I didn't say that Jordan didn't play with another star. I said he didn't play with an offensive presence in the post. He absolutely NO ONE to throw it to inside. NO ONE. Kobe had Shaq and Pau. Do you know how hard it is to win without a post scorer??? It's almost impossible and Jordan did it SIX TIMES.
You truly are the master or irrelevant stats... It should have been plainly obvious that I was referring to the roughly two years Jordan was playing baseball. Returning for the last month of the season and a so-so playoff run didn't exactly have any effect on Hakeem's second title.
Apparently, you didn't see Hakeem's series against the Spurs in 1995. It was the most dominant performance in a playoff series I have ever seen and I've watched for the last 20 years. David Robinson was the MVP that year and Hakeem completely dominanted him. It was unbelievable. He is not overrated.
I can't believe this thread has gone on for 4 pages. Holy shit. First, Kobe Bryant isn't better than Michael Jordan. I think people often overrate Jordan and his abilities, but no, Kobe isn't better or on the same level. Though I will admit Kobe one fire is probably hotter than just about anyone in the league ever, but that's not enough to say his overall body of work is better than Jordan's. No matter the era, i'm one of the few who think stats don't tell the whole story, and though Kobe will probably be a top 10 (MAYBE a top 5 player, but that'll be difficult) player ever, I just don't believe he'll catch up, much less surpass Jordan. And secondly, KingSpeed, if you feel so strongly about Kobe not being better, and as "so sure it's not even close" then why the hell would you make a thread about it? It's obvious: to get some attention and anger some Kobe Bryant fans. You should be above this, what are you, 10? C'mon bro.
Some of you guys and your hate/love for a player--as much as to cloud your views on the guy and what he's done--is crazy.
I'm not questioning Kobe's abilities. If you were around here long enough, you would know that I'm one of the bigger Kobe supporters/defenders in the Blazers forum. Although Minstrel is right up there with me I'm just saying yes he is past his prime. But I guess any "kid" can see that.
I'm not sure I would go that far, I'm sure it was an impressive series. Drexler had more playoff win shares in that title run. Hakeem had an extremely high usage rate that year. Being able to produce a high PER on fewer touches is something WS takes into account. As well as various other factors.
Kobe has choked so many times,it's ridiculous. Highlights: Kobe airballing 4 shots at the end of a must win game against the Jazz in 97. Kobe refusing to shot in the second half against the Suns in Game 7 in 2006. Jordan NEVER did that. Kobe GAGGING on the biggest game of his career at the time- Game 6 in Boston in the NBA Finals. Kobe scored 22 pts on 7 of 21 shooting and he let his team lose by 39 points. Jordan never did that. As for LeBron, he led his team to the NBA Finals in his 4th year out of high school with no other All Star on his team When Kobe had no other All Star on his team (see 2005), he didn't even make the playoffs.
Whether or not Kobe is better than Jordan is a conversation out there in the media. I decided to take that conversation to this message board to get other people's thoughts. Isn't that was this board is for? Speaking of age, how old were the Kobe supporters back when Jordan was in his prime? I don't blame them for their confusion if they weren't old enough to remember the games.
Did you watch the series? If you didn't watch the series, then you have no idea what you're talking about. None. I saw it. It was incredible. Complete domination. He scored at will with his dream shake. It was the best I've seen any player play in a single playoff series and I saw all of the Jordan series. Jordan was amazing in the 1993 series vs the Suns and the 1997 series vs the Jazz. It's also debatable that Wade's series vs the Mavs in 2006 was one of the top 3 NBA Finals performances ever.
I don't think one should judge performance on just subjective qualities. That's exactly what you're criticizing Kobe fans for.
Before putting Kobe anywhere near the discussion of GOAT, it should be clear that Kobe is even the best player in the league, at any point in his career. It isn't clear. So, IMO, the debate ends there. I don't think Kobe has ever been the most dominant player in the league during his career (Shaq, Lebron), how could he even be considered for GOAT?
I disagree. There was probably a a 2-3 year span where he was the most dominant player, but yeah, I agree with everything else you said. I'd probably put him at 10-11 on the GOAT list right now, and he'll end off in the top 10 for sure, MAYBE top 5 (but I doubt it). Trying not to sound like a Kobe hater (i'm a so-so onlooker, than a "fan"), I will say that the arguement 'Jordan never lost in the finals' is rather dubious. All that shows me is that Jordan didn't make the finals those other years.
