<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Lastly, imho Kobe is the only player in the league who could become MVP by sincerely "deciding to". He can't seem to get out of his own way when it comes to elevating the play of his team mates. He could do what Stevie does, and much better, but he's gotta want to. </div> Why do people always say this? Why would Kobe WANT to be like Steve Nash? The guy's a shooting guard and he's a scorer. If you mean it in the sense that he should get his teammtes involved like he did earlier in the series, then yes, I agree. But after a while, it gets annoying passing to teammtes who can't make shots at all, which is what often happened in the course of the regular season. It's like when I play in a streetball game for fun on the street and I know I am the best player on the floor as well (I'm a playmaking player)...If your teammates can't deliver on wide open looks and perfect setups, what else can you do but take over?? In addition, these are NBA PLAYERS!!! His supporting cast should atleast make some layups when he offers them, not to mention wide open shots. Now, I don't think the Lakers cast is that bad but their inconsistency in the regular season even pissed ME off, so I can't imagine how Kobe felt.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting arre:</div><div class="quote_post">the award is a joke, everyone knows inside that kobe is the real mvp and the BEST player. Next year will tell...</div> and if he doesnt win MVP next year then what? you said he would win it this year. now you say he'll win it next year, then if he doesnt again will you insist that he'll win it the year after? At what point do we stop taking your prediction seriouslly? Kobe had an incredible season and showed in the playoffs that he could be a team player. He very easily could have single handedly beaten the suns but he almost managed to do it without even taking over every game which would have been an incredible accomplishment. That said, he didn't deserve to win league mvp. I'm not so sure Nash did. I feel like Dirk should have won it or perhaps Lebron.
I didn't say he should copy Steve, that is your interpretation of my comments. He is talented enough to do so if he chose to, though. That said, he could do many, many things to elevate the play of his team. After only two tries at it in the playoffs the Laker team responded well. I agree than Kobe must have been miserable a good part of the year. On the other hand it must be hugely intimidating to have him for a team mate and to take a shot. ...any shot while he is on the floor. In that respect it is easier for a no stars team like the SUNS to play team ball. For example Parker had a real tough series. I don't think he was intimidated by the Suns, at all. ..or particularly well guarded for that matter. Something was in his head that prevented him from playing at his usual workmanlike levels. All Kobe's truly great individual play led to this year was a mediocre record and an early exit from the playoffs. Kobe will figure it out.. He surely doesn't need or want my advice.
I don't understand what the voters criteria really was, Dirk and Lebron didn't get proper respect in this. Also people need to stop comparing Kobe's game as a SG to Nash's game as a PG, there's reasons we have positions in basketball, Kobe's role is not to do what Nash does. Nash also shouldn't get extra hype for just doing what a PG is supposed to do anyways.
^ How is he overrated.. please tell me. And i'm sure that Kobe is not overrated... yea just because he held his team to game seven without Shaq, just because he got 3 rings and Nash didn't, just because he got 81 points. Again, i'm not questioning his ability as a player, Kobe is a great player, and can even be compared to MJ himself. So no need to rip me out. Again, it's my own opinion, you can have your own too. But i don't agree that he's overrated. Next time you say that, give some reasons, and i might even agree with you.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philip2136:</div><div class="quote_post">i personally think nash is really ovverated</div> gee what a surprise statment comming from a laker fan kobe fans need to realize one thing. its not enough to take a team to the playoffs...you need to lead your team to an elite record. you need to be one of the better teams in the league. 7th in the conference just DOESNT cut it. kobe fans need to realize something else...surrounding cast, doesnt impact MVP...look at shaq, iverson, garnett, duncan, malone...etc...all the winners had GREAT surrounding casts. not to mention that nash's surrounding cast, isnt exactly a team of all-stars. id say nash looked adversity in the face, and produced a season that NOBODY was predicting nobody is trying to take away from kobe's game or his year. he had a phenomenal individual year...but he didnt take his team to the next level. they had a decent season...but the mvp has to lead his team to something more then just "decent".
Congratulations to Nash, but i felt Kobe was a bit stiff here. It seems the only way to win MVP is with a decent supportive cast (not that the lakers didnt, but this is compared to phoenix). You need to bring other players up as well as play well yourself, which Kobe did to a degree, but Nash did better. He is deserving of the MVP, and for Kobe, this was probably one of the best seasons he is going to have, so maybe he is never destined to win MVP based on his style of play, no matter how he plays?
