I'm not so sure Kobe is the 5th best Laker of all time, let alone 5th best player in history. Kareem, Magic, West, Baylor, Wilt and Shaq make 6 I'd say were better, off the top of my head.
I'd put at least Abdul-Jabbar, Magic and Shaq ahead of Kobe. I'd say that he was in the same tier as West and Baylor. A lot of people forget or are unaware how dominant Baylor was in his prime.
How can you not include Wilt? If Jordan isn't the GOAT, then Wilt is. West was all nba defensive 1st team up until he retired, and put up Jordan like numbers for his career. Baylor was Dr. J decades before Dr. J was a pro, 10 time all nba 1st team.
Are you saying their careers as a Laker? If so, i'd only put Magic and maybe Kareem ahead of Kobe. Kobe imo is probably a notch above Shaq, Baylor and West.
Oh well even then i'd probably only put Wilt, Kareem and Magic ahead and Shaq at the same level. West and Baylor aren't far behind though. Some of these guys who say Kobe is easily top 10 are ridiculous. He's at the top 10-15 range at this point.
There are a few players I think are at Kobe's level who were never blessed with an even better player on the team. Dominique Wilkins comes to mind.
Yeah... and jordan didn't win his 6 rings with help from his teammates (pippen/kukoc/kerr/rodman) either.
Jordan had Pippen who you can argue is as good as Gasol talent wise, but Jordan never had a Shaq, a top 5 center of all time, who destroyed defenses during his 3 championships. So basically Jordan did a whole lot more with less talent around him.
Accident. I meant to include him. As I said earlier in the thread, I consider Jordan, Chamberlain and Robertson to be the three best players ever.
Pippen was a significantly better player than Gasol. He definitely wasn't Shaq, but he was one of the best players of his generation. Likely the greatest perimeter defender ever and one of the best all-around players ever.
Whole lot more with less talent? Rodman was arguably the greatest rebounder ever who was an excellent defender. Jordan also had a fantastic supporting cast. No team was better at knowing their roles.
When you start putting Rodman and Grant in the same category as Shaq, then it's time to give up your argument.
