Official: JBB 2005 NBA Mock Draft Rnd 1 (v1.0)

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">But most of our PF's are versatile, some of them (Kurt Thomas) have a good chance of being gone by next season. There are many thin centers, but they get around. Splitter can do well because not many centers have that serious athleticism that he posseses. He is also pretty quick so he can definitely present some problems. We are looking at Petro too, I think I'd choose him in the draft if I had to choose between them to tell you the truth. You told us we shouldn't draft Petro, he was not a center. I don't see how we should draft a nice young PG. That is definitely not a main concern at all. What's the logic behind a PG playing 10 minutes at most behind Marbury? We also have Crawford who can play the point, Hardaway, and Jermaine Jackson. Drafting another PG with our lottery pick is a waste in my opinion. If anything, we can draft one with Phoenix's pick or possibly Houston's second rounder (not sure if we have it this year). Green is alright, but why is he necessary when we have a developing SG and a developing SF? The Knicks need a big man and drafting a swingman and much less a PG should not be in our plans.</div>
Petro is of course a center. At 7-0 260 with few shooting,ball handling skills,he has no other possible role. Again,a Euro part-time player with stats that make me wonder why anyone thinks he's a serious prospect. The scouting reports that,for whatever reason,seem to love him,concede he has poor work ethic,fundamentals,intensity. Would NY fans,media be content to wait for a Diop to evolve into a Duncan?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">quite seriously man you just dont know what you are talking about. Logic is not your friend i guess. I'm going to go thru this....this...tripe....in point form.</div>
How logical is drafting a PG who will at the very most play 10 minutes? I guess logic must not be your friend.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1) You're right, a good back up point guard is totally a dumb move, definetly pick up another PF....cant have enough powerforwards.</div>
Yes it is a dumb move, I'm glad you realized. Do you understand that there is something called an offseason??? I don't think you understand the concept of that. The Knicks can trade players away!
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2) DING DING DING DING DING! you got it..his weight...and his near total lack of strength! But what do i know...he'll be fine in the NBA five spot. </div>
Many players are skinny and get through. Marcus Camby is a good example. He's 6'11 225 (that's lighter than Splitter) and he manages to do very well. Chris Bosh is a toothpick and he gets by. Again, I don't know if you can comprehend this, but I'll do my best. Basketball is played for more than one year meaning Splitter has a lot of time to put on weight and become stronger especially considering his strong work ethic.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">3) Malik and JYD playing center...full-time?.....umm...ya. There's going small and then there's going stupid. Even second rate centers will man handle them in the post..they just dont have the size. Their undersized for the 4 spot man!</div>
There is an offseason, JYD and Rose can play center. I never said full time, I said they can play center to show you how versatile they are. You said 5 PF's as if there would be a serious log jam due to it, however the versatility of our 4's allow us to do more. What's stupid is you thinking the Knicks are stuck like this forever when other things can be done. JYD is not undersized at the 4, and despite Rose being undersized, he is effective. He played a majority of his basketball in the western conference and played against Tim Duncan all the time! He has experience, and can handle the east especially with few dominating big men.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4)Pape and Bonner are rookies...so of course they're unproven. But Bonner has been pretty solid and Pape has potential. Either way thats still 2 backup PF's whose first position is actually PF! Its so crazy it just might work!</div>
And you're talking to me about logic??? Please, don't make me laugh. Sorry you already did! Bonner is decent, and Pape has potnetial. A lot of players have potential! Sundov has potential I guess we can make him our starting center too! Jackie Butler has potential as well and plus he has Mark Aguirre one of the best post up greats working with him.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">5)Bonner plays with the same style has Donyell Marshall, and alot of other players. He's gritty, he'll do the dirty work, he's got decent hands and plays solid defence. Sure he scores his points off of 15 footers...but if i'm correct Kurt Thomas has done the same thing for some 12 years. so i'm forced to ask.....<cough> WHATS YOUR POINT SUZY! <cough>
Even after Bosh and Bonner and Sow, the Raps still have the option of playing Eric Williams, Aaron Williams or Lamond Murray at the foor. Aaron can do it no prob while Eric and Lamond to a lesser extent can do it vs smaller opposing PF's. Like the PF's the knicks have to offer for example. And they can do that without pulling from thier starting lineup or key bench rotation. I mean if marbury goes down then crawfords the point man, hardaway when he's not injured has to play the 2 spot, and then....um....10 day contract guys i guess. Yep definetly dont need any gaurds.</div>
No, Bonner doesn't play with the same style as Donyell! His defense is at no way shape or form close to being as good as Kurt Thomas or even Marshall for that matter. He isn't that great of a rebounder. At best I'd say decent. Please, don't compare Bonner to Kurt Thomas because what Kurt does is at another level than Bonner. I think a better comparison to make is him being like Brian Scalabrine! Suzy? Sounds like a typical 02civic weak attempt to show humor. Why is it that you always seem to make up names of girls and call them to people? Do you wish you had one?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">6)Crawford isnt exactly most people's and most teams ideal when it comes to point gaurds. Point guards are supposed to pass....and like to pass. Even better if they prefer to pass. Crawfords a shoot first, shoot second, pass third. Its a fact. Dont tell me he doesnt have a rap for being selfish with the ball. </div>
Crawford is a PG and he likes to pass. He isn't playing PG this year though! Moving over to the SG these past two years he isn't handling the ball enough to pass although he is managing to average 4.3 assists when he does get the rock. No he's not and when he is playing the role as PG the Knicks play more efficiently. I wouldn't expect you to know this because you barely watch their games. He plays in an uncontrolled manor sometimes because at a modest 6'5 and small 190 pounds, sometimes that is what he can do. When he does play PG though, the offense is run more smoothly.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">7)Marbury's had some good teams and never gone anywhere. I cant think of any team thats done anything in recent history whose point guard was the dominent offensive player.</div>
Kevin Garnett also had some good teams and made it out the first round once. Chauncey Billups was a dominant offensive player and the Pistons got a championship.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">8)Seriously i hope the Knicks do draft Splitter so that they can have 2 chuckers has their only options at the 1, and then have 6 powerfowards all to short or skinny to play center without being a defensive liability. NY has enough liabilities on defense without worrying about a 6'9 guys gaurding 7'+ players.</div>
How do you know what the trades, signings and the players that wil step up their games? Exactly, you don't and you're whole argument here is based on assumptions.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Petro is of course a center. At 7-0 260 with few shooting,ball handling skills,he has no other possible role. Again,a Euro part-time player with stats that make me wonder why anyone thinks he's a serious prospect. The scouting reports that,for whatever reason,seem to love him,concede he has poor work ethic,fundamentals,intensity. Would NY fans,media be content to wait for a Diop to evolve into a Duncan?</div>
Well a muscular, athletic 7 footer will always draw attention for a scout. The Knicks are lacking size and someone like Petro can help them. The Knicks also have Mark Aguirre who can teach him a thing or two. He is also 18 and has a lot of time to grow. He might not make an immediate impact, but with those physical gifts and that potential, he could become a good player. Maybe Diop is a little overboard, as well as Duncan but he is a project and I don't think we'll have to wait too long. If we drafted Petro, I would expect some flashes of potential in his rookie year, and in his sophomore year, I would expect some solid minutes and in his 3rd year I think he could be starting. Not too long of a wait, but I don't know how interested Isiah is in drafting overseas. I think a more likely scenario is Chris Taft.

 

I still don't get it. David Harrison,last year,was a late #1,though he had respectable numbers at Colorado. Even Diop played his HS ball at Oak Hills,then the #1 hs team in the nation. There is very little info on Petro except that his stats are very uninspiring. The vague,anonymous scouting reports rave that he is a tremendous talent-despite his few achievements-then note he is totally raw,has few actual skills and a pretty laid back approach with poor work habits. Now,if we are talking late round 2,or call us and we can have an audition,okay,but lottery? Be my guest,its not like I'm a Knicks fan,but it's only fair to warn you.

