<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">I thought the same thing about Splitter but it cant hurt having another guy who can post up especially if he's a good rebounder and shot blocker also. Besides teams are starting to play their centers on Sweetney to limit his post up game having Splitter will stop them from doing that. Besides perhaps we'll be able to trade Splitter for someone we really want.</div> Good points. He will be able to develop and will become a good asset for the future. I know about those centers but it doesn?t affect Sweetney! Remember those fade aways he uses. Plus he his bulk and agility are nice factors. Splitter will be interesting though. It wont be too bad having a projected Pau Gasol, I just think taking him out of his comfort position especially at such a young age might not be the best choice. By this time next year, I want Sweetney starting and getting high 20?s maybe even 30 minutes a game. Will Splitter take away potential minutes for him? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Nemanja...well he's 210 lbs...Is it possible for him to gain that 40 or 50 pounds we'll need him to gain to play for us. I mean we need someone who can play center. So I dont know how effective he can be for us but then again it's worth a try. Martynas looks alright although I would like it if he had a post up game. Petro would make a great back up but if he's useless on offense he's not the ideal starting center for us. The guys we should be focusing on are: Bogut, Splitter and Villainueva. We should be able to get one of these three guys. Bogut should of course top the list. How far is he going to drop realistically? With all the excitement about Chris Paul and the athleticism of Villainueva is it possible for him to fall to the 3rd spot?</div> Yeah, I didn?t realize that. Well, he can play the small so maybe Ariza at the 2, him at the 3 and Sweetney at the 4 will be okay. The thing about him is that he?s such a great prospect and I would hate for the Knicks missing out on a potential Dirk. The thing that grabbed my attention was a Big Z, and a Sabonis comparison. His upside appears to be very big. I don?t really like Petro either, no offense got to me too. Also, you can pick up some defensive oriented guys up in the 2nd round. Well, unless the Knicks pull off a trade involving Marbury, we probably can?t get a top 3 pick. Realistically, it depends on how N.O. does. They don?t need the center they have Magloire so Bogut probably wont be drafted by them. Charlotte has Okafor and they could draft him if they wanted too and possibly put Emeka at the 4 but I don?t think they will. Now Atlanta is up. It looks as if they will draft him but as you said, with Paul coming up, maybe they might pass. That leaves, Golden State, then Utah, then Toronto or maybe us up next. The only way we can increase our pick is if we trade our original, probably 7, and a decent player maybe a Kurt Thomas, and maybe a second rounder too. I hope we get Bogut. It scares me to see what Agguire will turn him into.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Good points. He will be able to develop and will become a good asset for the future. I know about those centers but it doesn?t affect Sweetney! Remember those fade aways he uses. Plus he his bulk and agility are nice factors. Splitter will be interesting though. It wont be too bad having a projected Pau Gasol, I just think taking him out of his comfort position especially at such a young age might not be the best choice. By this time next year, I want Sweetney starting and getting high 20?s maybe even 30 minutes a game. Will Splitter take away potential minutes for him? Yeah, I didn?t realize that. Well, he can play the small so maybe Ariza at the 2, him at the 3 and Sweetney at the 4 will be okay. The thing about him is that he?s such a great prospect and I would hate for the Knicks missing out on a potential Dirk. The thing that grabbed my attention was a Big Z, and a Sabonis comparison. His upside appears to be very big. I don?t really like Petro either, no offense got to me too. Also, you can pick up some defensive oriented guys up in the 2nd round. Well, unless the Knicks pull off a trade involving Marbury, we probably can?t get a top 3 pick. Realistically, it depends on how N.O. does. They don?t need the center they have Magloire so Bogut probably wont be drafted by them. Charlotte has Okafor and they could draft him if they wanted too and possibly put Emeka at the 4 but I don?t think they will. Now Atlanta is up. It looks as if they will draft him but as you said, with Paul coming up, maybe they might pass. That leaves, Golden State, then Utah, then Toronto or maybe us up next. The only way we can increase our pick is if we trade our original, probably 7, and a decent player maybe a Kurt Thomas, and maybe a second rounder too. I hope we get Bogut. It scares me to see what Agguire will turn him into.</div> It's true Sweetney finds a way to get around centers guarding him but why make things hard for him. Why take a fadeaway jumper over a 6'11 player when he can just shove a powerforward under the basket and finish strong? Taking Splitter out of his comfort zone now is the best way to go while he's still young and capable of learning new tricks instead of later when it really will be detrimental to his play. I wasnt thinking of playing Splitter at powerforward...I was thinking of converting him to center so Sweetney will not be hampered. Kurt will have to be gone for Sweetney to play that many minutes by the way, he should be traded on draft day for a player selected in the first round that we want and a draft pick for 2006. Defensively playing him at the 3 doesnt work. It's just asking way too much. Plus he wont have the mobility edge on offense he usually enjoys when he plays powerforward. There is another potential Dirk in the draft. It's a Russian fellow by the name of Vladimir Veremoonk(something like that). He has to improve his three point range but he's reliable from the midrange, can put the ball on the floor, is a good help defender and I believe is a great rebounder by European standards. He needs to bulk up some but he's definetely worth taking a look at. He's projected to go late in the first round. I was thinking we could make a deal with the Mavericks, have them pick him and trade Kurt for him and a first rounder the following year. Doesnt look like our chances of getting Bogut are good. What if we tank the season now? Our chances are much better right? I hope we do get Bogut. I've already started daydreaming about the damage him and Sweetney would do together. While it might scare you thinking about the monster Bogut would become under Agguire it brings a smile to my face.