Official JBB 2005 NBA Mock Draft Rnd 1 (v2.0)

sean may that low?

 

I hate U of A, but getting Hassan Adams that far in the draft is nice.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Taft is your man for the present, and his upside is almost as great.</div>


I 100% agree with you and Shape on the Taft to New York issue. I suggested it back in the original version of the mock draft and i still think it would be solid. Playing at home, and with a strong supporter(if he likes you) like Thomas at his back, Taft could actually start trying, and if that happens watch out. He's got all the skills to be a top teir player in this league some day, and even next year could be ready for some solid minutes and decent numbers. He would help out the Knicks at the C spot alot more than the other PF/C's in the draft (other than Bogut) and he could bring them some of the attitude that New York bball is known for. The Knicks might actually havet to trade up to get him though, since on draft day the mock's are tossed out the window and any big man has his stock doubled and the undersized players get halved.


Shape- I totally didnt even consider Granger for the Raps but now that you think about it, he would fit perfectly! The injuries worry me though, since with age they might get even worse. I wonder though if the Raps will be able to grab him with the second pick, which might end up being a 15th or so. The injury problems make him unlikely for a top 10 pick, but any of the teams 11 through 16 will be good shots to pick him up. Who do you think would be a good second option for the Raps? Joey Graham maybe? His defence and lunch pale attitude is exactly what the Raps are looking for, and his solid offensive game on top of his ability to contribute almost immediately would certainly put him in Babcocks mind. The only think i wonder about is some scouts say his feel for the game is lacking. I've only seen him play twice and he looked solid, but i figure they know more than i do. If he is indeed abit lost out there, it might worry the Raps management since they are having a problem already with Hoffa drifting off into his own personal void from time to time. He could be around for Phili's pick though, so I would support that move if Granger is gone, and maybe even over Granger since health isnt an issue, though there IS less upside to Graham. What do you guys think?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, Chris Taft is the safe pick here. We're just starting to get over the monster High School classes of Amare Stoudamire, LeBron James, and Dwight Howard, because not many people seem to realize that an eighteen year old player like Green is most likely not going to be able to step right into a starting NBA role or be a 10+ ppg scorer on a team like New York. While Taft's effort is questioned, Green's effort is even more suspect. In fact, that's probably the biggest knock on Green, so if you're worried about guys not trying hard then you don't even want to look at Green. As for Green's projected draft position, he's a guy who scouts are all over the board on right now. While he'll likely be picked somewhere around the lottery, he doesn't have the potential to go in the top five like Taft does. Taft is a player who still has the potential to be as high as the #3 pick if he could just shed some of those labels place on his work ethic, because his body and hands are so amazing. Pretty much all scouts agree that if the NBA Draft were today then just about the furthest Chris Taft could fall is to #8. Picking Taft won't put Isiah Thomas' job in danger. What would possibly put his job in danger is if Taft slipped that far and Isiah took a High School player over him.</div>
Amare was in the same position as Green was in. I don?t expect Green to be starting right away, I do however expect him to be a good player to come off the bench for the Knicks. I never heard anything about Green?s work ethic being questioned. I just heard about him being inconsistent and things like that. I never heard it to the extent that his work ethic was more of a question mark than Green. Weren?t you the one saying that you see Taft becoming a huge bust?




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Isiah Thomas wants to plan for Houston not being there, then he has to be reasonable. What happens if Houston ends up coming back and you just spent your #8 pick on a Shooting Guard? You also have to consider that the draft is not the only way to get new talent at the Shooting Guard position. If you want to play out possible scenarios about Houston not coming back or Thomas being traded, then why not play out scenarios where the Knicks pick up a good Shooting Guard via Free Agency or trade? Besides, Gerald Green is not a player that you'd want to be thrown into that big time role right off the bat anyway. I doubt he wants to risk starting a high school player who's coming out of what is possibly the weakest crop of high school players in the last fifteen years, and if he did then Monta Ellis at #30 should be considered a huge steal. Although he had a bad All-American game, Ellis still has the potential to climb back into lottery consideration. If worst comes to worst for the Knicks and Allan Houston leaves, they can't sign a decent Free Agent, and they can't work out a trade, they'll always have Monta Ellis.</div>
That?s fine if Houston returns and we spend our pick on a SG/SF. Houston?s contract expires in 2007 which is only a little bit away. Houston will probably be gone by then, which means Green will only be about 20 years old or so which is still very young. We don?t need to give him a big time role. Green is a project and might have the biggest upside in the entire draft this year. Isn?t Monta Ellis a ?tweener? and not really SG material?