 

-and last I looked the Knicks had a lot of seriously burdensome contracts that will be VERY hard to dump,and unless they dump some,they won't be signing anyone of significance.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">How logical is drafting a PG who will at the very most play 10 minutes? I guess logic must not be your friend.</div>


You are a very 1 dimensional thinker. Who says a player like Felton or Deron Williams or a Jarret Jack would play 10 minutes? You've got Marbury and Crawford starting and no one better than decent to come in for them when they're r tired or injured. Marbury plays the 6th most minutes in the NBA and could benefit from playing a minute or two less per game. Crawford plays 37 minutes, and thats probably a good number for him.
So why not start Marbury and Crawford. A player like Deron Williams could come in for Marbury to get him 5minutes of PT, and when Crawfords out for his 7-8 minutes a game, rather than put some scrub 10 day contract guy in or being forced to relly solely on Penny "Injury" Hardaway, Marbury can move to the 2, where he'd probably do very well considering his desire to shoot first, and then you put Williams or Jack, or Felton at the one.
So even if Marbury and Crawford stay healthy, there's a good rotation of 3 quality gaurds, with a Deron Williams getting at least 12 minutes a game. And thats just if Marbury's and Crawfords minutes remain the same. 12 minutes aint bad for a rookie pg, and it could easily go up with injuries or success. Jameer Nelson was getting some useful minutes with the Magic even before the Mobley trade, and he especially is now. Its always good to have depth, no matter how good your starter is.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Yes it is a dumb move, I'm glad you realized. Do you understand that there is something called an offseason??? I don't think you understand the concept of that. The Knicks can trade players away! </div>

You're going to trade away a 32 year old Kurt Thomas who's makes 8 million till he's 36? Or no wait, you'll trade away Maurice Taylor and his 9million dollar contract with several years left? Umm....how bout Rose..he's reasonably priced, but probaby the one you least want to trade since he's going to be you're 6'7 center along with Jerome Williams, who also makes silly money. Either that or Bruno Sundov! Who's going to want these guys for free much less for something in return? I know i know, there will be some interested people around the trade deadline, but you cant count on it, and thats still half the year with williams, thomas, rose, sweetney, taylor and splitter, all undersized in one way or another for the 4 spot, and all having to split time at the vacant 5 spot.

Ya trade those players away, you're right, of course your right. It should be easy to get rid of those guys, just do what everyother team in the league does, trade them to the Knicks.


wait...nevermind.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Many players are skinny and get through. Marcus Camby is a good example. He's 6'11 225 (that's lighter than Splitter) and he manages to do very well. Chris Bosh is a toothpick and he gets by. Again, I don't know if you can comprehend this, but I'll do my best. Basketball is played for more than one year meaning Splitter has a lot of time to put on weight and become stronger especially considering his strong work ethic.</div>





Marcus Camby got abused when he was young, pounded in the paint by the big guys. And he's more muscular than Splitter is and used his weight better. Bosh was a liability at the 5. He was talented offensivly and worked hard on defence but he got scored on alot of times just because of size. Not to mention how hard it is on a young player to have to play out of position and get beat up everynight. Rookies have a hard enough time adapting to the NBA game without being thown to the wolves out of position. Splitter isnt built for the 5 spot mentally or physically. Just wait and see how right i am.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
There is an offseason, JYD and Rose can play center. I never said full time, I said they can play center to show you how versatile they are. You said 5 PF's as if there would be a serious log jam due to it, however the versatility of our 4's allow us to do more. What's stupid is you thinking the Knicks are stuck like this forever when other things can be done. JYD is not undersized at the 4, and despite Rose being undersized, he is effective. He played a majority of his basketball in the western conference and played against Tim Duncan all the time! He has experience, and can handle the east especially with few dominating big men.</div>

JYD and Rose cant play center vs any team of importance. They'll be dominated. Oh sure they could manage it vs teams like the Raps but the Pistons, Heat, Wiz, any team with even a half-good big man will be able to use size do dominate them defensively, offensively and on the boards. There is a log jam at the 4. I dont care IF JYD can play the 3...hell i can play the 3 but not has good has would be desired. JYD can stick with slower 3's on the defensive end, but his perimeter defense on them might be in question vs the quicker 3's in the league. Besides even if there isnt a log jam, which is nuts seeing has Taylor gets no minutes, adding another one that would have to play out of position would be pointless. Which is exaclty what you want to do.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
And you're talking to me about logic??? Please, don't make me laugh. Sorry you already did! Bonner is decent, and Pape has potnetial. A lot of players have potential! Sundov has potential I guess we can make him our starting center too! Jackie Butler has potential as well and plus he has Mark Aguirre one of the best post up greats working with him.</div>

You have no point really. You're saying that the Knicks have has much depth at the point has the Raps do at the 4? We've got 1 great PF in Bosh, a very good rookie in Bonner, and a potential player in Pape Sow. Sure if Bosh went down it would hurt, and Bonner is a step down for sure, but at least we'd have a backup to take his starting spot without pulling a player of of position to cover it, then leaving THAT position with only 1 player. Like i said, if Bosh went down there are 3 players (bonner, a.will, sow) that play the PF full time. Then on top of that we have 2 players that can play it vs small ball teams.
So you see....your logic does suck.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
No, Bonner doesn't play with the same style as Donyell! His defense is at no way shape or form close to being as good as Kurt Thomas or even Marshall for that matter. He isn't that great of a rebounder. At best I'd say decent. Please, don't compare Bonner to Kurt Thomas because what Kurt does is at another level than Bonner. I think a better comparison to make is him being like Brian Scalabrine! Suzy? Sounds like a typical 02civic weak attempt to show humor. Why is it that you always seem to make up names of girls and call them to people? Do you wish you had one?</div>

Um...yes he does. Both of thier entire offensive game is hitting the open jump shot or three pointer. They both hustle, with Bonner being a bit more JYD'ish with the diving and intangables. Marshalls the better player no question, but Bonner isnt a huge step down. His rebounding is probably average for a powerforward, and Marshalls is probably above average by a bit. Neither are terrific rebounders. I cant compare him to Kurt Thomas? Why not, they both play the same hard nosed style defensively, and they're both jump shooters offensively. Thomas is obviously the better defender but i'm not saying he's has good...all i'm saying is Bonner plays a similiar style to Donyell and to Kurt Thomas, though closer to Donyell since he's got range that Thomas doesnt. And about calling you Suzy, i think it fits. Sorry you dont find it funny, from now on i'll quote things you've said for laughs.

In the Thread: "LBJ youngest player to 2,000 points"
mrj18- "Congratulations to James but, I think that he wouldn't have been the youngest to do it if he weren't 19. If he were like 22 the record would have been safe."

