No, but Longley couldn't guard Shaq either and the Bulls swept the Magic pretty easily. Their team defense was amazing, with Pippen, Jordan, Rodman and Harper. All stand-out team defenders. I think the Rockets would have given the Bulls their toughest Finals matchups, but I'd have definitely favoured the Bulls in that matchup. Would have been great to watch, though!
I have to agree people keep talking about competition. Hakeem destroyed the Admiral, owned Ewing, punked O'neal and would have won an absolute crapload of rings if he had had some decent perimeter help. He also happened to live during the era of the G.O.A.T and the minute MJ enters the equation you can just throw sanity out the window. Kobe wouldn't have a ring if he was in MJ's era neither would anyone else when MJ was in his prime. So seriously look at the level of competition. Hakeem played in the golden age of NBA big men and dominated them all and he was only 6'11". No center has ever shown the skill and footwork that Hakeem showed. I've never seen a big man quite so dominant, if only we had won that coin toss or not talked to him it would have been Hakeem/Drexler vs. MJ for a decade. Wilt was truly amazing but we can never know how he would have played against top flight NBA centers or even a modern Power Forward. He did play against Russell so that's obviously impressive, apparently winning the head to head matchups. It's a shame Wilt isn't from the modern era. Russel was a defensive great and my god the rings but again a different era. Kareem is arguably more skilled then Hakeem but it is damn close. Kareem also didn't play against the kind of competition that Hakeem faced and destroyed. Lastly, Shaq's dominance is owed at least a bit to the fact that he NEVER faced quality competition at the 5 after his first 3 or so years in the league. Shaq was the only big man worth a damn in the game during his era for crying out loud the shell of Arvydas Sabonis held him better then anyone else. Sabas also deserves honorable mention for his pre-injury days where he was truly incredible, but again we can't know for certain that he would have crushed the likes of Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem and Shaq because of the injury and staying in Europe. When considering the level of competition, the skill set and the kind of players around him you have to go with the Dream.
I don't really think there was any dominant competition for the Bulls in the 90's. You have Jordan and then you add him to a team that won 55 games without him. The 80s were more competitive team-wise.
Why isn't Greg Oden on that list? For me, I said Hakeem Olajuwon. He was the most graceful and yet dominant center I remember watching. The dream shake was a thing of beauty and it often showed just how agile he was. Fantastic player on both ends always fun to watch. He may not have had the success of other big centers, but I feel he had the most skill and athleticism. I'll always remember the time he sank a three during the all-star game right after Shaq tried one and failed miserably. Couldn't have made me happier since I down right hated Shaq back then. Also, when he had a come-from-out-of-nowhere block on a Rod Strickland layup during the playoffs one year. At least I think it was Strickland.
Olajuwon is high among the career leaders in steals. That always amuses me. He was cat quick on defense and might just take it away from you. And not just from stone-handed big guys...I saw him swipe the ball from a slashing guard/wing a fair amount. He was a freak.
Replace "that" with "how badly" and you'd be right. Watching a broken down Sabonis was truly astonishing. No big man has ever had the court vision and passing ability that he had. On top of that, the guy had range and could hit any kind of shot he was given. It's INCREDIBLY sad we were never blessed with the opportunity of seeing him in Portland during his prime. I bet anything MJ wouldn't have six rings right now.
Yeah I agree with that, but we can't say it with certainty. I definitely think Sabas instead of Dukworth = Dynasty with MJ taking a few.
Luckily we got to see Olajuwan and Robinson go head-to-head when they were both at / near their peaks. Robinson was a great center, but I don't think he was in the same category as Olajuwan. Which playoff series was it that Olajuwan absolutely DESTROYED Robinson? Hakeem made Robinson look pretty average. We missed a peak Olajuwon versus a peak Shaq by a few years. That one is a tough call for me. Shaq clearly had the size and power advantage, but Olajuwon had the clear advantage with respect to skill, agility and speed. I might have to give the nod to Olajuwon there also.