Kobe was definetly the best player in the league, and maybe the most valuable but Lamar Odom may have taken some votes off him. Although you could say Marion took votes from Nash. It just depends how you look at it. Usually a top 3 team gets the MVP anyway and they finished 2nd because of the seeds. Congratulations to Nash. He Definetly put forward the performance to earn it. As well as Lebron, Kobe and Dirk.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">gee what a surprise statment comming from a laker fan kobe fans need to realize one thing. its not enough to take a team to the playoffs...you need to lead your team to an elite record. you need to be one of the better teams in the league. 7th in the conference just DOESNT cut it. kobe fans need to realize something else...surrounding cast, doesnt impact MVP...look at shaq, iverson, garnett, duncan, malone...etc...all the winners had GREAT surrounding casts. not to mention that nash's surrounding cast, isnt exactly a team of all-stars. id say nash looked adversity in the face, and produced a season that NOBODY was predicting nobody is trying to take away from kobe's game or his year. he had a phenomenal individual year...but he didnt take his team to the next level. they had a decent season...but the mvp has to lead his team to something more then just "decent".</div> The Suns didn't truly have an "elite" record. The Suns had 3 teams with 6 or more wins more than them, and then they had Miami and Cleveland within 2 and 4 wins of them respectively. Nash making teammates better is overatted, that's what I would consider overatted in relation to him. It's especially evident when people say it in regards do Diaw. It makes me wonder if we're all watching the same games, or if people are watching the games at all. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and maybe the most valuable but Lamar Odom may have taken some votes off him</div> There was 0 chance of that happening.
Nash winning this years MVP is like Karl Malone winning the 1996-97 MVP over Jordan. Wrongful, but true.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lostmyluggage:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash winning this years MVP is like Karl Malone winning the 1996-97 MVP over Jordan. Wrongful, but true.</div> Nash is good but he is a horrible defender so I guess its not about defense so much anymore.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">The Suns didn't truly have an "elite" record. The Suns had 3 teams with 6 or more wins more than them, and then they had Miami and Cleveland within 2 and 4 wins of them respectively. Nash making teammates better is overatted, that's what I would consider overatted in relation to him. It's especially evident when people say it in regards do Diaw. It makes me wonder if we're all watching the same games, or if people are watching the games at all. </div> 4th in the nba isnt elite, but it is one of the "better teams in the league" which is exactly what i said. plus he was faced with adversity, and overcame it and produced a season that nobody was expecting. these are things an mvp needs to accomplish. i think you misunderstood what i said...what i meant was an mvp needs to either push his team to an elite record, or at least need to be one of the top teams in the league. either way...4th in the nba, is a whole lot better then 7th in the west its funny how you say that nash making his teammates better is nonsense and overrated...but every commentator and analyst seems to think thats exactly what nash does. it sure seems obvious to me and most people thats nash's game and thats exactly what he's out on the court doing...guess nobody's watching the games but you
If your going to compare anyone to Nash, it isn't going to be Kobe. If anything, it's going to be Bron. LeBron is going to get 5-6 MVP's during his career. The NBA knows this so I guess they decided to give it to the second best canidate, Nash. I don't care about the false predictions on the Suns, or the injuries, or anything else. All of that is not nearly as impressive as a 21 year old winning 50 games for his team and leading a team at such a young age. How can such a young player be averaging almost double in ppg than the MVP, Nash? There's nothing to compare when you look at overall efficency rating. Assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, clutch shots LeBron > Nash How can his team still have 50 wins without Hughes for several games? How one goes from 31 ppg and 48% shooting during the season to 35 ppg and 51% shooting in the first round finals? How? By being that damn good I guess....