NOW THATS...FUNNY!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Crawford is a PG and he likes to pass. He isn't playing PG this year though! Moving over to the SG these past two years he isn't handling the ball enough to pass although he is managing to average 4.3 assists when he does get the rock. No he's not and when he is playing the role as PG the Knicks play more efficiently. I wouldn't expect you to know this because you barely watch their games. He plays in an uncontrolled manor sometimes because at a modest 6'5 and small 190 pounds, sometimes that is what he can do. When he does play PG though, the offense is run more smoothly.</div>

Regardless of your opinion the knock on him is he is selfish. Your opinion on how they play is appreciated but i think the team would play better with a true pass first point guard, something Marbury and Crawford are NOT. I know you folks like continuely saying "you never watch knicks games" whenever i question your views and statements, but i keep telling you that i do watch them. You do know that with league pass and the like people outside of NY can still watch the games right? You have no idea how much i watch and you guys just like using that to try and make like you know more cause you watch more. You should right it on your hand, I DO WATCH KNICKS GAMES. I'm probably at about 50% right now. Dont forget son.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Kevin Garnett also had some good teams and made it out the first round once. Chauncey Billups was a dominant offensive player and the Pistons got a championship.</div>

Again, your missing the point man! I said dominant point gaurd! Is KG a point gaurd? Is billups a marbury type player? Billups is and was not a "dominant offensive player". He played well and had some good shooting games, but it was a team effort from Detroit. Dont compare Marbury to Billups performance in the finals ever again.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
How do you know what the trades, signings and the players that wil step up their games? Exactly, you don't and you're whole argument here is based on assumptions.</div>

you're right, its an assumption. Actually its more playing the probabilities...since thats all scouts and GM's can do. No one has the crystal ball that you must have. Trades...ya anything can happen, but last i checked the Knicks didnt have a ton to offer. Most the players are way overpaid and everyother team actually likes to spend money wisely. NY has 2 youngens but i doubt they'd look to trade them, and they shouldnt. They have expiring contracts but you're not going to get anyone young for them..thats sort of the opposite you'll get. You'll get overpaid underperforming or injury prone players that are either out of their prime or have issues. Signings....NY can pick up some fillers and the cream of the 10 day contract crop...but with the contracts they've got (40 million in PF's) they dont have any big money to through around.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think a more likely scenario is Chris Taft.</div>


I think Taft is a good option for the Knicks. Playing at home in a franchise with the history of the Knicks as well has having Isiah's full support could get this guy to bring his A-game everynight. I like his size and his skills when he tries. And i think he's a much shorter wait then Splitter or even Petro.
If i was Isiah i'd be looking at 4 people and 4 people only. (realistically speaking)
Felton, Deron Williams, Gerald Green, and Taft.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">You are a very 1 dimensional thinker. Who says a player like Felton or Deron Williams or a Jarret Jack would play 10 minutes? You've got Marbury and Crawford starting and no one better than decent to come in for them when they're r tired or injured. Marbury plays the 6th most minutes in the NBA and could benefit from playing a minute or two less per game. Crawford plays 37 minutes, and thats probably a good number for him.
So why not start Marbury and Crawford. A player like Deron Williams could come in for Marbury to get him 5minutes of PT, and when Crawfords out for his 7-8 minutes a game, rather than put some scrub 10 day contract guy in or being forced to relly solely on Penny "Injury" Hardaway, Marbury can move to the 2, where he'd probably do very well considering his desire to shoot first, and then you put Williams or Jack, or Felton at the one.
So even if Marbury and Crawford stay healthy, there's a good rotation of 3 quality gaurds, with a Deron Williams getting at least 12 minutes a game. And thats just if Marbury's and Crawfords minutes remain the same. 12 minutes aint bad for a rookie pg, and it could easily go up with injuries or success. Jameer Nelson was getting some useful minutes with the Magic even before the Mobley trade, and he especially is now. Its always good to have depth, no matter how good your starter is.</div>
When you are backing up a franchise player you won?t get many minutes. No one better than decent? You see, by that I can tell you don?t follow nor watch many Knick games. Jermaine Jackson is not on a 10 day contract and he is not a scrub. When he backs up Marbury or whoever it is, he plays well and does things that don?t show up in the boxscore like playing good defense etc. But then again, I wouldn?t expect you to know that because you barely watch Knick games. It doesn?t exactly work like that. Now, you?re making assumptions on their minutes? What if their minutes increase? You didn?t mention that. It even says in the Post ?Illinois guard Deron Williams could be a high lottery choice, but the Knicks don't want a point guard.? If the Knicks were to draft a PG, they should do it with our Suns 1st round pick or our Rockets pick. That?s it.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're going to trade away a 32 year old Kurt Thomas who's makes 8 million till he's 36? Or no wait, you'll trade away Maurice Taylor and his 9million dollar contract with several years left? Umm....how bout Rose..he's reasonably priced, but probaby the one you least want to trade since he's going to be you're 6'7 center along with Jerome Williams, who also makes silly money. Either that or Bruno Sundov! Who's going to want these guys for free much less for something in return? I know i know, there will be some interested people around the trade deadline, but you cant count on it, and thats still half the year with williams, thomas, rose, sweetney, taylor and splitter, all undersized in one way or another for the 4 spot, and all having to split time at the vacant 5 spot.

Ya trade those players away, you're right, of course your right. It should be easy to get rid of those guys, just do what everyother team in the league does, trade them to the Knicks.


wait...nevermind. </div>
No one will be interested? Sounds funny since the Cavaliers were about to trade Drew Gooden to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas. Also Wally Szczerbiak and Kurt Thomas had some rumors. Basically there were many trade offers about Kurt Thomas howeverm the Knicks didn?t feel comfortable trading him because of the liabilities he would present the Knicks. Now, 02civic is a fortune teller and can tell that no team will be interested? Kurt Thomas is one of the few players in the league averaging a double double, and he plays excellent low post defense, averages a block and a steal a game along with his more than solid midrange game. His intangibles is what makes him even better! Rose is likely staying when his contract expires along with Houston?s creating valuable trade assets and possible cap space. You mention them being undersized, but yet again you don?t state how effective they are. Rose can compete especially in the east. His height didn?t seem to be a problem in the west.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marcus Camby got abused when he was young, pounded in the paint by the big guys. And he's more muscular than Splitter is and used his weight better. Bosh was a liability at the 5. He was talented offensivly and worked hard on defence but he got scored on alot of times just because of size. Not to mention how hard it is on a young player to have to play out of position and get beat up everynight. Rookies have a hard enough time adapting to the NBA game without being thown to the wolves out of position. Splitter isnt built for the 5 spot mentally or physically. Just wait and see how right i am.</div>
You said he got abused when he was younger, but what about now? You see, basketball teams last more than a year. I know Bosh got murdered at the 5, I don?t need you to tell me that, but Bosh was much more of a toothpick than Splitter. Nenad Krstic is just about the same frame and everything as Splitter. What about him, he plays center. Kevin Garnett is skinny and he is more than capable of playing center. Splitter can put on some weight as the years go by and he?ll be good. There are many centers who come into the league needing weight. What about them, how did they survive?




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">JYD and Rose cant play center vs any team of importance. They'll be dominated. Oh sure they could manage it vs teams like the Raps but the Pistons, Heat, Wiz, any team with even a half-good big man will be able to use size do dominate them defensively, offensively and on the boards. There is a log jam at the 4. I dont care IF JYD can play the 3...hell i can play the 3 but not has good has would be desired. JYD can stick with slower 3's on the defensive end, but his perimeter defense on them might be in question vs the quicker 3's in the league. Besides even if there isnt a log jam, which is nuts seeing has Taylor gets no minutes, adding another one that would have to play out of position would be pointless. Which is exaclty what you want to do.</div>
Bringing Shaq into the argument is pointless because no team can defend Shaq. Rose can played out west and gave opponents tough times. He?s very smart and knows what he?s doing. He is explosive and can give centers hard times. JYD is the same way. He can also play the 3 too and well. The way you play is what matters, not how it looks on paper. And again, you?re making assumptions the Knicks will not make any moves in the offseason which is absurd. How the hell do you know what?s going to happen?



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You have no point really. You're saying that the Knicks have has much depth at the point has the Raps do at the 4? We've got 1 great PF in Bosh, a very good rookie in Bonner, and a potential player in Pape Sow. Sure if Bosh went down it would hurt, and Bonner is a step down for sure, but at least we'd have a backup to take his starting spot without pulling a player of of position to cover it, then leaving THAT position with only 1 player. Like i said, if Bosh went down there are 3 players (bonner, a.will, sow) that play the PF full time. Then on top of that we have 2 players that can play it vs small ball teams.
So you see....your logic does suck.</div>

Bonner isn?t the ideal PF to quote you, so I guess he is somewhat the equivalent of Crawford. And please, don?t bring this unproven rookie up. How about this one?Bruno Sundov plays more minutes and games is more experienced than Pape, and on top of that puts up better numbers and has much more range than Pape! And you have the audacity to criticize my logic? And oh yeah, the guy who plays 18 games for you giving you a stiffling 1.8 and 1.4 in his appearances. I?m not sure about the other guys, but Marshall is likely to act like everyone else and want out of Toronto, so why not prepare for that?