A TP Clyde Kersey Cliff and Dream team would have had Mike shrugging for other reasons. I heard an anecdote from HOFer Bob Lanier on Wilt. He recalled boxing out Wilt on a play only to have Mr. 20,000 put a hand under his armpit and lift him up off the ground and place him aside "like I was a toy". Bob's listed playing weight was 250lbs. Wilt was a 7'1 gazelle/ox... a little before my time, but I'm thinking he could have survived KG. STOMP
Sorry brother. What Wilt accomplished was amazing. BUT............... The "Centers" back in the day were like 6'8 slow-ass white-guys( Mark Madsen type) I voted for Kareem, but could you imagine what Shaq would have done to those guys if he got to play them night in and night out.
One playoff series doesn't prove a lot, though it was a bad highlight (lowlight?) for Robinson. I have a head-to-head comparison document that someone made once for Olajwuon, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing and Mutombo. Against Robinson, Olajuwon averaged 26.3 ppg, 47.6%. But against Shaq, he averaged 27.8 ppg, 46.6% and against Ewing, he averaged 26.3 ppg, 51.1%. Robinson averaged 22.1 ppg, 46.8% against Olajuwon, Shaq averaged 23.9 ppg, 57.6% against Olajuwon and Ewing averaged 20.7 ppg, 41%. Rebounding isn't in the chart, unfortunately. So yes, Olajuwon did win the matchup against Robinson, but he also defeated Shaq head-to-head by similar margin. I guess this is evidence that Olajuwon was pretty damn good. I don't think it diminishes Robinson much, though, unless we also say Shaq was not in the same category. I think all three (Olajuwon, Shaq and Robinson) were in the same category, but Olajuwon was tops and Shaq was second. And that's how I have them ranked too.
I don't think those stats are quite fair to Shaq though. He wasn't at his peak or prime when he was going head-to-head with peak / prime Robinson and Olajuwon. I would say that Olajuwon and Shaq are much closer to each other (regardless of who is higher) than Robinson is to either one of them.
Not precisely his peak, but I would say it was within his prime. His peak was roughly 1997-2002, but his prime was basically from 1993 until his decline. He was putting up a 28.5 PER in his second season...! Also, it's worth noting that his defensive and offensive peaks were at essentially different times. He was a much better defender earlier on in his career, as a member of the Magic. Then he went to LA, began getting bigger and (IMO) lazier on defense and his defense suffered. So I think the numbers are relatively fair to Shaq.
Sorry brother, but that's totally inaccurate. First of all, Russell is the greatest defensive player ever, and Wilt played him like 20 times a year, counting the playoffs. Nate Thurmond was a stud. Wilt played against a young Kareem (Lew Alcindor), Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy...
besides Bill Russell, here are a few HOF examples that run counter to your depiction of what it was like back in Wilt's day. Of course there were far fewer teams as well. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thurmna01.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reedwi01.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laniebo01.html STOMP
If one looks at PER, there are some interesting numbers. Wilt led the league in PER 8 of 9 years from '60-'68. Kareem did it 9 of 11 years from '71-'81. Robinson did from 3 straight years '94-'96, and Shaq did 5 straight from '98-'02. Hakeem and Russell never did (not surprising, as they were more defensive centers). From '94-'03, Shaq posted a PER of 28.5 or higher 8 times, as many as Wilt and Kareem combined. And even despite the past 4 years of decline, Shaq's career PER of 26.9 is higher than anyone else on this list--second all-time behind only Jordan. I think it's very possible that many of us (including myself) are giving Shaq short-schrift in this discussion.
Worth noting that Robinson's is 26.2, so essentially identical. And Robinson was definitely considered a much superior defender.
Arvydas Sabonis. Not very close seconds are Bill Walton and Hakeem Olajuwan. Then there are the guys who faced much less talent: Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Moses, Parish. Then there is Shaq who was simply allowed to foul with impunity every time he touched the ball. Then David Robinson who was also very highly favored by the refs. But Sabas, Bill and Hakeem were the only real deals this league has ever seen at the C.
In my mind, the fact that Robinson never led a team to a title is a HUGE knock against him in this discussion, so I didn't even consider him.
