Zombie OT: Zion

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by THE HCP, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    I respectfully disagree. I don't think all signs point to him being a negative defender. He works hard, and plays with a lot of energy. On an NBA team, he wouldn't have to do literally everything for their offense so he'd probably have more energy to expend on defense. He'll also add a little bit of strength and be better for it.

    I think his form is conducive for success as a pull up shooter. Smooth, One-motion shot, quick release, able to transfer energy, and able to shoot it with a good, consistent rhythm. He seems like the guy who was so athletic and quick that he didn't really worry about his shooting until he got to college. He's seemed to have improved throughout the season in that department.
     
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  2. JDC

    JDC Well-Known Member

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    This is all fair, although I still think it's hard to explain away some of his defensive struggles due to role when you're drafting him to play a similar one in the NBA and if he doesn't, he's likely not hitting his upside offensively.

    But I agree that the pull-up shooting could get there, just differ on the degree in which it does. I don't like his mechanics as much as you do (he's a natural lefty and it shows) and I don't think he'll have the type of versatility or ability to hit shots fading away or from difficult angles like the elite offensive guards do (and he may not need to with his athleticism/quickness).

    But who knows, guys develop in unsuspecting ways sometimes and Ja seems like a kid where that could be more likely than you'd expect with just any prospect.

    Excited to see how things go for him.
     
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  3. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Dead serious question here. I was so busy tonight with work I didn’t see how Zion did? And most importantly was it against quality competition?
     
  4. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    ?
     
  5. Driew

    Driew Well-Known Member

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    HCP trolling haha
     
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  6. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Is that what that’s called FAMS?
     
  7. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    The more I watch Zion, the more I question how his game translates to the next level.

    First, he's not a tweener. He's a four. Yes, he can shoot the 3, but a big part of that is attached to the fact that he's such a Mack truck driving to the hoop that he gets a lot of room to take that shot. He's definitely an explosive athlete vertically. But what about laterally? Can he defend the dribble? Can he defend on the perimeter? When he has the ball, can he change directions? I haven't seen enough example of that to be confident he can, and he's going to have to do that to play much if any 3 at the next level. Can he shoot off the dribble? Can he create for others? He has to do that stuff to play the 3.

    Then the body type ... it scares me, if I am a team drafting him. He is so top heavy and looks like he has the potential to get heavier. Can his legs, and, most importantly, his knees and ankles, take the kind of pounding that's going to be put on them for 82 games a year plus playoffs?

    I just see the potential for him to be this phenom who could physically dominate at the college level but whose liabilities will be magnified greatly in the NBA. He'll be a highlight reel like Blake Griffin was when he first came into the league, but I don't know if he has Blake's ability to reshape his game. I think he might have to reshape his body to have longevity in the NBA, too, and I think his weight and power are the big advantage that he loses in doing that.

    I just don't think I am looking at a generational talent when I see him. I don't see a guy I think can be as good as Durant or Giannis right now, let alone a player whose game compares to LeBron.

    I keep thinking I am seeing a more explosive Larry Johnson or a shorter Amar'e Stoudemire. That's really good, but it falls short of elite, IMO.
     
  8. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Usually theres a point to his trolling though.
     
  9. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I have a lot of the same questions. I will say if he figures out the jump shot and is in the right system defensively he’s gonna be really good (in my opinion).
     
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  10. GhostOfPGA

    GhostOfPGA The late great Paul Allen

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    Zion’s game will translate because he is a transcendent talent. I’m sure he will sculpt his body better in the NBA and will add to his offensive repertoire.

    I just hope he doesn’t get unlucky and get Ewing’d with the Knicks. I much rather see him play with Trae Young and John Collins in Atlanta or in Chicago with Zach LaVine and Lauri Markkanen.
     
  11. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    It will help.