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Um...yes he does. Both of thier entire offensive game is hitting the open jump shot or three pointer. They both hustle, with Bonner being a bit more JYD'ish with the diving and intangables. Marshalls the better player no question, but Bonner isnt a huge step down. His rebounding is probably average for a powerforward, and Marshalls is probably above average by a bit. Neither are terrific rebounders. I cant compare him to Kurt Thomas? Why not, they both play the same hard nosed style defensively, and they're both jump shooters offensively. Thomas is obviously the better defender but i'm not saying he's has good...all i'm saying is Bonner plays a similiar style to Donyell and to Kurt Thomas, though closer to Donyell since he's got range that Thomas doesnt. And about calling you Suzy, i think it fits. Sorry you dont find it funny, from now on i'll quote things you've said for laughs.

In the Thread: "LBJ youngest player to 2,000 points"
mrj18- "Congratulations to James but, I think that he wouldn't have been the youngest to do it if he weren't 19. If he were like 22 the record would have been safe."

NOW THATS...FUNNY!</div>
In that case, Bonner must be much less than a super starving about die man?s Donyell Marshall or Kurt Thomas.

Oh I remember that quote, you got that one about 4 months ago before I clarified myself Since you like bringing up old quotes, this one is my personal favorite:
?Marshall averages more over his career.? 02civc comparing Kurt Thomas? 7.3 rebounds a game to
?Kurt is not a good rebounder for a PF, thats a well known fact.?
I guess the 7th best rebounder in the NBA this season isn?t good.

NOW THAT?S FUNNY!!!




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Regardless of your opinion the knock on him is he is selfish. Your opinion on how they play is appreciated but i think the team would play better with a true pass first point guard, something Marbury and Crawford are NOT. I know you folks like continuely saying "you never watch knicks games" whenever i question your views and statements, but i keep telling you that i do watch them. You do know that with league pass and the like people outside of NY can still watch the games right? You have no idea how much i watch and you guys just like using that to try and make like you know more cause you watch more. You should right it on your hand, I DO WATCH KNICKS GAMES. I'm probably at about 50% right now. Dont forget son.</div>
Most of the people who give him the knock don?t know his role as a SG. Many people criticize him for his shot selection and call him selfish when it?s hard when you have a 6?7, 210 pound SG on you. Sometimes the ill-advised shots will come. When Marbury was a PG, the team runs smoother and he plays better. The way you speak, gives us no choice but to question whether you watch them or not. I thought you don?t like the Knicks. Why would you order league pass to see them?



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, your missing the point man! I said dominant point gaurd! Is KG a point gaurd? Is billups a marbury type player? Billups is and was not a "dominant offensive player". He played well and had some good shooting games, but it was a team effort from Detroit. Dont compare Marbury to Billups performance in the finals ever again.</div>
Billups isn?t dominant on the offensive end? The point is Marbury can take the Knicks farther than where they want to be right now.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">you're right, its an assumption. Actually its more playing the probabilities...since thats all scouts and GM's can do. No one has the crystal ball that you must have. Trades...ya anything can happen, but last i checked the Knicks didnt have a ton to offer. Most the players are way overpaid and everyother team actually likes to spend money wisely. NY has 2 youngens but i doubt they'd look to trade them, and they shouldnt. They have expiring contracts but you're not going to get anyone young for them..thats sort of the opposite you'll get. You'll get overpaid underperforming or injury prone players that are either out of their prime or have issues. Signings....NY can pick up some fillers and the cream of the 10 day contract crop...but with the contracts they've got (40 million in PF's) they dont have any big money to through around.</div>
The Knicks have some good expiring contracts to use and automatically you?re already assuming the outcome. Last time the Pistons got Rasheed Wallace with their expiring contracts, the Warriors got Baron Davis with their?s. Sure Davis was injury prone, but many players were. Vince Carter was and he did fairly well. They have 30 million coming off this year, 30 million next year and a lot the year after! Those are very nice assests to trade for. NY is considered the cream of the crop and some FA?s consider coming here for the MLE and playing in the greatest city in the world.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Taft is a good option for the Knicks. Playing at home in a franchise with the history of the Knicks as well has having Isiah's full support could get this guy to bring his A-game everynight. I like his size and his skills when he tries. And i think he's a much shorter wait then Splitter or even Petro.
If i was Isiah i'd be looking at 4 people and 4 people only. (realistically speaking)
Felton, Deron Williams, Gerald Green, and Taft.</div>
How logical is this? Weren?t you the one knocking the idea of another PF and yet he want to bring in Taft who is a PF??? He has some good skills when he applies himself but he is a huge risk.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">I still don't get it. David Harrison,last year,was a late #1,though he had respectable numbers at Colorado. Even Diop played his HS ball at Oak Hills,then the #1 hs team in the nation. There is very little info on Petro except that his stats are very uninspiring. The vague,anonymous scouting reports rave that he is a tremendous talent-despite his few achievements-then note he is totally raw,has few actual skills and a pretty laid back approach with poor work habits. Now,if we are talking late round 2,or call us and we can have an audition,okay,but lottery? Be my guest,its not like I'm a Knicks fan,but it's only fair to warn you.

-and last I looked the Knicks had a lot of seriously burdensome contracts that will be VERY hard to dump,and unless they dump some,they won't be signing anyone of significance.</div>
Scouts judge on potential, not solely on stats. Players overseas tend not to get many minutes to prove themselves. He has potential, that;s the most important thing that they look at. I've been having doubts on Petro too as of late, I'm not completely sold on him.

Last I looked, the Knicks have some very intriguing 30 million dollars of expiing contracts to use in a trade. Maybe even a sign and trade, who knows? Houston's contract is coming off the books soon as well.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">When you are backing up a franchise player you wont get many minutes. No one better than decent? You see, by that I can tell you dont follow nor watch many Knick games. Jermaine Jackson is not on a 10 day contract and he is not a scrub. When he backs up Marbury or whoever it is, he plays well and does things that dont show up in the boxscore like playing good defense etc. But then again, I wouldnt expect you to know that because you barely watch Knick games. It doesnt exactly work like that. Now, youre making assumptions on their minutes? What if their minutes increase? You didnt mention that. It even says in the Post Illinois guard Deron Williams could be a high lottery choice, but the Knicks don't want a point guard. If the Knicks were to draft a PG, they should do it with our Suns 1st round pick or our Rockets pick. Thats it.</div>

Jermaine Jackson is what he is. I still see more sense in picking up a decent player who can eventually take the reigns at the point while providing a good option for a backcourt with no real backups, rather than picking up another PF.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
No one will be interested? Sounds funny since the Cavaliers were about to trade Drew Gooden to the Knicks for Kurt Thomas. Also Wally Szczerbiak and Kurt Thomas had some rumors. Basically there were many trade offers about Kurt Thomas howeverm the Knicks didnt feel comfortable trading him because of the liabilities he would present the Knicks. Now, 02civic is a fortune teller and can tell that no team will be interested? Kurt Thomas is one of the few players in the league averaging a double double, and he plays excellent low post defense, averages a block and a steal a game along with his more than solid midrange game. His intangibles is what makes him even better! Rose is likely staying when his contract expires along with Houstons creating valuable trade assets and possible cap space. You mention them being undersized, but yet again you dont state how effective they are. Rose can compete especially in the east. His height didnt seem to be a problem in the west.</div>

