Offseason Layout By J-Rich23

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by .cabangbang, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    I know I screwed up on this but, I think the New Orleans trade is good. Dickau and Speedy I think are free agents so they will re-sign one of them I think most likely Dickau will be re-signed and Speedy will walk. They will draft Marvin Williams

    PG: Derek Fisher/ Dan Dickau
    SG: JR Smith/ Casey Jacobsen
    SF: Marvin Williams/ Bostjan Nachbar/ Rodney White
    PF: PJ Brown/ Chris Andersen/ Jackson Vroman
    C: Lee Nailon/ Adonal Foyle/ Maciej Lampe
     
  2. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    Good analysis there, CR. I think that the Kings will hold onto Mobley, considering their lack of depth at SG.

    I was fooling around and decided to put up this hypothetical trade for you guys to think about:

    Portland - Toronto - Golden State

    Portland is overloaded with bad contracts: they still have to find a way to purge Derek Anderson (2 years, 18.7 million), Ruben Patterson (2 years, $12 million) and/or Theo Ratiliff (3 years, $35 million). They are likely looking to make a free agent run for 2007 and tank next year to get another high draft pick. Although they signed Miles and Randolph in the offseason, both failed to produce as expected. The only bright spot last season was the play of C Joel Pryzbilla. Their only hope is that young rookie Sebastian Telfair lives up to what they (and nearly no other team) expect. It's unlikely that we'd be unable to unload Fisher or Foyle on them, but if they could move any of the three players above, I bet they'd listen in a 3 way trade.

    Toronto is looking to get rid of Rose and Alston and bring back some talent for them. They have a lot of uncertainty. Why not shake things up?

    Finally, the Warriors have to trade to do anything this offseason. They can take back some contracts to do so. They'll facilitate this trade. I'm usually against randomly proposing trades that have no basis in fact, but I was looking for a way to get a mid-round draft pick to pick up one of the many guys on the board in the middle of the round. Forgive me as I hypothesize out loud:

    Theo Ratliff, Ruben Patterson and Derek Fisher to Toronto.
    Jalen Rose and Rafer Alston to Portland.
    Lamond Murray and a 2005 draft pick (the #16 overall, originally from Philly) to the Warriors.

    Toronto does this trade to shore up the middle and allow Chris Bosh to slide to PF on a more full-time basis. Of course, it's contingent on Ratliff being healthy. Toronto also gets a veteran point guard to either back up their rookie draft pick (likely a point guard if this trade went down) and they get rid of the tempermental Alston, who's contract lasts as long as Fisher's contract. Finally, Patterson replaces Rose's role in the lineup as a scorer with only 2 guaranteed years. The negatives are that Ratliff also has an extra year compared to Rose, as well as Derek Fisher's long contract (although it is the same length as Alstons, just slightly more money). But, their future plans nearly end up the same because they have so few long-term contracts on the books and only have to worry about resigning Chris Bosh in that offseason.

    Portland likes the trade because of the future cap relief - it gets rid of Ratliff, priming them for the 2007 offseason instead of having that extra contract looming over there. Alston is a good point guard, and although he may not have the right image for the kind of player that Portland is trying to rebuild with, his contract is well-priced for his talent even with all of his downsides. A change of scenery might also help him out. Further, Jalen can play alongside Miles and replace the injured/aging Derek Anderson, giving them a better look at the wing. The negatives are having another two guys, Rose and Alston, who aren't the best veteran presences in the clubhouse with their complaining, but I don't expect them to be bad "rentals" for Portland's long term plans.

    Finally, the Warriors go for the trade to get back former Cal star Lamond Murray - not for his diminished skills, but for his expiring contract. (If they were really desperate, they could take Alvin Williams instead - except Toronto would probably have to give up more compensation for that). The real kicker here is Toronto's draft pick. Toronto will understandably have a hard time giving up a pick for merely Derek Fisher plus cap relief, but it's a possibility - especially if they feel that Rose and Alston are too much for them to keep for another season.

    I'd just like to say that there are a lot of variations on this trade, including the Warriors contributing more players or future picks, Toronto moving Aaron Williams' expiring contract, etc. I just thought I'd try to keep it simple and propose an alternate trade to J-Rich23's attempt. Although my trade looks horribly messy now. [​IMG]
     
  3. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">I know I screwed up on this but, I think the New Orleans trade is good. Dickau and Speedy I think are free agents so they will re-sign one of them I think most likely Dickau will be re-signed and Speedy will walk. They will draft Marvin Williams

    PG: Derek Fisher/ Dan Dickau
    SG: JR Smith/ Casey Jacobsen
    SF: Marvin Williams/ Bostjan Nachbar/ Rodney White
    PF: PJ Brown/ Chris Andersen/ Jackson Vroman
    C: Lee Nailon/ Adonal Foyle/ Maciej Lampe</div>

    Speedy is signed for another year. Dickau is a free agent, though. So is Bostjan Nachbar, Casey Jacobsen, Lee Nailon, and Jackson Vroman.

