Offseason plan by Run BJM

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Well i thought i'd just throw out trades to see what you guys think. I wouldn't do it in someone elses thread. I could see Orlando doing it because Hill probably isnt around too much longer and Turgolu isn't too young either. We could obviously throw in a pick or both of our second rounders or something.

The SEA trade has no point other than it worked. Maybe relieve some cap space because they could resign Dun for much less than they signed Lewis and wouldn't have to resign Daniels as a backup PG if they have Fisher. Fisher also plays D and their team is rather young and could use some leadership, especially if Ray Allen leaves.</div> Before you didn't explain what you were trying to get at in firing out these 3 trades simultaneously so it's assumed you either don't know or (I don't want to insult you) just don't "get it". But since you explained where you were coming from, I can see some points you're trying to make.

I also don't know what you mean about Turkoglu being old. He's only 26 or so, same age as Baron. Seattle has plenty of cap relief in not re-signing Ray Allen (14 mil) and using that cap to re-sign Vladimir Radmanovic, Shard's contract or Flip or Antonio Daniels. This is a team whose team salary is only 22 mil in season 2005-2006, which is plenty of cap room to decide who goes and who stays. Also Dun isn't quite the player Rashard Lewis is so I doubt the Sonics would penny pinch when they invested all this time in him. He's an allstar for crying out loud.

It's definitely helpful if you explain the trade scenarios in the same post so the audience can relate, kind of like you did above. Just make sure you get your facts straight with the player ages.

 

It's all good, BJM.

Here's a scenario for the risky, but it could be legit on several factors:

Ron Artest is a headcase, you could say that he cost Indiana their chances at a shot for the title.

Larry Bird has shown interest in a small forward like Dunleavy who is an all around player.

Indiana gets Derek Fisher who is probably a better shot than any of their current point guards and is clutch. Only problem is Jermaine O'neil doesn't pass very much out of the post. (doh!)

We would get Anthony Johnson for 3 years (ho-hum). We can draft Felton if he slips and skip going power forward if Diogu, Taft, Splitter aren't on the board anymore. But if that's the case, neither will Felton be available most likely. Between Zarko/Murphy/Foyle/Biedrins, I think our PF/C lineup is pretty much covered anyway (unfortunately because we can't add any low post presence unless we do a trade or we cut down somebody's minutes)

So hard to find pure point guards that can score, that's like finding big men with footwork and inside scoring that can also rebound and block shots and hit midrangers.

So I guess it would be this lineup for the risky:
Warriors
pg: Baron Davis
sg: Jason Richardson
sf: Ron Artest (big gamble here)
pf: Troy Murphy
c: Adonal Foyle

Pacers

pg: Jamal Tinsley
sg: Stephen Jackson
sf: Mike Dunleavy Jr.
pf: Jermaine O'neil
c: Jeff Foster

Pacers get more ball movement, a player with all around game and high basketball IQ and a clutch combo guard.

Warriors basically get Ron Artest who is a good shut-down type of defensive player, can shoot. Only problem is he's crazy.

 

I dunno, I think almost any trade involving Foyle isn't very realistic. I mean Foyle is a serviceable center but I think most teams can find another serviceable center at a cheaper price.

I wouldn't mind Artest but we may have the next Artest in Pietrus, cept Pietrus isn't a nut or as much of a distraction. Artest may be humbled after having to watch from the bench most of the season though, plus if he can keep his head straight he's a steal for his contract.

 

I don't really think Artest will change, but hey the talent is there. I don't know if I'd do it, but if you play Pietrus and Artest together, you have a lockdown defender at guard and small forward.

Pietrus isn't a small forward.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't really think Artest will change, but hey the talent is there. I don't know if I'd do it, but if you play Pietrus and Artest together, you have a lockdown defender at guard and small forward.

Pietrus isn't a small forward.</div>
Pietrus is better at the SF than J-Rich at least. I would not take Artest at any time. Pietrus is really more. He can fly, shoot, play good D, not go crazy on you, and is younger. The differences are big and if Pietrus puts on a few pounds with Dunleavy, he could take over the position at the starting SF

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus is better at the SF than J-Rich at least. I would not take Artest at any time. Pietrus is really more. He can fly, shoot, play good D, not go crazy on you, and is younger. The differences are big and if Pietrus puts on a few pounds with Dunleavy, he could take over the position at the starting SF</div> Pietrus would get killed in the post. If it's not our aim to play any defense, I could see Pietrus playing small forward. But trying to get him to play small forward full time and trying to get the team to play defense isn't a reality. 6'8, 230 or 240 lb small forward would beat him down everytime on both ends.