You read to much NY media crap, so i'm not surpised you think the way you do. You heard rumours. And even if there were talks, that was this year not last and all the Knicks PF's are now a year older. Regardless of if there were talks, nothing was done. close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
You said he got abused when he was younger, but what about now? You see, basketball teams last more than a year. I know Bosh got murdered at the 5, I dont need you to tell me that, but Bosh was much more of a toothpick than Splitter. Nenad Krstic is just about the same frame and everything as Splitter. What about him, he plays center. Kevin Garnett is skinny and he is more than capable of playing center. Splitter can put on some weight as the years go by and hell be good. There are many centers who come into the league needing weight. What about them, how did they survive?</div>

Splitter is about the same build has Bosh. Kristic is bigger than Splitter. Garnett's a hell of a lot more muscular. Ya Camby got better, and Splitter could to....my entire point was do the Knicks really want 6 powerforwards or even 5 if they were to trade Thomas, while waiting 2-3 years for him to develop into the 5 spot.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Bringing Shaq into the argument is pointless because no team can defend Shaq. Rose can played out west and gave opponents tough times. Hes very smart and knows what hes doing. He is explosive and can give centers hard times. JYD is the same way. He can also play the 3 too and well. The way you play is what matters, not how it looks on paper. And again, youre making assumptions the Knicks will not make any moves in the offseason which is absurd. How the hell do you know whats going to happen?</div>

I'm not talking about just Shaq. Dalembert, Haywood, Curry, ect would dominate vs JYD and rose in the post. I dont know whats going to happen, but its reasonable to assume that they might have difficulty trading away those expensive aging undersized players.



<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">

Bonner isnt the ideal PF to quote you, so I guess he is somewhat the equivalent of Crawford. And please, dont bring this unproven rookie up. How about this oneBruno Sundov plays more minutes and games is more experienced than Pape, and on top of that puts up better numbers and has much more range than Pape! And you have the audacity to criticize my logic? And oh yeah, the guy who plays 18 games for you giving you a stiffling 1.8 and 1.4 in his appearances. Im not sure about the other guys, but Marshall is likely to act like everyone else and want out of Toronto, so why not prepare for that?

In that case, Bonner must be much less than a super starving about die mans Donyell Marshall or Kurt Thomas. </div>


No Bonner is not equivalent to Crawford. Bonner is what he is. He's not a star but he'll never be called out for not working hard at all times or for being selfish. Sure Bruno plays more minutes and games....he's got less competition at his position too. He's also been in the league a few years and he's older. Pape has more potential then Sundov i think, and i'm not saying hes going to be great, but i'm just talking about 1 of the Raps many options at the 4 without raping the regular rotation. Marshall probably will go, but thats not a big deal. Bonner plays the same way and he could develop into has good a player in time. Either way he's still pretty good and a very acceptable backup. Bonner is not a "super starving about to die man's Yell or Kurt", he's a quality young talent that works hard and has skills. He's a step down from them currently but not a HUGE step down like you make it seem. He's got time too...he's a rookie for crying out loud.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Oh I remember that quote, you got that one about 4 months ago before I clarified myself Since you like bringing up old quotes, this one is my personal favorite:
Marshall averages more over his career. 02civc comparing Kurt Thomas 7.3 rebounds a game to
Kurt is not a good rebounder for a PF, thats a well known fact.
I guess the 7th best rebounder in the NBA this season isnt good.

NOW THATS FUNNY!!!
</div>

Ya you clarified youtself and it still didnt make sense...you said that the only reason he got it was because he came in young...which is ridiculous because thats obvious to everyone. Alot of players come in young, and younger than him. Its just saying that he's the youngest to 2,000 ever. Your clarification still had no point.
And on the Kurt issue you said that Kurt was a much better rebounder than yell despite averaging more boards over his career in about equal minutes. I said Thomas wasnt a very good rebounder because in his career he's had many low rebounding seasons where he's got upper 6's to 8.0 in 30 minutes a game. Its not great...not bad...probably not has bad has i made it seem. But you talk like this seasons stats are the only stats that matter. He's had good numbers this year. And in a few years past he had some good numbers for the minutes. But since Ewing left he really hasnt had much competition in the post. Nazr isnt a solid rebounder, neither was Doleac. That comes into play some.




<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
How logical is this? Werent you the one knocking the idea of another PF and yet he want to bring in Taft who is a PF??? He has some good skills when he applies himself but he is a huge risk.</div>


Taft is more able to play the center spot than Splitter is currently. he's also more proven, even with the problems that he's had. He's got the better body and he's a bit more polished than Taft or Petro who are stil very raw. Taft needs work, just less then those guys. The only thing holding Taft back is his attitude which can be fixed. Also Petro has been said to have a bad attitude and an unwillingness to work hard. Taft is 260, Splitter is 235...who's a more likely center? Personally i think Gerald Green would be the best choice for the Knicks, with Deron second best. Felton third, Taft would be fourth, with Petro 5th. Just my opinion.

We should just leave it at that, since this isnt the point of the thread.




So just leave it. We'll see what happens.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Smoove:</div><div class="quote_post">NBAdraft.net's mock drafts have NOTHING to do with team needs. No big mockdraft sites (NBAdraft.net, draftcity.com, hoopshype) rarely go with team needs until AFTER season ends. Good job..</div>

Agree. In their latest mock they have Raymond Felton going to the Clippers, who drafted their franchise point guard last year in Shaun Livingston. They have another pick where they are off in my opinion again and that is the Nets picking Rashad Mccants. Why the Nets need Rashad Mccants I don't know he is a swingman just like Carter, he isn't becoming a free agent anytime soon, and he is playing great for the Nets.

I also think NBAdraft.net is overrating Chris Taft at this point. To me Taft looks like he lacks the motivation to work and become a better player. His stock at this point is only based on his potential.