    Magloire is a BYC player too, which is why I was surprised that the trade works technically. I didn't know that until I looked it up.

    There are a few lineup problems: Nailon is a SF/PF, not a C. It'd be funny to see him banging in the post. [​IMG] Actually, I think if you switched the PF and C spots, you'd get their positions more exact. Most likely they'd start Andersen by Brown due to Andersen's hustle, boards, and shotblocking. Brown started at C a lot over the season.

    A more likely lineup under your trade:
    PG: Speedy Claxton/ Dan Dickau
    SG: JR Smith / Derek Fisher
    SF: Marvin Williams/ Rodney White
    PF: PJ Brown / Maciej Lampe
    C: Chris Andersen / Adonal Foyle / Jackson Vroman

    They also have enough cap room (at least $25 mil) to sign two major free agents. Probably someone at SG or maybe C.

    To balance it the trade so that NO even considers it, we'd have to give up our draft pick I think. (The #9). Anyway, keep on thinkin', there's always creative ways to move players with 30 teams to trade with.
     
  4. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Good stuff Zhone, definitely interesting. I think the only way New Orleans coughs up Jamal Magloire is if they found Andrew Bogut and we offer them our #9 and an additional future pick (2006(?) Dallas) and if it comes down to it, another first rounder next season. That might not be a bad thing if the projected goals are to make the playoffs next season, but trading any future pick could be disastrous if Baron has a career ending injury and we have no way to improve but the draft. Also it's yet to be seen how Troy Murphy and Adonal Foyle hold up in the playoffs and really buckle down on their defense. Foyle can defend the weakside, but he's pretty mediocre in the post and can't do everything when there's no help from Murphy. Troy Murphy just can't defend other than using his hands to pick at the ball, he'll show 20 minutes of defense and after that he just gets too tired or sloth like. But Magloire would be just a huge improvement if we can use the draft this year as bait.

    When the final draft is decided, there could be more players of talent and interest coming out, in addition to us possiblity landing a higher pick.
     
  5. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I would love to get Magloire as he is a great offensive big and solid at D. Adonyl also seems better coming off the bench but then what happens with Biedrins? He would be the third string guy which would stop much of his development. We could move him to 2nd string PF but then Zarko would lose his playing time. I guess Adonyl may have to be involved in the trade for Magloire because his contract is similar to Magloires?
     
  6. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Zhone:</div><div class="quote_post">Speedy is signed for another year. Dickau is a free agent, though. So is Bostjan Nachbar, Casey Jacobsen, Lee Nailon, and Jackson Vroman.

    Magloire is a BYC player too, which is why I was surprised that the trade works technically. I didn't know that until I looked it up.

    There are a few lineup problems: Nailon is a SF/PF, not a C. It'd be funny to see him banging in the post. [​IMG] Actually, I think if you switched the PF and C spots, you'd get their positions more exact. Most likely they'd start Andersen by Brown due to Andersen's hustle, boards, and shotblocking. Brown started at C a lot over the season.

    A more likely lineup under your trade:
    PG: Speedy Claxton/ Dan Dickau
    SG: JR Smith / Derek Fisher
    SF: Marvin Williams/ Rodney White
    PF: PJ Brown / Maciej Lampe
    C: Chris Andersen / Adonal Foyle / Jackson Vroman

    They also have enough cap room (at least $25 mil) to sign two major free agents. Probably someone at SG or maybe C.

    To balance it the trade so that NO even considers it, we'd have to give up our draft pick I think. (The #9). Anyway, keep on thinkin', there's always creative ways to move players with 30 teams to trade with.</div>
    Thanks Zhone. I knew I had stuff wrong, not every Warrriors fan know the Hornets like you do [​IMG]
     
  7. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Yeah keep coming up with the ideas, Jrich23, even though if I was New Orleans, I'd probably hang up the phone [​IMG]

    Anything can happen and maybe twice like last time with the Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton/Dale Davis trade.
     