    As a coach and a scout, though, I always found that one of the most underrated and underdeveloped facets of athleticism when it came to making a great basketball player was flexibility. Yeah, I am looking for strength, speed, and explosiveness, as someone mentioned above, but I also am looking for light feet, soft hands, and coordination. I think what set Michael Jordan apart -- aside from a drive second to none -- was uncanny body control, an ability to change angles and direction and adjust in the air, to minimize contact and still get off a good shot. I often encourage parents of young players to get their kids involved in dance or gymnastics as a way to help develop that.

    I watched Zion multiple times in the last two games NOT be able to do that. He was called for at least two charges and probably could have been called for two others. While he recovered well for a block last night in short spaces, on the perimeter he has a lot of trouble with defending quick-twitch movement.

    We tend to think of his explosiveness in his leaping/dunking. He has rare vertical explosiveness. But his lateral explosiveness appears very average to me.

    I see a lot of Amar'e when I watch him. A little shorter but more physically strong. But I think all that bulk is going to work against him eventually.
     
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  12. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    I'm not buying that yet for the reasons I outlined above. He's spectacular in some very eye-catching respects, and he has a media machine that lives on highlight clips. I remember similar talk about Blake Griffin.

    I'll wait to see how he develops in two or three years of NBA play before I call him "transcendent" or "generational."
     
  13. joeBlazers

    joeBlazers Well-Known Member

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    Why does Zion remind me of Thomas Robinson? Yes, that Robinson that was #5 pick by Sacramento Kings and played for the Blazers for a couple of years. Ended up a Lakers and China league.
    Zion is a more athletic and Undersized PF. Zion is not a SF, not a Center. He will be post-up every night by PF and Centers and outpaced by SF and Guards in the NBA.
     
  14. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Every time I watch Duke play I question why Zion doesn't shoot more. Last game they only won by 2 and he was 11-14 from the field. The game he came back he didn't miss but only took 13 shots?

    Does he purposely pass up shots to keep his percentages high? If so, this doesn't bode well for him on the next level because he won't get as many easy looks.

    Does he have trouble getting shots off against good defense? If so, this also doesn't bode well for him at the next level because he won't just be able to use his athleticism to get by.

    Does Coach K not run enough plays for him? If so, why is that the case?

    This isn't meant to bash Zion. He should be the #1 pick. I just find it curious why someone so physically dominating isn't getting more shots in close games.
     
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  15. tlongII

    tlongII Legendary Poster

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    It’s because they have a lot of other blue chip recruits.
     
  16. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I don't buy that logic at all.

    Cam Reddish has been terrible on offense. Tre Jones hasn't shot well this year either. RJ Barrett is a high volume scorer but not super efficient.

    Zion shoots 75% on 2 point FG's and has an insane 70% true shooting %. He should be taking more than 13 shots.
     
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  17. tlongII

    tlongII Legendary Poster

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    You have to give the other guys shots. It’s what you recruited them for.
     
  18. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Michael Jordan didn't get a ton of shots per game, even in his junior season when he was the clearly best offensive player on his team and, to most people, the best player in college basketball, because Dean Smith didn't believe in having one player dominate the offense. Mike Krzyzewski is very similar in that regard. He rarely empowers his best player to just take over and dominate the offense.
     
  19. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    I hate to question a legendary coach like Coach K or Dean Smith, but Duke has barely survived the last two games and Jordan (after they won the championship his Freshman year) never made it back to the Final Four.

    Zion makes 3 out of every 4 shots he makes inside the 3 point line. Is the object to win games or make sure everyone gets their fair share of shots, even if they don't deserve it?
     
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  20. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I agree with you. Sometimes, I wonder if certain college coaches are less focused on winning at all (ethical) costs and fetishize "playing the right way." I mean, there are pro coaches like Pop and Kerr, among others, who place a real premium on ball movement and getting everyone involved, but when push came to shove, guys like Curry, Durant, Duncan still got the lion's share of the shots. I wouldn't be surprised if coaches like Dean Smith and Mike Krzyzewski place such an emphasis on a certain team-based ethos that they'd rather lose their way than win by riding a top star.
     

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