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">It's true Sweetney finds a way to get around centers guarding him but why make things hard for him. Why take a fadeaway jumper over a 6'11 player when he can just shove a powerforward under the basket and finish strong? Taking Splitter out of his comfort zone now is the best way to go while he's still young and capable of learning new tricks instead of later when it really will be detrimental to his play. I wasnt thinking of playing Splitter at powerforward...I was thinking of converting him to center so Sweetney will not be hampered. Kurt will have to be gone for Sweetney to play that many minutes by the way, he should be traded on draft day for a player selected in the first round that we want and a draft pick for 2006.</div> I see what you're saying. Teaching him while he's young. Hopefully he can work out for us. I wouldn't mind having him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Defensively playing him at the 3 doesnt work. It's just asking way too much. Plus he wont have the mobility edge on offense he usually enjoys when he plays powerforward. There is another potential Dirk in the draft. It's a Russian fellow by the name of Vladimir Veremoonk(something like that). He has to improve his three point range but he's reliable from the midrange, can put the ball on the floor, is a good help defender and I believe is a great rebounder by European standards. He needs to bulk up some but he's definetely worth taking a look at. He's projected to go late in the first round. I was thinking we could make a deal with the Mavericks, have them pick him and trade Kurt for him and a first rounder the following year. </div> I never heard of that Vlad. I tried searching for him but I didn't get any results. The way he sounds I would take a look at but do you think we should trade Kurt Thomas for him? We could get higher in the draft with a Kurt Thomas trade. Many teams would welcome a solid double double and a good defender and veteran. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Doesnt look like our chances of getting Bogut are good. What if we tank the season now? Our chances are much better right? I hope we do get Bogut. I've already started daydreaming about the damage him and Sweetney would do together. While it might scare you thinking about the monster Bogut would become under Agguire it brings a smile to my face. </div> I would welcome a tank (even though it's hard to turn on TV and watch the playoffs) but the question is, will the Knicks do it. I doubt they would. Bogut will be a hard task. We probably wont be able to get him without giving up Ariza or Sweetney or at the very least Marbury. I do think maybe Marbury and our pick in the 1st round could really work out. It would be a killer seeing Bogut and Sweetney do their thing in the years to come. While your smile looks like this: , mine looks like this: !
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post"> There is another potential Dirk in the draft. It's a Russian fellow by the name of Vladimir Veremoonk(something like that). He has to improve his three point range but he's reliable from the midrange, can put the ball on the floor, is a good help defender and I believe is a great rebounder by European standards. He needs to bulk up some but he's definetely worth taking a look at. He's projected to go late in the first round. I was thinking we could make a deal with the Mavericks, have them pick him and trade Kurt for him and a first rounder the following year. </div> Very good call. I was looking some stuff up concerning this fellow a couple of months ago and he supposedly is a scoring machine. Not too strong though, as you said. But we have enough damn "athletes". <font size="4">Very good call, Tribute.</font> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Doesnt look like our chances of getting Bogut are good. What if we tank the season now? Our chances are much better right? I hope we do get Bogut. I've already started daydreaming about the damage him and Sweetney would do together. While it might scare you thinking about the monster Bogut would become under Agguire it brings a smile to my face. </div> To be perfectly honest I've been thinking about that. I really have. But how would that make the 'inexperienced' fans feel? I mean, tanking makes perfect sense to people like you, me, mrj18 and some others. But to some people who ocassionally watch the Knicks like 3 times a month and go to the games 1-4 times a month consistently, they don't understand. And enough of these fans' absence can really hurt attendance and such. That's not to say I'm not in favor of tanking. The way we're playing right now I hope we don't make the damn playoffs. If we make the playoffs, we get no draft pick and we're definently gone in the 1st round...what's the logic behind making it our goal?
Thats what I was saying a while ago. If we're not gonna advance to the playoffs we should just tank but nobody wanted that.