  8. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah keep coming up with the ideas, Jrich23, even though if I was New Orleans, I'd probably hang up the phone [​IMG]

    Anything can happen and maybe twice like last time with the Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton/Dale Davis trade.</div>
    I'd hang up the phone on me too. Just gimme time and I'll dream up the perfect trade [​IMG]
     
  9. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd hang up the phone on me too. Just gimme time and I'll dream up the perfect trade [​IMG]</div>
    Hey this is all in good fun and definitely fun to talk about. [​IMG]
     
  10. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    James Posey / Jason Williams for Derek Fisher / Adonal Foyle / 2nd rounder works, but the question is why would Memphis do it? I can't see myself doing that trade as Memphis unless some third team gives us some good stuff. Three way trades are so complicated though...

    Also I dislike Jason Williams' character, even though he's pretty fun to watch in the open court (lots of flashiness to his game). Would he mind being a backup to Baron Davis and would fans even warm up to a guy that's known for being volatile and a complete yokel? The trade is primarily two-fold in that it dumps bad contracts and gets us a small forward that can defend/score and another talented playmaker. Memphis does it because they need more maturity at their guard spot and because they might have problems with making James Posey a full time two guard and because he fights for minutes with Brian Cardinal/Shane Battier who are signed big contracts. It kind of ruins our leverage with trading Dunleavy though, since it probably means we don't plan on keeping him anyway once we get James Posey, but maybe the possible third team involved might want him and take on Foyle or Fisher.
    I think this scenario is kind of flawed because although Fisher is a nice guy, good shooter, he isn't a pure point. Also Foyle is a bit over-priced, even though he is a good defender, but is more of a traditional center and more unselfish than Lorenzen Wright and way more mobile and aware on D than Jake Tsakalidas.

    Also this trade makes more sense in a 3 way where Jason Williams goes to some other team that needs a pure point guard that can shoot and Memphis ends up getting incoming talent to replace the outgoing talent. The third team would have to be a guy willing to give up a scorer (a 2 guard) to get some playmaking in there and take on either Fish/Foyle. With pure point guards being in demand this offseason, something might happen with pure point guards with sizeable contracts getting dealt to teams needing them.

    Also who does Memphis use as point guard if Jason Williams gets traded? I don't think it would be Fisher unless, the future of the Memphis offense is nothing but Pau Gasol working down low. Also they need a team willing to give up their 2-guard or a pick to get a 2-guard.

    Also who is our center?

    I think without Foyle and only Biedrins, our depth at the center spot makes us pretty much screwed in terms of the "last line of defense". Teams will walk all over us more than they did already.
     
  11. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    Deals involving Foyle are tricky,Andy B is foul prone,Murph is no shotblock threat,we'd need to bag a center,maybe Jerome James? as we won't see a starting C type in the draft,unless we took Frye and he developed faster than anyone expects. I doubt Mully will make a move leaving us too thin at C,even if it's otherwise sweet.

    Zhone had an interesting scenario,giving Fish,getting a pick. We add in Cheaney or White,a # 2 this year,plus a # 2 in '07 and maybe it has a chance. Any deal that can convert D Fish into a rd 1 pick is interesting.
     
  12. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I dunno Jerome James has never played like that before. He sounds like Dampier part II (contract year), but worse attitude when it comes to the locker room.

    Zhone's idea is pretty cool, but which teams aren't worrying about cap situation or aren't in line to getting a cheaper more versatile pg backup (with veteran experience) than Fisher? Hard to tell which teams would even give us a first rounder for him. The Rockets? That's anywhere from 24 to however they finish in the playoffs.
     
  13. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    There was some discussion earlier about the risks of having 3 round 1 picks. If it's high-risk "Prospects",that can be,but after the high slots,salaries are lower than what a lot of borderline veterans get,we get 3-4 years of discount talent and no way get Arenas'd just as a #2 becomes a standout. I love # 2's for grabbing a high risk project,or a guy who should of been a #1.

    this could be a pretty crazy draft. There are 4 or 5 guys often said to be top 10 who have more holes in their game than I have in my socks. Meanwhile,some mocks list a guy like Julius Hodge as a LATE rd 2? Compare stats for Dwayne Jones and Chris Taft. Guess which one is supposed to be a round 2. Nobody watches the games anymore,they just build new rumors upon old ones. The Mocks,at least some,will be right on with some calls,way off on others.
    Even Marvin Williams,who has some game and is really athletic seems to have no clue when it comes to boxing out,plays D only a few min a game and when inside has no trickery,expects he's only got to score over a much inferior athlete. Marvin could mature into a star,or be a one-dimension guy. He may not be ready to start as a rookie. The 3 point G's are quality,though there is no Kidd in them,no Baron.
     
  14. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">James Posey / Jason Williams for Derek Fisher / Adonal Foyle / 2nd rounder works, but the question is why would Memphis do it? I can't see myself doing that trade as Memphis unless some third team gives us some good stuff. Three way trades are so complicated though...