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Either you're extremely easy to please or you're contradicting yourself, because Ariza is nothing special. He's had two or three great games, but when it comes down to it he only averages six points and three rebounds per game. Do you want that kind of productivity out of your #8 pick and starting Shooting Guard? I don't know about you, but if all he can do is six points and three rebounds per game then I would personally say that he's two years away from competing.</div>
Ariza is something special. He gives the Knicks a lot of energy and defense and other things that don?t appear on the stat sheet. I never said Green would be starting either. If he can give us what Ariza has this year, than I think we will be fine.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Flashy is nice, but it doesn't win basketball games. Would you rather draft Fred Jones or Tim Duncan (not that I'm comparing Green and Taft to them or anything)? Also, I don't know about the actual crowd that shows up at the Garden, but Knicks fans in general won't let a guy get by with a below average season just because he's "flashy". As for having to "Darko" him, I'm not suggesting that he'll be getting 2 mpg. In fact, he might even be a 30 mpg type of player, but don't expect him to do great things with that time right away. Taft is your man for the present, and his upside is almost as great.</div>
I think you?re confusing you?re ideal season. Green can be a very solid player. I said he will please the crowd with his ?flashy? play, so what? He still can help the Knicks win games. It?s not that he?s one dimensional. I don?t see how Taft who is a real underachiever and overrated (according to your standards as well) is a no-brainer over a great young high school prospect.

 

wait why do spurs need another PG? i mean parker is good and i see that Beno Udrith is developing quite nicely

 

Just for comparison's sake, here is my mock draft... team needs have been taken into account. Sean May and Shelden Williams are not included, as I am fairly confident they will be returning to college.

Atlanta - 1 - Andrew Bogut
Charlotte - 2 - Marvin Williams
New Orleans - 3 - Chris Paul
Utah - 4 - Deron Williams
Portland - 5 - Gerald Green
Milwaukee - 6 - Raymond Felton
Golden State - 7 - Martynas Andriuskevicius
New York - 8 - Chris Taft
Toronto - 9 - Jarrett Jack
LA Clippers - 10 - Rashad McCants
LA Lakers - 11 - Charlie Villenueva
New Jersey - 12 - Fraz Vazquez
Orlando - 13 - Tiago Splitter
Minnesota - 14 - Joey Graham
Toronto - 15 - Danny Granger
Charlotte - 16 - Johan Petro
Indiana - 17 - Francisco Garcia
Boston - 18 - Hakim Warrick
Memphis - 19 - Nemanja Aleksandarov
Denver - 20 - Antoine Wright
Denver - 21 - Channing Frye
Phoenix - 22 - Ike Diogu
Houston - 23 - Wayne Simien
Sacramento - 24 - Ronny Turiaf
Detroit - 25 - Shawne Williams
Utah - 26 - Rudy Fernandez
Seattle - 27 - Sean Banks
San Antonio - 28 - Eddie Basden
Miami - 29 - Julius Hodge
New York - 30 - Kennedy Winston

 

Mardy Collins? I think you had him as 17th pick. I haven't heard of him. Could someone tell me about or give a link on him. Please and Thanks.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Salim is a shooting guard, he'll be a great zone buster for the Spurs and knock down wide open shots off of teams trying to double down on TD.


I think Granger showed he's fully recovered from his injuries. He lead his team to the Big Dance, and dropped 28 points against the Utes. A lot of analysts have said, "If he played for Duke, North Carolina, or a bigger school, he'd easily be a top 5 pick." Granger might not crack the top 10, but whoever gets him is getting an absolute gem. He might end up being the steal of the draft when all is said and done. I'd compare him to Shawn Marion.

