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Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Fez Hammersticks, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    Then run plays for plumlee and Vonleh. Both have low post skill, we just never see it.
     
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  2. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    This is true. Our guards take all the shots (for good reason.)
     
  3. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Plumlee also has a pretty good mid-range jump shot, which we also never see. I guarantee that if we ran a few pick-and-pops with Plumlee, we would not be disappointed.
     
  4. Dan Marang

    Dan Marang Numbers Guru

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    running plays for Plumlee?! **shudders**

    I mean, I guess if you like throwing possessions away that's cool and all. Me personally, I like utilizing something that has a better than 30% chance of scoring points. But ya know, reasons and all. :blush:
     
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  5. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    The only low-post play Stotts ever ran was:
    1 - Dump to LMA
    2 - LMA passes back out to the entry passer
    3 - Pass swings around for a weak-side corner 3

    That's the only thing Stotts has ever drawn up for a post play. And the last time it was routinely used was two seasons ago.
    My point is that Stotts doesn't have a post offense.
     
  6. Dan Marang

    Dan Marang Numbers Guru

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    Stott doesn't have anyone who has any post offense skill. That's the real issue. Vonleh has what could develop into a post game but he has no singular defined move or skill set yet. That gets developed in the off season and practice, not active game time. It's tested in games. Ed Davis has a little running hook that's pretty solid, Meyers has a drop step floater/baby hook- but that's really the extent of the post offense the Blazers have exhibited. It doesn't make sense to feed the post b/c the double teams aren't coming to help out against any of those guys. I can see giving it to one of them on the switch, but even then it has to be the right switch.

    Stott actually ran a ton of different looks for LMA on the block. The direct action was always the same, LMA gets the ball on the block. But the backside/weakside action was always different so opponents couldn't double from the same place time and again with the same personnel. Give Stotts an efficient post player and the offense will build around it- it makes his flow offense more effective b/c you can't load up against it then.
     
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  7. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

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    This right here. Some people are so insistent that Stotts sucks because he isn't doing the things that seem to be needed, but when the reality is, he isn't doing them because we CANT do them. Wouldn't that be the sign of a bad coach? Trying to play to our weaknesses than our strengths? You use what works during the game and work on what doesn't in practice. Until it works consistently in practice, you don't bring it onto the game floor.
    Stotts is doing great as far as I can see and unless people are at our practices to break down what we are working on, the criticism is unfounded...
     
  8. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    How can we say that a Plumlee pick and pop from 15 feet only had a 30% chance of scoring if it's never run?

    Don't just look at numbers. Watch him shoot pregame. Watch him nail jumpers from the top of the key. Analyze his stroke. He absolutely has the ability.
     
  9. Dan Marang

    Dan Marang Numbers Guru

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    If you want an example of this- watch the TWolves and Sam Mitchell last night. It's physically painful to watch their sets/rotations.
     
  10. Dan Marang

    Dan Marang Numbers Guru

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    That Dame PnR w/Plumlee is run about 15 times a game. Plumlee catches it in ample space to shoot probably 6-7 times a night, yet he doesn't. Why? Because he can't. If he develops that shot, then that dynamic changes.

    If an NBA player has a skill, he's going to use it. It's not only a benefit to the team, it's a financial benefit to him. If he truly has that in his bag, he'd show it. This isn't one of those "taking one for the team" situations- he just can't shoot from 15' consistently.
     
  11. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I'd assume Stotts hadn't given him the green light to take that shot. But like I said--watch him in pregame shoot around. He has that shot. Don't assume just because it isn't being utilized that it doesn't exist. I've seen him nail that mid-range jump shot repeatedly. I was amazed at how much better his jumper looks than his free throw.
     
  12. Dan Marang

    Dan Marang Numbers Guru

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    everyone in the NBA looks fantastic in warmups, ask @HCP - I bet you he'll tell you the exact same thing. I've seen the worst shooters in NBA history stroke from 3 pregame. Big difference when the lights and cameras come on.
     
  13. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    So then, how do we know whether he can hit the shot in game if he never takes it in game? You spout dogmatically that he can't, but we don't know because it's not a part of the offense.
     
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  14. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Yup. That's one thing that Rolo could do that Plums can not. He could hit that 10-12 footer.
     
  15. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    I find this line of reasoning either disingenuous or lazy. You don't need a post-player to create easy shots in the paint. Screens, cuts, and passing will do a better job than one PF/C creating on their own. Last year, when we supposedly had a guy with post offense skills we still attempted the 4th fewest shots in the paint. The year before we were 6th worst. The year before we were the 9th worst. Oddly enough, we get rid of LMA and we're seeing the highest attempts in the paint during the Stotts era! Though I think that's a testament to Dame/CJ/Plumlee.
     
  16. Dan Marang

    Dan Marang Numbers Guru

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    this is a 2 parter- 1 it shows how awful his post footwork is. 2 it shows how comfortable/confident he is taking a jumper over a guy 6'8"

     
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  17. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Video isn't there. Says "can't find it" or something along those lines.
     
  18. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Because attempting to create for himself and shooting a contested fadeaway is exactly the same as shooting open, balanced, and in rhythm off a well-placed feed.
     
  19. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    I see the video, and it's as described.
    However, I know what it's like to not have embedded items show up - it happens to me often when I use Firefox on my home computer.
     
  20. Dan Marang

    Dan Marang Numbers Guru

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    It's neither- the Blazers have one competent paint scorer in Ed Davis. You need to have players who move without the ball, catch the ball, and finish with the ball. The Blazers don't have that up and down their roster. It's a glaring weakness. Has been for some time. They have shot makers and shot creators, but not paint finishers. That's what the Blazers are lacking. There's no amount of coaching or cutting that changes that at the NBA level. Defenses have to honor those players that are cutting- if they aren't a threat at 20 feet then you don't go out there with them and instead sag off, clogging the paint. Which makes cutting futile. You can't have it in a vacuum. An NBA offense is like an ecosystem, each part driving the other. You can't just say do X and Y will happen. If A, B, C before it don't accomplish goals - then X doesn't mean anything.
     

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