NBAdraft.net also has Warrick falling to 20 in their latest mock which I think is 100% wrong. Warrick in most peoples' minds is regarded as a top ten pick, maybe a late lottery pick at the least. Twenty is too low for a guy that is athletic, long, a very good shot blocker, and he can run up and down the floor. His has superior athletic ability and shot blocking ability in my mind gets him in the lottery. I would pick Warrick over Chris Taft at this point unless Taft can show me he is motivated to work and become a better player.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">Jermaine Jackson is what he is. I still see more sense in picking up a decent player who can eventually take the reigns at the point while providing a good option for a backcourt with no real backups, rather than picking up another PF.</div>
He is a decent player, and he gives us a nice defensive presence off the bench. Right now Marbury is the franchise player and anyone backing up a franchise player is likely not to get many minutes especially if he has someone like Crawford around who plays the PG very well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You read to much NY media crap, so i'm not surpised you think the way you do. You heard rumours. And even if there were talks, that was this year not last and all the Knicks PF's are now a year older. Regardless of if there were talks, nothing was done. close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.</div>
I?m sure the NY media crap has better sources than you, and it is the only thing that makes sense. Why will the Knicks draft on their least weak position, especially since Marbury plays behind them? The reason why nothing was done was because Isiah never pulled the trigger. He could have, however Kurt provides so much for the Knicks, that suddenly giving him up will not be the best decision.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Splitter is about the same build has Bosh. Kristic is bigger than Splitter. Garnett's a hell of a lot more muscular. Ya Camby got better, and Splitter could to....my entire point was do the Knicks really want 6 powerforwards or even 5 if they were to trade Thomas, while waiting 2-3 years for him to develop into the 5 spot.</div>
Splitter is not done growing and 6?11-7?0 isn?t a great difference at all. Also, Splitter has gotten stronger from the last time people have seen him. He can also put on some pounds in the offseason and even next year. And if the Knicks put Splitter at the 5 on offense and at the 4 on defense, what will be the problem?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not talking about just Shaq. Dalembert, Haywood, Curry, ect would dominate vs JYD and rose in the post. I dont know whats going to happen, but its reasonable to assume that they might have difficulty trading away those expensive aging undersized players.</div>
Dalembert?s game isn?t too great offensively so I don?t know how he would really dominate against us. Rose has been playing against Duncan on a regular basis for 8 years. I think we can agree Duncan is a much better player than both of them. Now, if Rose has experience playing against elite PF?s and other centers in the west, to get dominated like you suggest. Rose can play center and he has when Kurt Thomas was out. But you?re making it sound as if there is no chance of it happening. Many teams covet Kurt Thomas especially because of his double-double along with his great defense.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No Bonner is not equivalent to Crawford. Bonner is what he is. He's not a star but he'll never be called out for not working hard at all times or for being selfish. Sure Bruno plays more minutes and games....he's got less competition at his position too. He's also been in the league a few years and he's older. Pape has more potential then Sundov i think, and i'm not saying hes going to be great, but i'm just talking about 1 of the Raps many options at the 4 without raping the regular rotation. Marshall probably will go, but thats not a big deal. Bonner plays the same way and he could develop into has good a player in time. Either way he's still pretty good and a very acceptable backup. Bonner is not a "super starving about to die man's Yell or Kurt", he's a quality young talent that works hard and has skills. He's a step down from them currently but not a HUGE step down like you make it seem. He's got time too...he's a rookie for crying out loud.</div>
Why not? You said Crawford?s style doesn?t fit the ?ideal? PG position. I don?t think a PF taking open jumpshots he gets spoon-fed qualifies that. I know you?re going to bring up Kurt Thomas, but Kurt also is a much better rebounder and has/had a much better rebounding rate than Bonner. His defense is/was much better than him. His intangibles are better than Bonner?s intangibles. Every aspect of his game is/was better. Maybe except his shooting. If Bonner can shoot, rebound like that then hell, why don?t you compare him to Dirk Nowitzki. That?s it. Sure he?s a rookie but he?s 25 years old and likely not to get any better than he is right now. If you?re going to bring up Pape than in all fairness, I should bring up Jackie Butler who happens to be playing with Mark Aguirre. He has been looking impressive. Sundov is just as old as Bonner. He is 7 feet and can shoot the 3. Pape Sow is only a year younger than Sundov, and Sundov has much more experience. Bonner is a huge step down from Kurt Thomas and Marshall and at age 25, he is likely not to get much better than he is now.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ya you clarified youtself and it still didnt make sense...you said that the only reason he got it was because he came in young...which is ridiculous because thats obvious to everyone. Alot of players come in young, and younger than him. Its just saying that he's the youngest to 2,000 ever. Your clarification still had no point.
And on the Kurt issue you said that Kurt was a much better rebounder than yell despite averaging more boards over his career in about equal minutes. I said Thomas wasnt a very good rebounder because in his career he's had many low rebounding seasons where he's got upper 6's to 8.0 in 30 minutes a game. Its not great...not bad...probably not has bad has i made it seem. But you talk like this seasons stats are the only stats that matter. He's had good numbers this year. And in a few years past he had some good numbers for the minutes. But since Ewing left he really hasnt had much competition in the post. Nazr isnt a solid rebounder, neither was Doleac. That comes into play some.</div>
I said if someone that came in young had the same opportunities as him like getting 40 minutes a game etc. the record would have been safe. Let me ask you this: Do you think Marshall is a good rebounder?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Taft is more able to play the center spot than Splitter is currently. he's also more proven, even with the problems that he's had. He's got the better body and he's a bit more polished than Taft or Petro who are stil very raw. Taft needs work, just less then those guys. The only thing holding Taft back is his attitude which can be fixed. Also Petro has been said to have a bad attitude and an unwillingness to work hard. Taft is 260, Splitter is 235...who's a more likely center? Personally i think Gerald Green would be the best choice for the Knicks, with Deron second best. Felton third, Taft would be fourth, with Petro 5th. Just my opinion.

We should just leave it at that, since this isnt the point of the thread.




So just leave it. We'll see what happens.</div>
But Taft is a PF That doesn?t make much sense. I don?t understand this:
?he's also more proven, even with the problems that he's had. He's got the better body and he's a bit more polished than Taft or Petro who are stil very raw.?
^What are you talking about? How can Taft be more polished than himself? And you are talking about me not making sense

NOW THAT?S FUNNY!!

His attitude is a big problem. How do we know he?ll change his attitude? He has all the tools to dominate, he just never does. Sounds like yet another underachiever on the Knicks. He has barely improved since he was a freshman and many people are labeling him a bust. I would take a chance on him if I had another lottery pick, but not my first one. I wouldn?t mind taking Green either.

Why don?t we leave it here and see what happens.

 

The McDonalds AA game was just a few days ago. It seems some HS prospects may now give serious thought to entering,and some thought to be NBA bound may be thinking a year of college would be wise. NBA Draft.net seems to think the most optimistic outlook for every Euro-teen will pan out. Round 2 they start off with a F who is listed as 6-7 175 lb. It's not like he's scoring 25 a game either. 6-7 175 is anorexic. A point G who is 6-2 175 would be seen as not strong enough and knocked down a few slots. Meanwhile US college players like J Hodge and Larry Roberts are later #2's??? Yeah,right. I've seen Hodge and Roberts,either could play some NBA minutes tommorrow. Does anyone really have ANY real reason to think some of these imports could even start on a good college team? It seems like a shell game with the farm boys betting a pea is under one of the nut shells. No doubt one or two of these projects will emerge as a pretty good player. What are the odds? How may will be no better than some tall but low-skill college player who nobody even lists as a rd 2? How many teams will be saying in 2 years,we could have had Warrick or Frye?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Why not? You said Crawford?s style doesn?t fit the ?ideal? PG position. I don?t think a PF taking open jumpshots he gets spoon-fed qualifies that. I know you?re going to bring up Kurt Thomas, but Kurt also is a much better rebounder and has/had a much better rebounding rate than Bonner. His defense is/was much better than him. His intangibles are better than Bonner?s intangibles. Every aspect of his game is/was better. Maybe except his shooting. If Bonner can shoot, rebound like that then hell, why don?t you compare him to Dirk Nowitzki. That?s it. Sure he?s a rookie but he?s 25 years old and likely not to get any better than he is right now. If you?re going to bring up Pape than in all fairness, I should bring up Jackie Butler who happens to be playing with Mark Aguirre. He has been looking impressive. Sundov is just as old as Bonner. He is 7 feet and can shoot the 3. Pape Sow is only a year younger than Sundov, and Sundov has much more experience. Bonner is a huge step down from Kurt Thomas and Marshall and at age 25, he is likely not to get much better than he is now.</div>

A PERFECT example at your lack of reason. Crawford is older than Bonner. But you continually talk about how he's still young and improving, when actually his stats say he's not. Typical.
Bonner is not a huge step down overall in my opinion. Once he gets a few more years of NBA expierence into him he'll be better at reading the boards and that should help out his cause. He's already a better shot, and he hustles even more than Thomas does, but he needs to improve on the boards and on the block both offensively and defensivly. Still he's not a bad player at all.