Joey Graham could be a good fit in Toronto as well. He's also ready to play right away, and is strong as an ox. Apparently he can bench press 400lbs, that's almost twice his weight. However, Joey Graham doesn't look like he can get that much better. He gets most of his stats on pure hustle and strength. He's great at getting to the line and converting the 'And1.' I'd compare him to Ron Artest without the baggage.

Either player fits the need of the Raptors and is a major upgrade at the swing spot. Granger just has more 'upside.'</div>


i like the sound of both players, and i would be fine with the Raptors drafting either of them. Graham's lesser offensive skills are ok with me because of the options the Raptors have in Bosh, Alston, Rose, Bonner and Mo Pete. I really like Graham's defensive intensity.
Either will do

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">What do the Knicks need Gerald Green for? They have enough perimeter scorers as it is. Let's be honest, the Knicks, nor Isiah Thomas have anymore time to rebuild. They are a couple of players away from making the playoffs, and Isiah knows his job is on the line if he cannot get them back into the post season next year. Gerald Green is at least 2 years away from being a contributor to any team. He's not going to have a chance to develop with Marbuy, Crawford, Houston, Ariza, and Penny around.

Taft has some question marks about work ethic, but in New York he's going to be surrounded by the right people. Malik Rose, JYD, Kurt Thomas (maybe) Aguirre, possibly Ewing, and Sweetney will all push Taft and not allow him to slack off. Taft gives the Knicks a player who can score in the post. If he's motivated properly, he'll put up big numbers for the Knicks, he's more than capable of being a 20/10 player in the NBA. Taft has the skills, the athleticism, soft hands, and quick ups, all he lacks is desire. Maybe NCAA ball just bored him and he needed a new challenge, the NBA is his new challenge, and the Knicks will not pass up his potential.

We just cannot imagine Bogut being passed up by the Hawks for Paul. Even though Bogut is not the quickest player on the court, he doesn't need to be. What better way to get the fast break started than having a 7 footer who can rebound, block shots, and then make the outlet pass? He's being compared to Divac, because of his ability to play on the elbows and make sharp, crisp passes to his teammates. Vlade Divac is far slower, yet he played for an explosive fastbreak, motion offense in Sacramento.

Chris Paul is great, but the Hawks have money to spend in the off-season and there are plenty of PGs they can bring in. Earl Watson, Jeff McInnis, Antonio Daniels, Bobby Jackson, Larry Hughes, Marko Jaric, Damon Stoudamire, and Dan Dickau. Worst case scenario, there will be plenty of PGs left in the Second Round of the draft, but there isn't another player like Bogut this year.


He has not officially declared, but reports are saying he's leaning more towards going pro than returning to Wake Forest. Those recent reports were good enough evidence to include him in our draft.</div>
Taft,to me does not look 20/10,maybe 15/7 eventually,you really need desire,intensity and the willingness to take a pounding to avg 10 boards,actually,you need much of that stuff to be a good C at 6-10

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Salim is a shooting guard, he'll be a great zone buster for the Spurs and knock down wide open shots off of teams trying to double down on TD.


I think Granger showed he's fully recovered from his injuries. He lead his team to the Big Dance, and dropped 28 points against the Utes. A lot of analysts have said, "If he played for Duke, North Carolina, or a bigger school, he'd easily be a top 5 pick." Granger might not crack the top 10, but whoever gets him is getting an absolute gem. He might end up being the steal of the draft when all is said and done. I'd compare him to Shawn Marion.

Joey Graham could be a good fit in Toronto as well. He's also ready to play right away, and is strong as an ox. Apparently he can bench press 400lbs, that's almost twice his weight. However, Joey Graham doesn't look like he can get that much better. He gets most of his stats on pure hustle and strength. He's great at getting to the line and converting the 'And1.' I'd compare him to Ron Artest without the baggage.