If he gains bulk, how would that help him against small forwards 6'8 with longer wingspan? You could get Murphy to play center by weighing up, but that's not what he does or is. Pietrus is a 2 guard.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus would get killed in the post. If it's not our aim to play any defense, I could see Pietrus playing small forward. But trying to get him to play small forward full time and trying to get the team to play defense isn't a reality. 6'8, 230 or 240 lb small forward would beat him down everytime on both ends.

If he gains bulk, how would that help him against small forwards 6'8 with longer wingspan? You could get Murphy to play center by weighing up, but that's not what he does or is. Pietrus is a 2 guard.</div>
Would you start J-Rich there? He might be able to deal with them by strength, but he would get beat on D every time

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">Would you start J-Rich there? He might be able to deal with them by strength, but he would get beat on D every time</div>
Judging by how J-Rich held up against Carmelo Anthony, I don't think he could handle it. Those taller guys just shoot right over him and outmuscle him.

Pietrus is fine where he is. Unless he starts complaining about more playing time, I say give it to him. He is fine as the "Ricky Davis" type player off the bench. He gives us balanced scoring when we need it since not all of our starters are going to be scoring all at once.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Judging by how J-Rich held up against Carmelo Anthony, I don't think he could handle it. Those taller guys just shoot right over him and outmuscle him.

Pietrus is fine where he is. Unless he starts complaining about more playing time, I say give it to him. He is fine as the "Ricky Davis" type player off the bench. He gives us balanced scoring when we need it since not all of our starters are going to be scoring all at once.</div>
I'd rather start him than Dunleavy. Dunleavy is just ehh....

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd rather start him than Dunleavy. Dunleavy is just ehh....</div>
Yeah I know

But I'll tell you one thing though, he's our only true small forward. I tend to believe he's kind of stuck up about players that don't know basketball. At least he's playing better with a point guard who knows basketball.

 

Regardless of Pietrus's lack of size at the 3, he still defends better at that spot then anyone else we got. I think his lateral quickness and athleticism make up for his lack of size pretty well. Definetly not a true SF but I like rotating him between the 2 and 3 while coming off the bench and I like having him and Richardson on the floor together.

 

UW, Yeah, I like Pietrus/Jrich on the floor together, but not full time.

I dunno it's tough. If only Pietrus were 6'8, 225 lbs.

 

We will be seeing J Rich and Pietrus togather,for sure,and if it works,it works. Pietrus is not a lot smaller than many SF's,about even with some,but his speed,jumping ability will give him a plus.
Artest ,if he can keep from being totally out of control,can be a plus. The guy is so competitive he had a problem knowing how to shut off his intensity. Good chance he has given that issue a lot of thought. Getting him at,pretty much a fire-sale price could really have an impact.

 

Well I figured anything was possible with getting Dunleavy for Ron Artest. Dun wouldn't be a distraction and his game is pretty much appreciated by and slightly modeled after Pacers GM Larry Bird. Of course we know that Dun lacks the killer instinct and the moxie that could make him great. Do we take a chance on Dun getting better and more confidence and swagger? Or if it's possible, try to get the best perimeter defending allstar in the NBA with a decent contract. I do like the fact that Artest had improved holding onto his temper, but I think the fan throwing beer at him was humiliating enough to make him lose it. I mean I bet a lot of players would have done the same. It's humiliating to get stuff thrown at you and have people laugh at you in front of all these people on TV.

I'm not sure if I'd do the trade, but you got to admire the defensive skill, the mindset not to let people score on him, and the fact he's 6'7, 246 lbs and he manages to stay in front of his guy.

Also, I'm wondering if the Hawks would be willing to part with Boris Diaw-Riffiod for our two second rounders or Rodney White. I don't know what we can get in the second round or what the Hawks take on Diaw is, but I'm sure they see him as a useful player. He can play 4 positions, is athletic, is unselfish, knows how to play the game, is a good defender, and he was a teammate of Pietrus' at Pau Orthez. The downside is he's also passive and can't really shoot that well. But he seems like a useful glue guy that could get to the rim. Is he a potential defensive stopper? I don't know. But any wing player that can't shoot is kind of a turn off. The whole point of the game is to put the ball in the hoop and if you can't shoot, then it kinda sucks for us.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus would get killed in the post. If it's not our aim to play any defense, I could see Pietrus playing small forward. But trying to get him to play small forward full time and trying to get the team to play defense isn't a reality. 6'8, 230 or 240 lb small forward would beat him down everytime on both ends.