There's no reason any professional team should ever just "give up", not when they're making obscene amounts of money. Also, for those of you who are creaming your pants over Charlie, he's just a big ugly goon and the real person you should watch for is Chris Thomas who could be a steal in the second round.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Platehpus:</div><div class="quote_post">There's no reason any professional team should ever just "give up", not when they're making obscene amounts of money.</div> What's the point of that though? If the Knicks make the playoffs, we'll probably get eliminated in the 1st round and we'll get absolutely nothing. The smart thing for the future is to sacrifice a couple of months, for many years to come. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, for those of you who are creaming your pants over Charlie, he's just a big ugly goon and the real person you should watch for is Chris Thomas who could be a steal in the second round.</div> Please, no more scoring point guards. We have already have Marbury who isn?t scared to score (except in the final seconds ) If we?re going to get a point guard in the second round, let?s get a distributor to add some variation to our roster. I finally found this guy? Vladimir Veremeeko Russia 6?11 235 pounds 20 years old He has been projected as a poor man?s Dirk Nowitzki. Any Dirk is cool with me and would be with anyone. As was mentioned, he is skinny but that is to be expected by someone so young. This guy can shoot well. Imagine the space he?ll create for us. If we had another shooting threat it would be unbelievable. I can see it now, Sweetney posting up, and feeding him on the wing after a double team. He has a quick release which is a plus for us. He has handle to and can put the ball on the floor and takes advantage of his good mobility. Fundamentally sound which is hard to come by these days. Despite his jumpshot, he can?t really shoot NBA 3?s consistently. He is also a bad fit for the 4 in today?s NBA. He gets thrown around a bit in Europe so imagine him in the NBA. He is a good help defender but isn?t really that good shot blocking defender we all want. He?s better off as a small forward. Not a great rebounder. He?s decent in Europe, not too much in the NBA. He?s not aggressive enough and doesn?t always have that fiery will that we would like.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">What's the point of that though? If the Knicks make the playoffs, we'll probably get eliminated in the 1st round and we'll get absolutely nothing. The smart thing for the future is to sacrifice a couple of months, for many years to come.</div>Weren't we talking about this before? Glad to see the change of heart. I agree 100%
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Weren't we talking about this before? Glad to see the change of heart. I agree 100% </div> Na, I said it wasn't impossible for the Knicks to make the playoffs. To advance far, I doubt it.
Trust me, I'm a big fan of the Irish and Chris Thomas is ALWAYS looking to pass first. I've watched him go from a wild player like Ariza and turn into a great court commander who has the leadership skills to be in the NBA. Yeah, he takes a lot of dumb shots and sometimes his field goal percentage is natrocious, but coaches will shape him up in the NBA and I see him being something very special if someone takes a chance on him. And I have a feeling the Knicks will come out of the all-star break suprising everyone around the NBA...the rest will benefit everyone, and I mean EVERYONE on our team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Na, I said it wasn't impossible for the Knicks to make the playoffs. To advance far, I doubt it.</div>hahahahaha, You also said that they could win a championship this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I would rather have the Knicks make the playoffs. Ariza Crawford and Sweetney will get some valuable experience. I never said trading a pick at all but what would be wrong with that anyway? Trading a pick for an established player in the league isn't really a mistake, Washington did it and they are doing pretty well. The Knicks are capable of making the playoffs so, I should hope that they tank their games and go into the lottery?</div>This was grabbed from our previous convo. Lets just leave it at the fact that we finally agree on something . I think the Knicks have some nice young pieces to build around in Sweetney and Ariza. If they can add another nice lottery pick to the fold, they will have a solid team to make it into the playoffs and advance. Now about that Marbury character.......
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">hahahahaha, You also said that they could win a championship this year. Lets just leave it at the fact that we finally agree on something .</div> You got it all wrong. I said the chance was really slim but it was supposed to mean we don't know what will happen. I also was talking about the '99 Knicks. I have the Knicks wining a championship as a joke in another thread, trust me I know the chances of that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the Knicks have some nice young pieces to build around in Sweetney and Ariza. If they can add another nice lottery pick to the fold, they will have a solid team to make it into the playoffs and advance. Now about that Marbury character.......</div> That was a while ago CourtVision when we had much more hope.