Either player fits the need of the Raptors and is a major upgrade at the swing spot. Granger just has more 'upside.'</div>
Salim has been a shooting G,as were Jason Terry and Arenas. I see great quicness,good ballhandling and passing skills,basically if he really wants to be more than a role player,he will adjust. He appears to be pretty sharp as far as how the game is played and I predict he will be a sucess at point,better than at least one of the top 3.
In a draft where there is a lot of talk about "potential" a tag often applied to guys who still need to get work habits and learn basic skills,G Green has a TON of potential. He convinced be he can run,can outjump 95% of Nba players,is a better perimeter shooter than most,handles the ball well. Basically any upside you'd see to the assorted imports,or for that matter<Marvin Williams or Rudy Gay,Green can top. As with those others,what I don't know about is the passion for the game and winning attitude which shows in a commitment to work and improve,to play D,battle for rebounds,etc Taft,for one,has proved none of that,yet he's way ahead of Petro,for example,who has the raw physical package and no other credentials.

 

Taft,with often a 2"height advantage and a 25lb weight advantage didn't rack up dazzling stats,at Pitt,in the Pros,others will have the size advantage and he's gotta add a number of things to his game to even be a 15/7 guy. to be 20/10 he needs a Sean May heart transplant,or to imagine he"s Moses Malone,perhaps. Playing a rather basic post style,with less than max effort won't get him very far,and that's what he brought at Pitt,so even 15/7 would require him to crank up his dedication

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Amare was in the same position as Green was in. I don?t expect Green to be starting right away, I do however expect him to be a good player to come off the bench for the Knicks. I never heard anything about Green?s work ethic being questioned. I just heard about him being inconsistent and things like that. I never heard it to the extent that his work ethic was more of a question mark than Green. Weren?t you the one saying that you see Taft becoming a huge bust?</div>You can't really compare Amare to Green because when Amare came into the league he already had an NBA body. If you saw Green in the Mcdonalds all star game he was as thin as a twig. I'm talking Shaun Livingston thin and he won't be playing against point guards smaller than him either. He will easily be outweighed by 20 pounds or more when he steps on the court against NBA competition. I would liken his 1st and 2nd season to that of T-Mac's where he hardly got any playing time and rode the pine.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you?re confusing you?re ideal season. Green can be a very solid player. I said he will please the crowd with his ?flashy? play, so what? He still can help the Knicks win games. It?s not that he?s one dimensional. I don?t see how Taft who is a real underachiever and overrated (according to your standards as well) is a no-brainer over a great young high school prospect.</div>Picking Taft or Green is a toss up. Taft is an unbelievable talent, he just needs the right outlet to put his effort into. Amare came into the league with similar questions about his attitude and work ethic but you know how he turned out. The thing about Taft is that he already has an NBA body and will contribute right away. That is something that I can't see Gerald Green doing.