If he gains bulk, how would that help him against small forwards 6'8 with longer wingspan? You could get Murphy to play center by weighing up, but that's not what he does or is. Pietrus is a 2 guard.</div>
When I envision us grabbing my boy Ike D,I see him as the answer when there is a bigger SF than Pietrus matches up with. If the opposition is playing real tall,like Gasol at sf,then Zarko might be the guy.
In some cases,say a 6-8,240 f,Pietrus is a bit smaller,but no midget,maybe he gets backed in,but then Foyle is lurking. Meanwhile that 6-8 guy is really getting burned by Pietrus's speed,quickness and range on the other end. Whether it's Pietrus or J Rich,there are quite a few situations when overall the quick guy gets the overall edge. Having seen Pietrus and J Rich beat big guys at the rim,I'm sure they can play some SF. We will want to have options in some circumstances.
Monty will want to stick with a lot of what worked well in the late season. A big part of that was that the W's used 9 or 10 guys a lot,went big,small,worked matchups,but generally looked to be up tempo. They were not too concerned if the other team got 100,so long as the W's got 110.
The trend appears to have shifted,the Suns are not a big team but they are very mobile and can sustain a tempo the bigger teams can't. It works because their "undersize" guys are regularly playing bigger than rivals who have a size advantage. If a 6-7 guy is grabbing more boards,scoring more,defending better than the 6-10 opponent,the size advantage does not mean diddly.
The Nugs were a much improved team this year,yet K-Mart is not a big PF and Camby is certainly a slim C still. We need to look at the whole package,not get too caught up in a few aspects like assuming a 6-10 guy will do the big man stuff better than a 6-9 or 6-8 guy.
We JBB regulars,or the folks doing NBA Draft.Net,Hoopshype,etc won't be deciding who is the real deal on draft day. The Warriors,and other NBA teams have a lot of resources,and $$$ behind them. Even so,someone felt Diop was a future standout,and Darko,and several more,while quite a few of the best were picked way late. That NBA Draft.Net thinks some guy is pick #7,to me is not going to be a real measure of how he will be as a player,or even where he would be picked. Even if I do give much credit to the mock drafts,when comparing them,some players vary 10-15 slots or more. Is McCants borderline lottery-or round 2? Where is Dwayne Jones? With 11.6 rbd per,at 6-11-why is he not on the list,yet Vasquez is often mid lottery without any stats that suggest round 1 talent?
Folks say Diogu? a pick at # 9? yet if I suggested Marvin Williams people would be Oh Yeah! Reality check-Marvin has yet to box out for a rebound and plays D in brief spurts,at best. Marvin was not much of a scorer in traffic for his size,when there were big,able,defenders in the paint,he had no real answer. Diogu attracted crowds yet was among the NCAA scoring leaders and had a 57% fg avg. I would not give you Diogu for Marvin and Martynas A both,which I guess is a good way to express how seriously I take the guessed values often placed on various players.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">When I envision us grabbing my boy Ike D,I see him as the answer when there is a bigger SF than Pietrus matches up with. If the opposition is playing real tall,like Gasol at sf,then Zarko might be the guy.</div> Ike definitely sounds like a tweener then. Might as well trade for Kenny Thomas then Kenny Thomas ain't bad, but would you take him at #9? A guy like that would not be able to handle the small forwards we most likely have problems with and that's the 6'8 variant with ballhandling skills that seem to outquick guys like Ike Diogu.

I didn't know Memphis ever played Pau at small forward? I mean they used to until they found out his range/shot mechanics kind of stink. Unless Zarko has worked on his post defense I don't see him doing much against Gasol in the post or on the glass, because you know with Gasol at small forward, it really means he's playing power forward. He's unlike Dirk, in that Dirk has a really polished face up game with textbook shot mechanics and shooting guard handles. Pau Gasol's typically going to shoot from no greater than 15 feet out and he's going to outmuscle Zarko, unless he does something to bulk up.

As for Diogu guarding Carmelo Anthony/Lebron James/young Glenn Robinson/young Jamal Mashburn I don't know how Diogu guards these players with lack of lateral quickness.

I think I'm off the Diogu camp now if he isn't considered a full time power forward by many. I mean he looked big in college, but I have no clue what this guy will transition into in the NBA. If he's an SF/PF, crap might as well draft Hakim Warrick, just not at #9.

#9, I still think belongs to Splitter and maybe Taft.