^Well you are still the biggest Knick optimist I know so you can't give up yet. I really do think that you guys have a solid team. Add another young player to the fold, maybe a centre or even another guard and you will make it into the playoffs next year with a good chance to advance past the 1st. I was looking at Johan Petro awhile ago and I thought he might be what you guys need. He is a defence first center/power foward who has good athelitcism. Great shot blocker and rebounder. He may be able to provide a defensive presence in the paint. I would even look into the second round of the draft to pick up a good perimetre defender. Isiah's trades may not be great but he is an amazing evaluator of young talent.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Platehpus:</div><div class="quote_post">Trust me, I'm a big fan of the Irish and Chris Thomas is ALWAYS looking to pass first. I've watched him go from a wild player like Ariza and turn into a great court commander who has the leadership skills to be in the NBA. Yeah, he takes a lot of dumb shots and sometimes his field goal percentage is natrocious, but coaches will shape him up in the NBA and I see him being something very special if someone takes a chance on him.</div> I don't know, many sites I read said he was a "typical scoring point guard." I heard he gets owned a lot by guards that can shoot. He gets many turnovers too. Also, I hear much of his game his off dribble penetration like Marbury. He seems decent, just not the best choice for us though. I really would want a distributor mentality that makes smarter decisions on the court, <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And I have a feeling the Knicks will come out of the all-star break suprising everyone around the NBA...the rest will benefit everyone, and I mean EVERYONE on our team.</div> I got that same feeling they will come out strong too, but how far can they go? A strong attempt in a losing effort imo is useless. Btw, who can we get for JC? I'd trade for a 1st round pick. I have lost much of my faith with him being our future shooting guard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">^Well you are still the biggest Knick optimist I know so you can't give up yet. I really do think that you guys have a solid team. Add another young player to the fold, maybe a centre or even another guard and you will make it into the playoffs next year with a good chance to advance past the 1st. I was looking at Johan Petro awhile ago and I thought he might be what you guys need. He is a defence first center/power foward who has good athelitcism. Great shot blocker and rebounder. He may be able to provide a defensive presence in the paint. I would even look into the second round of the draft to pick up a good perimetre defender. Isiah's trades may not be great but he is an amazing evaluator of young talent.</div> You are one of the biggest Knick pessimists I know, so of course you think we have no chance at making the playoffs. Petro is alright. He will give us a defensive presence and intimidator down low. That will be a very good thing and will really help our overall defense. He can also rebound well too. The thing that's killing me is that he has no offense though. No range, no post moves, and has some baby hook he uses too often. I guess he could be transformed into something if Aguirre works with him. He is an option though and I wouldn?t be very disappointed if we got him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">You are one of the biggest Knick pessimists I know, so of course you think we have no chance at making the playoffs.</div>I would like to call myself a realist. When people say that they can take the atlantic (when they are last) and win NBA championships in the same breath I have to point it out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Petro is alright. He will give us a defensive presence and intimidator down low. That will be a very good thing and will really help our overall defense. He can also rebound well too. The thing that's killing me is that he has no offense though. No range, no post moves, and has some baby hook he uses too often. I guess he could be transformed into something if Aguirre works with him. He is an option though and I wouldn?t be very disappointed if we got him.</div>I don't think offense is something that you guys are really lacking so his lack of the latter should not be much of a problem. Everyone from Mohammed to Marbury can score plus Aguirre has done wonders with the Knicks bigs this season. His defence is much needed on this Knicks team though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I would like to call myself a realist. When people say that they can take the atlantic (when they are last) and win NBA championships in the same breath I have to point it out.</div> I consider myself a realisitc fan. When people say they can take the atlantc division (6 games back) and win the NBA championship (however, mentioning how slim it was and calling it a joke in another thread) and bring up threads months old that obviously had different outlooks at the time,I just have to point that out too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think offense is something that you guys are really lacking so his lack of the latter should not be much of a problem. Everyone from Mohammed to Marbury can score plus Aguirre has done wonders with the Knicks bigs this season. His defence is much needed on this Knicks team though.</div> Well as we see sometimes, the Knicks can really struggle on offense and sometimes depend on the guards to score too much. Also, a reliable frontcourt scorer other than Sweetney will pay off. Yes Aguirre can help, but I doubt he will trun him into a huge offensive threat simply because that isn't his game. If he could develop a reiable 15-18 foot midrange jumper, than I'd be for him. I also heard he doesn't have the experience you'd want if your going to use your first rounder on him. He is a good option and I wouldn't mind having him. Also let's stay on topic, we don't need this junk in the forum. Your attempts to try and knock me can be discussed through PM.
I don't understand why you're giving up on JC already. He has shown improvement over the season, with more penetration in his game. He's still our most clutch player with Houston out, and he's passing the ball around more. I think he deserves at least one more season with the Knicks before he's ruled out as a bust.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Platehpus:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't understand why you're giving up on JC already. He has shown improvement over the season, with more penetration in his game. He's still our most clutch player with Houston out, and he's passing the ball around more. I think he deserves at least one more season with the Knicks before he's ruled out as a bust.</div> He has been improving and everything, but is he really for this team? He feels comfortable at the 1, needs to shoot a ton of shots to score and I don't know what you mean by more penetration. He usually takes jumpers after he successfully jukes his man, instead of going to the hole. He also plays no defense which is a key reason why we are not doing well. He is clutch, but sometimes I think we wouldn't be in clutch situations with his decision making. You might be right, maybe he deserves another season, but would you pass on an opportunity to snag a great shooter?
