On the other hand…

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Boomchakalaka2, Jun 6, 2024.

  1. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    It was a play to keep Dame. It was a significant add. If we could have added an all star level player to put next to to Dame, Grant, and Ayton we could have tried to make a run... Maybe we could have talked Hart into staying.

    So Dame, Hart, Brown/Bridges/OG, Grant, Ayton.
     
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  2. Boomchakalaka2

    Boomchakalaka2 Member

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    Of course not. The “rebuild” became a concept as soon as Scoot Henderson became a possibility with the #3 pick. Jody must have whispered in Cronin’s ear that it was time to move on from paying Dame over $50 million a year for four more years. Cronin, to his credit, was able to get some value back from the Dame trade and didn’t cave to the Miami weak proposals. But I don’t believe that Cronin was thinking we could build a title around Grant or Ayton per se. I do believe he sees Ayton as a piece of the rebuild puzzle, but Grant, Thybulle, Williams and Brogdan are all parts to trade off over the next two years.


     
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  3. Boomchakalaka2

    Boomchakalaka2 Member

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    Partially what I’m saying. I’ve only suggested we trade Ant and Thybuile to acquire a PF (Julius Randle) to strengthen our frontcourt for a year or two allowing Scoot and Sharpe to be in a better environment. Tanking is not working for us! Should have had the third pick this year, after all. Shoot, next year we can trade a Grant, Randle, Williams, Brogdan and get into the 2025 lottery - better odds than tanking. Tanking is disgusting and the league should penalize teams that create the fake injuries, etc. all for the sake of tanking. It’s a black eye to the NBA and not fair to the paying fans.
     
  4. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Exactly. Goes to my point to Bones, who is among those saying we did Dame dirty while simultaneously saying we did what Dame wanted.

    And ... if, as Bones is saying, Grant's not a good enough player to make a team decent without a some really good players around him, then how the heck can anyone keep blasting the organization for things like not trading all our draft picks for players that so far as we know weren't available and might not have made any more of a dent in the quality of our team than Grant made. (EDIT: Neither Bridges no OG have ever been all-stars and there's nothing solid to suggest the Blazers were getting Jaylen Brown ... they couldn't even get Siakam).

    You can have both. You can love or admire Dame without making stuff up to carry water for him in a thread that's talking about the best way to move forward and didn't mention Lillard at all.
     
  5. HoopsFanAZ

    HoopsFanAZ Well-Known Member

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    According to Spotrac:

    Grant — 3 years + p-opt / 29.8, 32, 34.2, 36.4 (in millions)
    Simons — 2 years / 25.9, 27.7
    Brogdon — 1 year / 22.5
    Time Lord — 2 years / 12.4, 13.3
    Thybulle — 1 + p-opt / 11.0, 11.6
    Ayton — 2 years / 34, 35.6

    Providing the numbers of the vets for purpose of discussion and trade timelines. Brogdon is trade him by February if he’s to be traded (to a playoff team who could use him, for instance and IMHO).

    If the team is “healthy” and as constructed + 2 lottery picks … and jettison any needed, lesser contracts for roster spots … then they win too many games to get a dude in the ‘25 draft.
     
  6. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I think the Blazers with Olshey definitely did Dame dirty while trying to do what he wanted. I think Cronin 100% tried to build a strong team around Dame. But I just don't think the opportunity presented itself in time.
     
  7. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Essentially giving a kid the all-chocolate diet he wanted rather than making the more prudent moves, yes. I don't know if I'd say Olshey did Dame dirty. I definitely think he did Dame and the Blazers both a disservice, though.
     
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  8. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    To build around Dame. Now that Dames gone, we're rebuilding and shouldn't value pieces like Julius Randle over draft capital.
     
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  9. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    If Cronin tried his best, that's scary.
     
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  10. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Please, then, Torey. Tell us who he could have gotten but didn't get for that pick.

    I'm disappointed Cronin didn't trade for Prime Wilt, Dr. J and Tim Duncan using the third pick as the lure.
     
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  11. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Yeah, that's only a halfway intellectually honest answer. As others already have pointed out, Dame wanted Grant.

    We kept doing Dame dirty by bringing in his guys. Oh, the horror.
     
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  12. Boomchakalaka2

    Boomchakalaka2 Member

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    Win games! Win lots of games! What better environment for Scoot and Sharp to mature in!
     
  13. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    What is an example of when Olshey "did Dame dirty"? Now I question the DameCJ duo was the best way to build a winner, and Olshey had plenty of bad roster moves. But just making bad moves doesn't mean he "did Dame dirty" it might just mean he's not a good GM.

    Now I do think catering to Dame's desires such as him wanting to play with CJ, having his cousin on the team, not trading Nurk for Ayton, etc. was a disservice to the Blazers and harmed Dame's ability to be part of a winner. But I hold Dame and Olshey equally responsible for that dynamic.
     
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  14. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    If you're convinced that Scoot and Shaedon are for sure the first and second best players on a championship team then this should be your approach. If all we need are role players around these two then your approach makes sense.

    I really like Shaedon and Scoot but I'm not sure what they end up being yet, so for me I think it's still time to try and give our team as many chances at landing a perennial MVP contending superstar as we can. So my primary concern for this upcoming season would be acquiring as much young talent as possible and give only that young talent the playing time to try and figure out what roles they might fill in the future.

    That most likely would result in a pretty low win percentage, not very many wins at all but I think playing the whole season and playing hard every night without having to sit any of your best players for the last month or two of the season might be a better environment to build a winning culture than bringing in guys just below all star level so we can win less than every other game and still probably not get any playoff experience, while hurting our chances of having the most options in the 2025 draft.
     
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  15. Boomchakalaka2

    Boomchakalaka2 Member

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    Draft capital can come from Julius Randle, from Grant, Brogdan and from Williams, provided he plays and proves he’s healthy. We want draft picks in 2025 and 2026! Be patient and the rebuild will happen - it is happening. We don’t need to “tank” anymore! This draft should produce a wing. Not another guard. We need Risacher and should package 7 & 14 and whatever else makes it tick and get to #2 or #3.

    If Risacher goes #1, then we pick Sarr. And if Sarr is gone, take Conigan. What we do with Sarr or Conigan? We can cross that bridge if it comes. But my plan would be to trade up for Risacher and get a win for this year’s draft.

    and don’t forget that we have to trade Ant with Thybulle and go after a PF vet with a good and tradable contract in a year. Randle is my choice.
     
  16. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    What else was available?
     
  17. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Losing Aldridge without a return. 2016 free agency. Refusing to trade CJ for a better fit.

    Really... Do I need to keep going on? Olshey was an absolute catastrophe.

    I'm not interested in arguing semantics. Olshey fucked Dame.
     
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  18. Boomchakalaka2

    Boomchakalaka2 Member

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    We need Scoot and Sharpe to convince us that they are part of a championship starting five. And I truly believe we must package our picks and trade up, targeting a wing. This player can understudy with Grant and then we can trade Grant a year from now or at the trade deadline if we are not in playoff contention. Next year and the year after we target PF and then a Center. Ayton is now 25 and under contract, so Center should be the final piece of the puzzle. Making the playoffs will be a good experience for Scoot, Sharp and Risacher (if we get him of course) and this time next year we start assessing players, starting with Scoot and Sharpe. Are they our guards of the future? If not, keep building until we get it right.
     
  19. Boomchakalaka2

    Boomchakalaka2 Member

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    Question:

    When do we know if Scoot is a bust or if he’s our PG of the future?
     
  20. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    If he's not a legit starter with an advantage most nights within 3-4 years or so...
     

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