Not exactly a no-brainer but I think it goes with the situation that New York is in. Are they willing to wait on a high school talent that will probably take two years to develope or will they take someone with almost the same upside and more developed NBA body that can come in and produce right away? I think New York is about 1 solid player away from making the playoffs so the latter seems like a better situation for Isiah.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Averaging 20/10 is a stretch, and playing with Rose, JYD, Kurt Thomas, and Sweetney will make it even harder to get 10 boards a game. I think 15/7 is low though, Taft can score, and if he gets 12 to 15 shots per game he should be able to score 18 to 20 a game.</div>
Hold up, are you suggesting Taft can put up thos numbers now or eventually when he gets to the NBA?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Eventually of course. If he could put those numbers up now, he'd be the #1 pick. </div>
What type of numbers do you see him putting up as a rookie?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't really compare Amare to Green because when Amare came into the league he already had an NBA body. If you saw Green in the Mcdonalds all star game he was as thin as a twig. I'm talking Shaun Livingston thin and he won't be playing against point guards smaller than him either. He will easily be outweighed by 20 pounds or more when he steps on the court against NBA competition. I would liken his 1st and 2nd season to that of T-Mac's where he hardly got any playing time and rode the pine.</div>
I'm not talking about their body. James and Dwight were almost sure fire #1's and at the very least #2 for Dwight. Amare was a sleeper which is what I am trying to get at. I don't know about him being like Shaun Livingston. He has about 15 pounds on him and there about the same height. McGrady had 2 fairly solid seasons before he exploded. He put up 7/4.2/1.5 and had .95 blocks per game. His second season he put up 9.3/5.7/2.3 and a steal and 1.3 blocks a game. Those are pretty decent numbers and I?d take them. Isiah Thomas said he was looking for an athletic swingman and he was the one who drafted McGrady. Someone who is projected to being like him should catch his interest as well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Picking Taft or Green is a toss up. Taft is an unbelievable talent, he just needs the right outlet to put his effort into. Amare came into the league with similar questions about his attitude and work ethic but you know how he turned out. The thing about Taft is that he already has an NBA body and will contribute right away. That is something that I can't see Gerald Green doing.</div>
True, he does have a perfect body and arguably better than Amare. Although his attitude was in question, I don't think his desire was. This was said about Amare prior to the draft: "One of the most athletic big men in years. Unlike the big men of '01, there is no questioning his desire, a very fierce competitor. Outplayed the top big men of 2001 at the Nike Camp last year. Did not play HS basketball as a Junior due to eligibility reasons stemming from his season at Mount Zion Academy. Has lived the past year with his AAU coach and has persevered through tough times. Could have been a lottery pick as an 18 year old junior if the NBA didn't have a rule that a player can only be drafted after their class graduates." Taft is different though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not exactly a no-brainer but I think it goes with the situation that New York is in. Are they willing to wait on a high school talent that will probably take two years to develope or will they take someone with almost the same upside and more developed NBA body that can come in and produce right away? I think New York is about 1 solid player away from making the playoffs so the latter seems like a better situation for Isiah.</div>
How solid are we talking about Taft? What numbers do you see him putting up as a rookie?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not talking about their body. James and Dwight were almost sure fire #1's and at the very least #2 for Dwight. Amare was a sleeper which is what I am trying to get at. I don't know about him being like Shaun Livingston. He has about 15 pounds on him and there about the same height. McGrady had 2 fairly solid seasons before he exploded. He put up 7/4.2/1.5 and had .95 blocks per game. His second season he put up 9.3/5.7/2.3 and a steal and 1.3 blocks a game. Those are pretty decent numbers and I?d take them. Isiah Thomas said he was looking for an athletic swingman and he was the one who drafted McGrady. Someone who is projected to being like him should catch his interest as well. </div>I'm thinking both him and Shaun's body type are the same. Both are extremely skinny and will need a number of years to fill out their bodies. The thing about Mcgrady is that he was in Darrell Walkers dog house for those two years until Carter came and he developed more. He was extremely gifted athletically but his skills from highschool did not translate directly to the NBA until season 3.

Gerald Green at this point is hardly a sleeper. I think it will be surprising to see him fall to New York in the first place but if he did and Taft were available it would still be a very hard decision for Isiah to make.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">True, he does have a perfect body and arguably better than Amare. Although his attitude was in question, I don't think his desire was. This was said about Amare prior to the draft: "One of the most athletic big men in years. Unlike the big men of '01, there is no questioning his desire, a very fierce competitor. Outplayed the top big men of 2001 at the Nike Camp last year. Did not play HS basketball as a Junior due to eligibility reasons stemming from his season at Mount Zion Academy. Has lived the past year with his AAU coach and has persevered through tough times. Could have been a lottery pick as an 18 year old junior if the NBA didn't have a rule that a player can only be drafted after their class graduates." Taft is different though.</div>Well after Amare had problems with his school, his work ethic and overall attitude were questioned. That is the reason he fell so much in the draft. Taft is a bit different but his talent is undeniable. I think people will second think passing him up after everyone passed on Amare season's earlier. He was (like Amare) positioned to be a possible top 5 pick in last years draft until he decided to stay


[quoet]How solid are we talking about Taft? What numbers do you see him putting up as a rookie?[/QUOTE]IF he lives up to his potential and gets the proper playing time I can see him averaging 15 points 8 boards and 1 block. Against weak Eastern conference bigs it would not be totally far fetched to see him average even more. Rookie of the year numbers in some cases.