OT: The "Euro" Raptors?

Teams that have to travel that night struggle to get enough rest for a noon or 1PM game. Especially Western Conference teams. My favourite instance of that happening was when we faced Golden State last year. A bunch of their core looked absolutely out of it during the game. Later it came out that they had celebrated Baron's bday (got drunk), then travelled, then played a really early game.

 

I think it's interesting how quickly they gave up on him after they raved about him in summer league.

 

In addition to the travel time, there is also the 3 hour time difference for west coast teams. So, wen the Blazers play the Raptors on the 1st game of a road trip with a noon start time, that feels like 9:00am for them.

BNM

 

You know that one of Nowitzki's nicknames is DD... right?

 

Yes it does. That is a BAD team. They won't stop anybody. A team like that will hang around for most of the game for most of their games, only to succumb at the end because the other team's star will get whatever shots they like. Pathetic.

 

Well as others mentioned, it would kind of be like a broke-man's SSOL Sun's team, which I found very entertaining (and they won games). The Suns didn't have any good defenders outside of Marion either really. I think it would be fun to watch, at the very least. I wasn't saying their a contender by any means.

 

clearly the league is being stratified between the haves and the have-nots. cleveland, orlando and boston are the class of the east and atl, washington, miami and toronto are a few notches behind. in that second tier- i think tor has a legit chance to get the fourth seed. why? cause they have more depth than the other three and in a 82 game season- depth matters. plus, the superstar in miami and agent zero both have well chronicled injury histories.

back to the new jersey series- i know u might think i suffer from a bout of homerism but i guarantee u that the raps should of won that series. the raps all but won the decisive game sixth but caledron throw an errant (really bad) pass which should have connected with chris bosh for a wide open layup. that would have meant game seven at home for toronto and as u know- home teams have historically dominated games sevens.

notwithstanding all the optimism from raptor nation- i agree, the raps are at best a second round team.

 

They certainly look to be better than the team that won 33 games and missed the play-offs last season. I suspect they will win 40 - 45 games - which in the East will be good for a 6th - 8th seed.

They should be fun to watch. Lots of scoring at both ends. - kind of like an all-star game without the stars.

Teams that run high paced "gimick" offenses tend to overachieve during the regular season, but underachieve in the play-offs. During the regular season, with so many games, rarely playing the same team twice in a row, and few days to prepare between games, teams that play an unconventional style tend to steal several games against "better" teams. In the post season, when you play the same team 4 - 7 games in a row and have multiple days off between games to prepare it's easy to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. The only SSOL team that has had any success in the post season was the Suns - and even they underperformed in the post season relative to their regular season results.

So, an unconventional offense can win you more regular season games, which can help land a higher play-off seed, but teams that don't rebound and play defense get exploited in the post season. That's exactly what I expect from this Toronto team - a decent regular season record and a quick 1st round exit.

BNM

 

Raja Bell was a key defender for the Suns, after the Joe Johnson era.

The Suns were pretty unique.

Nash was a ridiculously good shooter. From all spots on the floor. Set. Moving. Falling away.

Calderon is not as good as a shooter.

Nash is a phenom with his dribble and passing.

Calderon is good. Just not as good.

Bosh is a good player, and more well rounded. But, he isn't Amare on the offensive end.

Amare (at his peak, which coincided with Sun's peak), attacked the paint like no other.

That combination of Nash and Amare, surrounded by some decent role players that couldn't be completely ignored, made the Nash/Amare pick and roll the deadliest offensive weapon in the NBA. There wasn't anything like it.

So, you start with an MVP point guard, a near MVP caliber (offensively) big, and build on that with a couple of nice complementary players who don't need to have the ball to help the team: Marion and Raja Bell. That makes for a very good team.

The Raptors don't have a duo anything near as good as Nash/Amare. Nor do they guys who contribute without the ball that were as good as Raja (defense, making wide open threes) or Marion (defense, rebounding, running the floor).

At least they got their Boris Diaw replacement in Turk.

Again, the Raptors have no hope to come close to the Dantoni Suns.

The motor is driven by Nash. They don't have a Nash. So it starts to breakdown as soon as you start the engine. Then, Bosh isn't the same kind of inside force offensively that Amare was. This means the defenses can stay home a little more. This reduces the impact of the role players and shooters. And so on.

Now we get to the defense. It is mythology that the Suns had a BAD defensive team. They did not. They were not a top defensive team. There is a big difference. Overall they were middle of the pack defensively. Their PPS allowed ranking averaged 15th. It was their ppg against that fooled some people.

They played team defense to make up for their weak defenders. They had two good defenders in Marion and Bell. They suckered many teams into taking bad shots - which is defense of a sort. Who on the Raptors is as good defensively as Marion and Bell? I think the Raptors will be a bad defensive team. Not as good offensively as the Suns were. Worse defensively. How can this work well?

 

I remember that game and agree that Toronto should have won that game and won the series. However, my point is it shouldn't have come down to that one play. If Toronto would have rebounded better, the game would not have been that close and would not have come down to one errant pass to determine the outcome of the the series.

As an outsider, I see them as, at best, a first round team.

BNM

 

All good points. I think the Raptors will play a similar style, but will be inferior in all ways to that Suns team. They will be inferior offensively. They have similar weapons, but lesser talent. And, I agree their defense will be much worse - especially on the permitter where the Sunds had Marion and Bell. I remember watching the Suns dismantle the Blazers back then. Nash totally picked apart the Blazers defense and it seemed like every Phoenix possession ended in a wide open shot. On the other end, Marion (who even guarded the Blazers PGs at times) and Bell did a great job closing out on teh Blazers shooters. So, while the Suns were getting wide open shots, the Blazers were often forcing shots with a hand in their face. Marion's length, in particular, made things difficult for the Blazers perimeter shooters.

Ironic that the Raptors had Marion and let him slip away. I know his stats have been down since he left the Suns, but he would esily be the Raptors best perimeter defender and was their best rebounder (for his position) for them last season.

So, where the Suns were winning 60 games and making it to the Conference Finals. I see these Raptors winning 40 - 45 games and getting bounced in the 1st round. And, if Bosh leaves next summer, this might be their best chance at advancing past the 1st round for the next several years. They've made a lot of moves, and I think they have definitely improved their team. However, they have committed a ton of salary to a roster that is ill suited to post season success.

BNM

 

that's why i said 50 wins was possible only if everything goes right.

 

i missed them signing him. he's definitely a better option than obryant.

 

What depth?

 

look above. they have a quality backup at every position