasnt whether he was going to be a good player or not it was more like can he even play in the NBA. According to these reports(which I still dont buy, Fyre could not have possibly added on all that muscle and get quicker at the same time it doesnt add up)he now has a position so he can be an alright player in the NBA. Now the question is how good will he be? Fyre has already committed himself to playing on the perimeter. Fyre may very well be a better blocker than Kurt Thomas and I dont know about more athletic. I dont think I've ever heard of him being described as athletic. The best I ever heard regarding his athleticism was the word "mobile". And just because he's taller doesnt mean a thing. Jason Collins is taller than Kurt Thomas and Kurt Thomas is without a doubt better than him. Fyre looks like he's going to be a Troy Murphy kind of player. Better defense but weaker jumpshot and rebounding. And I personally would rather have Kurt Thomas than Troy Murphy. I brought up Ginobli because you seem to think that just because a player's draft stock is low they arent and will not be good players.</div> Well Frye fixed those glaring flaws, now he has an actual position on the court which is center. He got quicker, more explosive and is able to jump higher. I told you that ATTACK program is really helping him. How don?t you buy those reports? I?m sure they just wouldn?t randomly make something up like this. In fact, someone on this site, KICKSDADDY613, actually saw the man in person and said he looked very impressive and is closer to 270 pounds! He has the most reliable draft sources out of anyone in the whole board. Now with his body ready for the pounding of the NBA life, he shouldn?t only be on the perimeter; I expect him to go get inside use his many tools. You are aware of his moves in the post and now with his explosiveness, he should be more suited. This should work especially because opponents won?t be able to play away from him because of his jumper. Channing Frye is much more mobile and athletic than Kurt Thomas. Every source is saying how athletic he is ? including the Draftcity/Express one. Even if you do think Channing Frye is the next Troy Murphy, could it really hurt us to have someone like Murphy around? Last year in Golden State, he averaged about 15 points and 11 rebounds. He?s also only 25 years old so he can still improve. Also don?t forget that he can work with Mark Aguirre who is known to work wonders with big men. Remember Nazr Mohammed, Tribute? Now, the Knicks have a younger, taller, stronger, more skilled, more talented version of him. Plus at this stage, Frye is the second best center in the draft and Kurt Thomas does not want to play another year of center and shouldn?t either; he?s a power forward. With Frye, the Knicks will get a good shot-blocker, someone who can compliment Sweetney in the post with a jumper and can also post up himself. I see what you?re saying with Ginobili, but I don?t think because a players stock is low they won?t be good. My point was on Martynas? stock plummeting. Many felt Martynas would be a top three pick in the lottery; in fact, many felt he was a lock for the top five. Now that he?s probably going somewhere in the 20?s I think it?s an indication ? just like Chris Taft?s stock which has sunk just as much as Martynas?.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry for the triple post; I wanted to separate the articles. Well Frye fixed those glaring flaws, now he has an actual position on the court which is center. He got quicker, more explosive and is able to jump higher. I told you that ATTACK program is really helping him. How don?t you buy those reports? I?m sure they just wouldn?t randomly make something up like this. In fact, someone on this site, KICKSDADDY613, actually saw the man in person and said he looked very impressive and is closer to 270 pounds! He has the most reliable draft sources out of anyone in the whole board. Now with his body ready for the pounding of the NBA life, he shouldn?t only be on the perimeter; I expect him to go get inside use his many tools. You are aware of his moves in the post and now with his explosiveness, he should be more suited. This should work especially because opponents won?t be able to play away from him because of his jumper. Channing Frye is much more mobile and athletic than Kurt Thomas. Every source is saying how athletic he is ? including the Draftcity/Express one. Even if you do think Channing Frye is the next Troy Murphy, could it really hurt us to have someone like Murphy around? Last year in Golden State, he averaged about 15 points and 11 rebounds. He?s also only 25 years old so he can still improve. Also don?t forget that he can work with Mark Aguirre who is known to work wonders with big men. Remember Nazr Mohammed, Tribute? Now, the Knicks have a younger, taller, stronger, more skilled, more talented version of him. Plus at this stage, Frye is the second best center in the draft and Kurt Thomas does not want to play another year of center and shouldn?t either; he?s a power forward. With Frye, the Knicks will get a good shot-blocker, someone who can compliment Sweetney in the post with a jumper and can also post up himself. I see what you?re saying with Ginobili, but I don?t think because a players stock is low they won?t be good. My point was on Martynas? stock plummeting. Many felt Martynas would be a top three pick in the lottery; in fact, many felt he was a lock for the top five. Now that he?s probably going somewhere in the 20?s I think it?s an indication ? just like Chris Taft?s stock which has sunk just as much as Martynas?.