<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
I said if someone that came in young had the same opportunities as him like getting 40 minutes a game etc. the record would have been safe. </div>


Thats the whole point! Of course its because he's gotten the most minutes. And he's gotten the most minutes because he's close to if not the best anyone has been at his age(within the past 10-15 years). Thats why he was the first to 2000 because he's good enough to get the minutes and good enough to get the points in those minutes.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me ask you this: Do you think Marshall is a good rebounder? </div>
Marshall is an adept rebounder, not the best in the league but not the worst. He'd be better if his entire offensive game didnt take place near the 3 point line.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
But Taft is a PF That doesn?t make much sense. I don?t understand this:
?he's also more proven, even with the problems that he's had. He's got the better body and he's a bit more polished than Taft or Petro who are stil very raw.?
^What are you talking about? How can Taft be more polished than himself? And you are talking about me not making sense

NOW THAT?S FUNNY!!
</div>

Taft is a PF/C. He's more able to play the 5 than Splitter is so dont try to split hairs with me on this.
And its a pretty sad state when you have to pick at typo's. Obviously i meant "....more polished than Splitter or Petro..." since i was talking about Taft the whole time. Very grown up. Anyways its true.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
His attitude is a big problem. How do we know he?ll change his attitude? He has all the tools to dominate, he just never does. Sounds like yet another underachiever on the Knicks. He has barely improved since he was a freshman and many people are labeling him a bust. I would take a chance on him if I had another lottery pick, but not my first one. I wouldn?t mind taking Green either.

Why don?t we leave it here and see what happens.</div>

His attitude is a big problem, but that was the feelings towards Crawford too. And thats the feelings about Petro. I'm just saying that skill and body size has him being more ready then splitter or Petro.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">A PERFECT example at your lack of reason. Crawford is older than Bonner. But you continually talk about how he's still young and improving, when actually his stats say he's not. Typical.
Bonner is not a huge step down overall in my opinion. Once he gets a few more years of NBA expierence into him he'll be better at reading the boards and that should help out his cause. He's already a better shot, and he hustles even more than Thomas does, but he needs to improve on the boards and on the block both offensively and defensivly. Still he's not a bad player at all.</div>
Crawford is only older than him by a month! What makes Crawford?s skills better is his talent. I don?t think that there?s any question Crawford is more talented than Bonner (at least there shouldn?t be.) Crawford is also a guard and guards develop much faster than big men. Also he is a rookie at age 25! There?s a big difference. It shows your lack of reasoning.
I don?t think he?s a bad player, it?s just Kurt Thomas and Marshall are miles ahead of him and coming into the NBA at age 25 will definitely have some effect on his development. He might hustle a lot more because he?s younger and Thomas isn?t an athletic freak. Does he do the intangibles like setting screens, etc.? He doesn?t block many shots for his height either and it seems as if he?s extremely foul prone. I think a better comparison is Brian Scalabrine.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats the whole point! Of course its because he's gotten the most minutes. And he's gotten the most minutes because he's close to if not the best anyone has been at his age(within the past 10-15 years). Thats why he was the first to 2000 because he's good enough to get the minutes and good enough to get the points in those minutes.</div>
No, because some other 18 year olds were put in different situations than him. He was the 1st option and got 40 minutes, If Kobe and other rookies got that time, I think the record would be safe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marshall is an adept rebounder, not the best in the league but not the worst. He'd be better if his entire offensive game didnt take place near the 3 point line.</div>
So Kurt Thomas isn?t an adept rebounder? You said that he was a bad rebounder, and Marshall is an dept rebounder despite him averaging less over his career. He also had an excellent rebounder in Nazr Mohammed for a long time and he still managed to get about 10 boards a game. This is a perfect example showing your lack of reasoning.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Taft is a PF/C. He's more able to play the 5 than Splitter is so dont try to split hairs with me on this.
And its a pretty sad state when you have to pick at typo's. Obviously i meant "....more polished than Splitter or Petro..." since i was talking about Taft the whole time. Very grown up. Anyways its true.
His attitude is a big problem, but that was the feelings towards Crawford too. And thats the feelings about Petro. I'm just saying that skill and body size has him being more ready then splitter or Petro.</div>
Next time, I suggest you recheck what you write more frequently. Obviously history shows us your lack of reasoning, so how was I supposed to know this was any different? What?s sad is your weak attempt to try and clown me by bringing up a thread 4 months old. That?s pretty sad especially because it turned out like every other one?in failure. Taft physically right now is more able to play the center, but once a hard worker like Splitter puts on some pounds and works with Aguirre, he?ll be much more qualified to fit that position. Taft is known to be lazy and his work ethic is very questionable. Splitter put on a lot of weight last summer and can do that again. Crawford never had an attitude problem in fact, his attitude is very classy. When he got a technical (I believe only one this season) he made sure to apologize to the official, he was at Footlocker for hours signing autographs, even diving for a loose ball, he inadvertently hit someone and before focusing on the court, he made sure to say sorry. Those things were noted by the MSG crew. Even if Crawford was thought to have an attitude back then, it doesn?t matter because the Knicks didn?t draft him. They saw the results and then made a move. Attitude is more important than skill and body. I think Splitter has more skills than Taft, but an attitude is up to the person to change and no one else. Hard workers that lack certain physical attributes can easily be acquired over the years. It?s not like Splitter?s 25, he?s 18 and has ample time to get weight. Like I said, basketball is not played in rookie seasons, it?s played for many, many years.

 

Honestly...You people need to mature. Bringing back old quotes and saying it's funny and crap. Stop with the mocking and just post.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly...You people need to mature. Bringing back old quotes and saying it's funny and crap. Stop with the mocking and just post.</div>
Hey man, I just was posting and he brought that stuff up. And as you can see, I wasn't talking about you about the rebounding thing.

 

This is the last i'll say cause there's not getting through to you....

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Crawford is only older than him by a month! What makes Crawford?s skills better is his talent. I don?t think that there?s any question Crawford is more talented than Bonner (at least there shouldn?t be.) Crawford is also a guard and guards develop much faster than big men. Also he is a rookie at age 25! There?s a big difference. It shows your lack of reasoning.</div>

You are constantly saying that Crawford is and will get better and better at the age of 25. But you say Bonner is maxed out and wont get any better, or at least not much better BECAUSE he is 25. Ok sure.
And its not that gaurds develop faster than big men, its that they develop quicker(sooner, at a younger age) than big men. It takes time for bigs to get comfortable with there bodies since often time's they're still growing coming in to the league. Gaurds have more time to learn how to use their size. So really i dont see your point at all. My point is that if you say Crawford is still, and will continue to improve than i disregard your ridiculous opinion that Bonner at the same age cant improve past where he is.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
I don?t think he?s a bad player, it?s just Kurt Thomas and Marshall are miles ahead of him and coming into the NBA at age 25 will definitely have some effect on his development. He might hustle a lot more because he?s younger and Thomas isn?t an athletic freak. Does he do the intangibles like setting screens, etc.? He doesn?t block many shots for his height either and it seems as if he?s extremely foul prone. I think a better comparison is Brian Scalabrine.</div>

Of course he does the intangables like setting screens?!? Diving for balls, calling the good time out, fighting for the boards, running the lanes...he's like a JYD except for he's a cross between K. Thomas and Donyell on the offensive end. He's not the blocker or defensive player that Thomas is, and he cant rebound has good has either Donyell or Thomas, but he's got some time to learn and he's excused since this is his first NBA season. His fouls seem high for the minutes he plays because he's not expected to play alot of minutes...he knows this, so he uses his fouls wisely. He's not has concerned with being able to play 40 minutes so he's more aggressive. Nothing wrong with that at all. I'm forced to ask how many Raps games you've seen, cause you dont seem to know very much about regular players.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
So Kurt Thomas isn?t an adept rebounder? You said that he was a bad rebounder, and Marshall is an dept rebounder despite him averaging less over his career. He also had an excellent rebounder in Nazr Mohammed for a long time and he still managed to get about 10 boards a game. This is a perfect example showing your lack of reasoning. </div>

Ya i was wrong to say he was a bad rebounder, i can admit that, though my saying it was more to bring reality back to you, since you were constantly talking about Kurt being this otherwordly rebounding machine. Just a case of wording it to strongly caused by totally disagreeing with everything you said. A better way of explaining it is to say Haslem is a great rebounder, Kurt is a good rebounder on a bad rebounding team. Also you folks in the NYK forum have moaned and moaned about haw Nazr wasnt a good rebounder. You used it in the explanation of why the Spurs trade was a good idea....now you're saying he was an excellent rebounder. Talk about flip flopping.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Taft physically right now is more able to play the center, but once a hard worker like Splitter puts on some pounds and works with Aguirre, he?ll be much more qualified to fit that position. </div>

Hey thats fine, i've said the same thing to you. My point was that he's to thin to play it now, so the Knicks will have 6 powerforwards and one Bruno Sundov. Taft could be the answer for the spot this season, though it would be better for him to backup till he gets used to it.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Taft is known to be lazy and his work ethic is very questionable. Splitter put on a lot of weight last summer and can do that again. </div>

Taft's effort has been pretty weak this season, however, the same is said about Petro, and you've been continually saying great things about him while righting off Taft. Both players have a poor work ethic. Just be realistic with your thoughts and stay consistent, thats all i ask.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> It?s not like Splitter?s 25, he?s 18 and has ample time to get weight. Like I said, basketball is not played in rookie seasons, it?s played for many, many years.</div>

Read above, i'm not arguing that fact...i never did. You said he was ready now, i said he wasnt, thats how this started.