Malone winning over Jordan all those years back was a decision that fans believed to be false, and they were vindicated in the playoffs. After seeing Steve Nash lead the Suns back from down 3-1, which is a time some teams might give up, and seeing Kobe looking like he'd completely given up in he second half of game seven illustrates to me that the choice was a good one, especially given the size the Suns gave up at almost every position.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">4th in the nba isnt elite, but it is one of the "better teams in the league" which is exactly what i said. plus he was faced with adversity, and overcame it and produced a season that nobody was expecting. these are things an mvp needs to accomplish. i think you misunderstood what i said...what i meant was an mvp needs to either push his team to an elite record, or at least need to be one of the top teams in the league. either way...4th in the nba, is a whole lot better then 7th in the west its funny how you say that nash making his teammates better is nonsense and overrated...but every commentator and analyst seems to think thats exactly what nash does. it sure seems obvious to me and most people thats nash's game and thats exactly what he's out on the court doing...guess nobody's watching the games but you </div> It's the cliche line that everyone likes to use, just because everyone says it doesn't mean it's true. I'd like to know what player Nash (or anyone) has "made better", and I don't mean what player has gotten more minutes and shots therefore has a higher PPG. People always talked about how Kidd made Kenyon good, that was a falacy in itself. Everyone wants to talk about how Nash makes guys better yet seems to ignore how Nash himself got better by going to Phoenix. The players getting better is far more credited to the system than it is to Nash. He also got better because of the system, or do people think he just started working extra hard in the summer of 04? He's just a great player in the system, not the one who makes everyone learn to shoot. There's no one that can make a player better outside of the player themselves, because to be better you have to work on your game. You can make the game easier for your teamamtes, but that does not make them better. Maybe I'm just leaning on terminology that isn't important. I also am not a fan of all this rising over adversity argument, it's the same thing the people supporting Kobe want to use with how the Lakers weren't ranked as a playoff team, blah blah blah. If you want to talk about overcoming adversity or perception, how about looking at Memphis who basically no one had in the playoffs yet won 49 games. Since when as the MVP become about how many factors you can overcome or how much of a surprise a team can be as opposed to your performance on the court? Yes, 4th in the league is better than 7th in the West, but since when was I an avid supporter of Kobe for MVP? I've said Lebron and Dirk all along. Even Billups though I did not have him as my choice; what did Nash do that Billups didn't? People want to argue that Billups having a good team plays against, so why didn't it play agaisnt Nash? What were the Suns last year with 2 other All-Star, another boredeline All-Star, 2 other Top 20 players and All-NBA team members, and Joe Johnson a Top 50 guy on the team? Bad? They had even more talent than the current Detroit roster, and it's not like Detroit is deep; they're truly only one deep with McDyess. Dirk had 6 more wins, and he had Howard, Stackhouse, Daniels, Van Horn, and Harris all miss 20 or more games in the season. His second best player, Howard or Terry depending on who you ask does not compare to Marion. Even Diaw can easily be considered better than them, especiallt seeing what he's done without Nash (since Nash being there seems to downplay everyone else), and what he's done in the playoffs. So you wanna talk about overcoming adversity? Lebron had 4 less wins, and was even more critical to the success of the team. He also had arguably his second best player injured for most of the season. He also had no one on his team with the caliber of Marion. Let's be serious here, the media on the general currently has a love for Nash. He's a great player, but he's getting a lot of his merits on how much he's liked, and image as opposed to out performing his peers. I really don't care too much about arguing who should win MVP, the majority of the media members love Nash and voted for him, so who cares.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash also shouldn't get extra hype for just doing what a PG is supposed to do anyways.</div> Even though a point guard is supposed to distribute and create opportunities for their teammates doesn't mean that thats always the case. Nash isn't getting "extra hype", he's getting credit for being the best in league at those things. Leading the league in assists isn't what I call hype. How many players have come out and said that Nash get them better shots, open shots and get them the ball right where they need it? He gets everyone involved and I believe that makes them play harder, knowing that there is always someone looking for you. There are players that even admit that they don't always go 100% if they're playing for a point guard that doesn't look to get their teammates involved, but instead look for their own shot. On top of that he shoots 50% from the floor, 44% from 3PT and 92% FT. How many guys in the league can say that? This is what Tim Thomas said: "He's always looking to give the ball up," Thomas said. "And it makes your job a whole lot easier, because if you run the floor, you definitely know you're going to get it, rather than running the floor knowing that you're not going to get it." "With a guy like Steph, you can't really get involved unless he lets you get involved," Thomas said. "He's a scoring point guard. And scoring point guards don't really look to give the ball up as much." This isn't an isolated case. Sure he can't make bad players good but he certainly can take them to a higher level, which they wouldn't be at if they're playing with a pg like Marbury, Francis, etc. And if the individual players play at a higher level, the team plays at a higher level, which is what I think an MVP should do. Kobe, LeBron, Dirk are all deserving buts it's debatable who deserves it more over the others. It will all depend on your criteria but Nash is certainly a worthy recipent.
Yes, not all PG's do that, but he also isn't the only PG doing so. Kidd, Billups, Paul, even a guy like Brevin Knight also do the same things. With similar offensive players, and playing at that pace, they would all be the ones leading the league in assists. Even comparing all those guys, Nash attempts 1-2 more shots than all of them. Also I didn't argue him being a worthy recipient, I'm just appalled at how he would beat the other guys by a good margin, when his play was far from dominating over there's. I'm also quite disgusted at the lack of respect Dirk recieved.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting olskoolFunktitude:</div><div class="quote_post"> The suns without Nash would have been very unlikely to make the playoffs. they didnt make the playoffs when they had stephon marbury and shawn marion and joe johnson and amare stoudemire. Of course all the suns have talent but they cant seem to win without Nash. Personally I think Dirk should have taken it. cant really argue with kobe finfishing 4th</div> Yes, they did make the playoffs when Marbury was there. The very next year, when Marbury was traded, they missed the playoffs.