    Also I dislike Jason Williams' character, even though he's pretty fun to watch in the open court (lots of flashiness to his game). Would he mind being a backup to Baron Davis and would fans even warm up to a guy that's known for being volatile and a complete yokel? The trade is primarily two-fold in that it dumps bad contracts and gets us a small forward that can defend/score and another talented playmaker. Memphis does it because they need more maturity at their guard spot and because they might have problems with making James Posey a full time two guard and because he fights for minutes with Brian Cardinal/Shane Battier who are signed big contracts. It kind of ruins our leverage with trading Dunleavy though, since it probably means we don't plan on keeping him anyway once we get James Posey, but maybe the possible third team involved might want him and take on Foyle or Fisher.
    I think this scenario is kind of flawed because although Fisher is a nice guy, good shooter, he isn't a pure point. Also Foyle is a bit over-priced, even though he is a good defender, but is more of a traditional center and more unselfish than Lorenzen Wright and way more mobile and aware on D than Jake Tsakalidas.

    Also this trade makes more sense in a 3 way where Jason Williams goes to some other team that needs a pure point guard that can shoot and Memphis ends up getting incoming talent to replace the outgoing talent. The third team would have to be a guy willing to give up a scorer (a 2 guard) to get some playmaking in there and take on either Fish/Foyle. With pure point guards being in demand this offseason, something might happen with pure point guards with sizeable contracts getting dealt to teams needing them.

    Also who does Memphis use as point guard if Jason Williams gets traded? I don't think it would be Fisher unless, the future of the Memphis offense is nothing but Pau Gasol working down low. Also they need a team willing to give up their 2-guard or a pick to get a 2-guard.

    Also who is our center?

    I think without Foyle and only Biedrins, our depth at the center spot makes us pretty much screwed in terms of the "last line of defense". Teams will walk all over us more than they did already.</div>
    That's a real good trade custodian, but I really think we would have to move Dunleavy in a trade for an established big man at a good price. With Posey, Pietrus, and Dunleavy, we have an almost full spot at SF. Dunleavy I think is the worst out of all. Posey can shoot and play D, while Pietrus I could see as being the star or the Warriors. Also trading Dun-Dun for an established big man would eliminate all real problems between who would start between the two yungun's at the SF.
     
  15. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Remember, only trading dun for an established big man is like trying to buy a new car for $500. Ain't going to happen. We need more to offer and it's going to take more than just Dunleavy. There has to be some team with a logjam of big men and they're looking to get a small forward in return. I would think Boston and the fact they have two high school power forwards with footwork available for trade. I don't know what the rest of their game is other than they are all potential: Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins.
     
  16. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Remember, only trading dun for an established big man is like trying to buy a new car for $500. Ain't going to happen. We need more to offer and it's going to take more than just Dunleavy. There has to be some team with a logjam of big men and they're looking to get a small forward in return. I would think Boston and the fact they have two high school power forwards with footwork available for trade. I don't know what the rest of their game is other than they are all potential: Al Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins.</div>
    Does Blount have a BYC contract? He could beneift for a while. But what I was thinking is something like a Lee Nailon talent at a good price that plays center. I really don't know of many, but you might
     
  17. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">Does Blount have a BYC contract? He could beneift for a while. But what I was thinking is something like a Lee Nailon talent at a good price that plays center. I really don't know of many, but you might</div>
    Blount does have BYC, but I don't know if the Celts would shop him around unless it's to improve their middle. Raef/Blount appears to be solid, although expensive.

    Lee Nailon is a "combo forward" or "tweener". I dont' think he ever played center unless New Orleans was desperate or trying to be funny.
     
  18. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Blount does have BYC, but I don't know if the Celts would shop him around unless it's to improve their middle. Raef/Blount appears to be solid, although expensive.

    Lee Nailon is a "combo forward" or "tweener". I dont' think he ever played center unless New Orleans was desperate or trying to be funny.</div>
    Well I mean the attention. Not the skill or size.
     
  19. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I mean the attention. Not the skill or size.</div> Oh, I dunno about that. Most centers in the league don't really score down low and defend. Those type of centers are called "All-stars", even the ones that dont' defend, but can score.
     
  20. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    I bet that Boston would love to get rid of Mark Blout. In my opinion though, this would be a horrible move for the Warriors. The guy's hands are worse than Dampier's and he's not a defenisve wiz either, thus he's just a big body who can kind of rebound. Even if he were cheaper, I wouldn't grab him.

    I would grab a college guy over a lot of the vets that are available. A lot of them are college seniors, so are well prepared. The only problem is they're mostly undersized.
     

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