BTW - you said Crawford at 25 had lots of time to put on weight

consistency is key.


I'm done on this issue so no one else need comment, since i'm aware that this is sensless bickering. It just hard to reason wiht some people.

Peace.




BTW mrj18- we have a sig bet from the beginning of the year that needs to be talked about but whenever i try to pm you it says you're pm bin is full. I want you to send me the sig that i need to wear for a week after loosing the Cavs vs Knicks single game bet (though Lebron didnt end up playing) and i'm going to send you the sig you need to wear till next seasons training camp since you bet the Knicks would win the division 100% without a doubt its ridiculous to think anything else.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">You are constantly saying that Crawford is and will get better and better at the age of 25. But you say Bonner is maxed out and wont get any better, or at least not much better BECAUSE he is 25. Ok sure.
And its not that gaurds develop faster than big men, its that they develop quicker(sooner, at a younger age) than big men. It takes time for bigs to get comfortable with there bodies since often time's they're still growing coming in to the league. Gaurds have more time to learn how to use their size. So really i dont see your point at all. My point is that if you say Crawford is still, and will continue to improve than i disregard your ridiculous opinion that Bonner at the same age cant improve past where he is.</div>
You said it's not that guards develop faster, they develop sooner. What's the difference? Another great example of how your reasoning is. Crawford has much more talent than Bonner. I think that's pretty obvious. Bonner is a rookie at age 25. Crawford was a rookie at age 19. There is a big difference.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course he does the intangables like setting screens?!? Diving for balls, calling the good time out, fighting for the boards, running the lanes...he's like a JYD except for he's a cross between K. Thomas and Donyell on the offensive end. He's not the blocker or defensive player that Thomas is, and he cant rebound has good has either Donyell or Thomas, but he's got some time to learn and he's excused since this is his first NBA season. His fouls seem high for the minutes he plays because he's not expected to play alot of minutes...he knows this, so he uses his fouls wisely. He's not has concerned with being able to play 40 minutes so he's more aggressive. Nothing wrong with that at all. I'm forced to ask how many Raps games you've seen, cause you dont seem to know very much about regular players.
</div>
Your call, calling him a double-double guy in the near future is quite a stretch from what he's putting up especially since he doesn't have a whole bunch of time.

Nope, I don't watch a whole bunch of Raptor games and unlike you, I don't order league pass to see a team I don't like.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ya i was wrong to say he was a bad rebounder, i can admit that, though my saying it was more to bring reality back to you, since you were constantly talking about Kurt being this otherwordly rebounding machine. Just a case of wording it to strongly caused by totally disagreeing with everything you said. A better way of explaining it is to say Haslem is a great rebounder, Kurt is a good rebounder on a bad rebounding team. Also you folks in the NYK forum have moaned and moaned about haw Nazr wasnt a good rebounder. You used it in the explanation of why the Spurs trade was a good idea....now you're saying he was an excellent rebounder. Talk about flip flopping.</div>
:roflmfao:
He was always a very solid rebounder in his career. That was never in question, no you weren't trying to bring me back to reality. I excuse your ignorance, you only watching a few Knick games this season is okay. Some people consider Kurt Thomas undersized! If he can grab all those boards like than that has to say something about his rebounding, especially since he doesn't have great athleticism or a long wingspan etc. Even as a rookie, in 22 minutes he managed to get about 6 rebounds a game. Nazr was always a fairly solid rebounder, I don't remember saying that. So, I guess Bosh must be an average rebounder because he is getting 8 boards a game on a worse rebounding team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey thats fine, i've said the same thing to you. My point was that he's to thin to play it now, so the Knicks will have 6 powerforwards and one Bruno Sundov. Taft could be the answer for the spot this season, though it would be better for him to backup till he gets used to it. </div>
But this team that the Knicks have now, is likely not the one they'll start next season with.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Taft's effort has been pretty weak this season, however, the same is said about Petro, and you've been continually saying great things about him while righting off Taft. Both players have a poor work ethic. Just be realistic with your thoughts and stay consistent, thats all i ask.</div>
Petro has a high motivation level and he is 7 feet tall with a long wingspan. He automatically gets the nod over someone who?s smaller.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Read above, i'm not arguing that fact...i never did. You said he was ready now, i said he wasnt, thats how this started.</div>
You still have not answered why Splitter can play offense center, and defense power forward. Splitter is about 240 and so is Kristic. I?d rather have a hardworking undersized Splitter working hard for me at center than a lazy guy who?s underachieving. Look at Tim Thomas. He?s very strong and versatile and look at what he does with him being at 6?10. Underachieving can do that to you, and quite frankly, I?m not in the mood to watch this guy only try in a contract year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">BTW - you said Crawford at 25 had lots of time to put on weight
consistency is key. </div>
He does, why not? Why can?t he put on 5-10 pounds in the offseason?

Reasonability is the key
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm done on this issue so no one else need comment, since i'm aware that this is sensless bickering. It just hard to reason wiht some people.</div>
Yeah, it?s hard reasoning with me when your not using logic. It?s all good, I won?t hold it against you.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">BTW mrj18- we have a sig bet from the beginning of the year that needs to be talked about but whenever i try to pm you it says you're pm bin is full. I want you to send me the sig that i need to wear for a week after loosing the Cavs vs Knicks single game bet (though Lebron didnt end up playing) and i'm going to send you the sig you need to wear till next seasons training camp since you bet the Knicks would win the division 100% without a doubt its ridiculous to think anything else. </div>


First of all, my PM box is not full and second of all, I think there is a little misunderstanding in the bet. Let?s discuss.

 

Who has seen Tiago Splitter or Johan Petro play? Have you checked the stats? As dissapointing as Taft's stats are,Splitters are worse and Petro's raise doubt in my mind as to whether he belongs in round one. Even with a few years of basic basketball training,it may be he just does not have it. Shawn Bradley,at 7-6 at least was a fairly good college player,and he's had a lot of time to develop. Splitter,according to those who see him as a legit prospect,is no inside player,is about 230,but not strong. They say he runs well,good transition,not good D. So draft him if that is what you need.

 

I'm not going to continue mrj18, but i suggest you read everything on here till you see how you've contradicted yourself.
The bet..there was no misunderstanding, i've saved the pm's and sent them to you before, there was no misunderstanding. We'll talk more about it whenever i can actually get a pm throught to you(maybe check with a mod if its not your full bins fault). Either way you are not getting out of this bet.

 

Just one thing I'd point out, that was mentioned on page 2: Tiago Splitter is Brazilian (someone pointed out that he was compared to Gasol as they were both Spanish).

Also, Shelden Williams at #3. Will never happen. This mock draft is good, but that just sticks out like a sore thumb.