</div> Listen here. The ATTACK program is a great program but they dont work miracles. Fyre gaining all that muscle on that frame of his and moving even quicker than before just is not logical. I can believe the reports about his better shooting because that makes sense. I could even believe that Fyre can shoot from half court with a good deal of consistency. That is in the realm of reason but that other stuff...no. He shouldnt be just on the perimeter but that's what he's going to do which is why I dont want him! He doesnt want to bang inside at all. HE IS TOO SOFT!!! What part of that dont you understand? You're right though about him being more athletic than Kurt Thomas. I somehow missed that but noone makes a big deal out of his athleticism. He's not in Vazquez's league of or even Splitter's but he's a decent athlete. A better than average athlete if you consider his size. As for the Troy Murphy thing I did say Troy Murphy with worse shooting and worse rebounding but better defense. So he'll be a sort of watered down Troy Murphy. And I wouldnt use the 8th pick to draft Troy Murphy let alone a watered down Troy Murphy. Younger? Yes. Taller? Yes. Stronger? Not so sure about that. More talented? I guess. There's one key difference between the two however. Nazr Mohammed was strictly a low post player whereas Fyre wants to stray out to the perimeter. All the coaching and instructing in the world cant get a player to bang and be physical if they dont want to and Fyre doesnt want to. Fyre is the second best center in the draft? Wow. These are mighty sad times then when a guy like Fyre is the second best center in the draft. Actually Fran Vazquez is still better than him. Fyre may or may not be a good shot blocker and I'm leaning more towards not right now. Fyre wont be doing much posting up by the way. He'll be out on the perimeter with a powerforward guarding him while Sweetney's life is harder- because of the center that is guarding him- than it had to be because we decided to draft a player who wouldnt mix it up in the paint to help him out. I dont care how far Martynas's stock has fallen. I'd rather have a guy who has the potential to be a dominant center(and is learning from Sabonis) than a guy who will be nothing more than a solid starter. Anyway I thinK Isiah Thomas should be fired.
Here are my options over Fyre Vazquez (So physical, he'll make Fyre look like Keith Van Horn) Granger (Best all around SF in the draft) Green (the best HS product in the draft (Splitter) even though he's gone Graham (possibly the next Artest) Bynum (the best HS big man in the draft) Taft (Lazy, a spectator on the court, but if he does play to full pontetial, he could be the best big man in this draft) Charlie V (best all around big man in the draft behind Bogut) Koroslev (a great combination of athelism, skill, and shooting) Aleskandrov (more potential, could drop him off in Europe, let him develop)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Here are my options over Fyre <strike>Vazquez (So physical, he'll make Fyre look like Keith Van Horn)</strike></div> ^He might be gone; no upside either. Is considered more of a tweener than Frye. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Granger (Best all around SF in the draft)</strike></div> ^Is probably gone by then. We don't need him if we have Q. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Green (the best HS product in the draft</strike></div> ^Is probably gone by then. We don't need him if we have Q. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>(Splitter) even though he's gone</strike></div> ^Gone. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Graham (possibly the next Artest)</strike></div> ^Too bad we are already swingman friendly. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Bynum (the best HS big man in the draft)</strike></div> ^Blatche is better than Bynum but he has more upside. Isn?t even considered a lottery pick. He could be the next Desagana Diop. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Taft (Lazy, a spectator on the court, but if he does play to full pontetial, he could be the best big man in this draft)</strike></div> Taft is a terrible pick. Not worth us gambling our lottery pick. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Charlie V (best all around big man in the draft behind Bogut)</strike></div> Is a lazy, and a spectator as well; he?s probably worth a pick in the teens to 20?s. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Koroslev (a great combination of athelism, skill, and shooting)</strike></div> ^More of a swingman; we have tons of those now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><strike>Aleskandrov (more potential, could drop him off in Europe, let him develop)</strike></div> ^I think he?s gone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, Ariza is solid, and TT isn't going to be here next years, thats why I listed those swingmen</div> But we'll still have Q around with Ariza.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Listen here. The ATTACK program is a great program but they dont work miracles. Fyre gaining all that muscle on that frame of his and moving even quicker than before just is not logical. I can believe the reports about his better shooting because that makes sense. I could even believe that Fyre can shoot from half court with a good deal of consistency. That is in the realm of reason but that other stuff...no.</div> Apparently the program has worked on Frye. It might seem impossible, but it has worked. There?s no way it?s fabricated. All these reports, all these people and the man himself are all telling the truth. It?s true, Tribute. Go send a PM to KICKSDADDY613 he?s actually seen Frye in person. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He shouldnt be just on the perimeter but that's what he's going to do which is why I dont want him! He doesnt want to bang inside at all. HE IS TOO SOFT!!! What part of that dont you understand? You're right though about him being more athletic than Kurt Thomas. I somehow missed that but noone makes a big deal out of his athleticism. He's not in Vazquez's league of or even Splitter's but he's a decent athlete. A better than average athlete if you consider his size. As for the Troy Murphy thing I did say Troy Murphy with worse shooting and worse rebounding but better defense. So he'll be a sort of watered down Troy Murphy. And I wouldnt use the 8th pick to draft Troy Murphy let alone a watered down Troy Murphy.</div> He?s not as soft as he used to be last season. He played with plenty of intensity during the NCAA Tournament and also in workouts. He won?t be afraid to bang if he is 260 pounds. I believe he is in the same league as both Splitter and Vazquez in the athleticism department. Usually overseas, they make a big deal about athletic players because there are tons of stiffs over there. I?ve seen all of them play and in terms of athleticism, they?re in the same league. He said he can dunk threw the legs easy now. I don?t believe he?ll be a Troy Murphy type of player; I don?t know who he reminds me of, but not Murphy. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Younger? Yes. Taller? Yes. Stronger? Not so sure about that. More talented? I guess. There's one key difference between the two however. Nazr Mohammed was strictly a low post player whereas Fyre wants to stray out to the perimeter. All the coaching and instructing in the world cant get a player to bang and be physical if they dont want to and Fyre doesnt want to. Fyre is the second best center in the draft? Wow. These are mighty sad times then when a guy like Fyre is the second best center in the draft. Actually Fran Vazquez is still better than him. Fyre may or may not be a good shot blocker and I'm leaning more towards not right now. Fyre wont be doing much posting up by the way. He'll be out on the perimeter with a powerforward guarding him while Sweetney's life is harder- because of the center that is guarding him- than it had to be because we decided to draft a player who wouldnt mix it up in the paint to help him out.</div> But you see Frye isn?t the same Arizona Senior; he?s a whole different player. He?ll be much more physical because of his weight; he?ll have a more than solid perimeter game for a big man which will give him an edge. He?s better than Fran Vazquez and taller. Frye may not be a good shot-blocker? With his size and wingspan, he should be a very reliable one. He has pretty good footwork and should be posting up plenty with his weight now. He can also step back and hit the midrange jumper. It seems like you?re commenting on the flaws he?s fixed and if that?s the case, he should be pretty good for us than. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont care how far Martynas's stock has fallen. I'd rather have a guy who has the potential to be a dominant center(and is learning from Sabonis) than a guy who will be nothing more than a solid starter.</div> I don?t think Martynas will be anything special and if he weren?t 7-3, people wouldn?t be even talking about him. Frye has just as much or more chances of being a dominant center than Martynas.
Draft Preview - Swing Men <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NEW YORK, NY, June 23, 2005 --With a healthy Allan Houston, the Knicks would have won 5-10 extra games last season. Pure outside shooting is THAT important. The Knicks still finished mid-league in the major NBA shooting categories -- 11th in field goal percentage and 14th in trey accuracy -- which, given their relative lack of inside size, was actually rather impressive. They had plenty of overall offensive juice, enough to post their highest average (97.3 ppg.) since 1994-95, good for 14th in the league as well. But NBA offense is more than just about scoring points; it?s how you score, and when you score. And that?s where a premiere pure shooter with profound range comes into the chemical equation. Stephon Marbury (115 treys) and Jamal Crawford (185, second highest in club history) had outstanding home run seasons -- but they are streak, rather than, pure shooters. A pure perimeter gunner with range stretches defenses, opening up all kinds of driving lanes for the Marbury and Crawford-type slashing scorers; that type of player?s very presence creates superior shots for others, an essential chemical factor the Knicks simply did not have. A pure perimeter gunner is also a priceless weapon in those all-important end-game situations, an area the Knicks struggled in so mightily last season. Thus look for President, Basketball Operations Isiah Thomas to give prime precedence to a pure perimeter shooter with range and athleticism on June 28th. These will be the top swingmen on the board:</div> Knicks.com
Don't need another swingman, we got Q I would like if Isiah did this Bynum/Vazquez @ 8 Turiaf/Blachte @ 30 Tischer/Sanchez @ 54
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't need another swingman, we got Q I would like if Isiah did this Bynum/Vazquez @ 8 Turiaf/Blachte @ 30 Tischer/Sanchez @ 54</div> Q is still not a Knick, the deal is not official
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BobbyEscobar:</div><div class="quote_post">Right... lets draft 3 pf/c to add to the 3/4 we already have good thinking </div> Bynum Vazquez Turiaf and Tischer are all centers
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Bynum Vazquez Turiaf and Tischer are all centers</div> You don't want Frye and yet you want Bynum at 8th? This guy is nowhere near being NBA-ready and gets by on the high school level because he's so big. He really reminds me of Desagana Diop - he's not the maturest cat around either. He's still pretty young. I think you might be the same age as him, j0se. The rest are cool with me.
