OT: Zion

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by THE HCP, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. handiman

    handiman Well-Known Member

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    From the few games I've watched, it seems like he doesn't have a good sense of how to run an offensive set and just sort of floats out there, waiting for explosive highlight reel plays. He probably never had the slightest hint of a physical challenge in HS, and many one-and-doners struggle with learning the system, so a lot of that may be new to him. It's a mild concern, but not a red flag.

    What about the play in the first half yesterday, where he went up for either a lob pass or errant shot (who can tell with Duke?!) ... facing away from the hoop ... and twisted in mid-air for the easy layup? I agree with all your points above, except for the one about Zion lacking in that area. That looks like a strength to me, not a weakness.
     
  2. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    It's one example. Overall, I just have seen a lot more examples where he lacks it than when he shows it. I can hit a couple of shots from the logo, too, but if I shoot 33 percent at the foul line, it kind of overrides the outlier.
     
  3. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    On the opposite side of the spectrum, how Carsen Edwards doesn't get more attention for the draft is beyond me. He shoots well off the dribble with range. He can get to the hoop. I think he's Kemba Walker.
     
  4. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    I think another part of this is where his shots are coming from. They are mostly dunks and layups. He's not breaking down guys off the dribble facing the basket, and, at least at the college level, he requires a double-team down on the block because of his awesome strength.
     
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  5. handiman

    handiman Well-Known Member

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    Making a lucky shot and pulling off a difficult physical maneuver are very different things. If you can show it on occasion, you have it.
     
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  6. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    His low post game is off the charts man. He has up and under moves that would make Kevin McHale proud.
     
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  7. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    I don't think that's really true. In fact, I think just saying what you did -- "If you can show it on occasion ..." -- OK, so why does he not show it on more occasions when he needs it? I think it comes down to being able to do something vs. being able to do something somewhat consistently.
     
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  8. HAAK72

    HAAK72 Well-Known Member

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    ...looks more like a Shabazz Napier to me :dunno:
     
  9. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    Kevin McHale was three inches taller playing in a different time when bigs had a different role. Is he going to be able to handle someone line Giannis in the paint? Is he going to be able to guard KD? Can he match up with LeBron? Heck, what's he going to do against LMA or Porzingis or Doncic or players like that? To be a "generational" or "transcendant" talent, I think a player has to be clearly the best at his position.

    I'm not saying he's not going to be a really good pro, but that he's got a lot of question marks in his game that get overlooked because he makes these highlight reel dunks and blocks. Blake Griffin was a similar case, and Amar'e. Zion's not going to be able to bully these fours at the next level like he does in college. At the same time, he is going to have to adjust his game to deal with the length of fours in the NBA or get a lot quicker to try to defend threes ... and foot quickness is one of the most difficult qualities to acquire.

    And, again, that doesn't even get into the whole question of how his body is going to handle the wear and tear of a schedule three-to-four times as long. Beyond Shaq, how many players of Zion's body type have thrived for long in the NBA? Charles Oakley? Anthony Mason? I think there's a reason for that. And neither of those players had a game so dependent on physical explosiveness as Zion Williamson, nor were either player what I would consider "elite."
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  10. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    That's fair. But Napier still was a first-round NBA draft pick who's managed to carve a niche for himself and play in the NBA for five years already. Kemba's been in the league three years longer and was a mid-lottery pick. Whoever you compare him to, you're talking a guy who got picked in the first round and stuck in the league. We're just debating the level of his play, which, I would say, probably is most likely somewhere between Walker and Napier.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  11. BonesJones

    BonesJones We got shooters.

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    Not. At. All.
     
  12. BonesJones

    BonesJones We got shooters.

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    Carsen is a much better shooter, can hit a wider variety of shots, and is much quicker and sharper with the ball than Shabazz was.
     
  13. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Wow, that's too much for me to read, sorry man. I never said he was going to be the greatest ever. I just said he is amazing! Does a combo of things out there people haven't seen from somebody his size. If you want to post about everything he CAN'T do.....right on. I have no reason to hate on his game or any other 18 year old kid. I just started this whole thread because from what I've seen, probably 25 games this season, he is more than just an athlete. He has court vision and dimes. Plays great defense. Can't shoot 3s or FTs, but oh well. Special player, I love to watch him play. And he isn't putting those numbers up all season against Lane Community College, he's doing this in the ACC. Excited to see him as a pro.
     
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  14. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    You didn't say he was the greatest ever, but it was comments about him being a generational talent and comparing his upside to Ja Morant's that started me in this discussion.

    What you call "saying what he CAN'T do" isn't hating on his game or hating on an 18-year-old kid (who is the probable top pick in the draft and will be a multi-millionaire in a few months) who I doubt cares what I think or views our message board. It's an assessment of his skills. To top that off, I talked about what he does well and compared him to some very good NBA players. I think it's been a fair critique. I have no money in the game. Just an opinion.

    His numbers aren't compiled in a vacuum. Fact is while the ACC is a great league, there aren't a ton of bigs with top line NBA potential playing there right now. In fact, three of the biggest NBA prospects in the ACC this year are Zion's teammates.

    Great defense is more than blocking shots. He's got to move his feet. He can shoot 3s.

    I hope this was easier for you to read. Enjoy watching him. He's an exciting player. I just don't think he's the special talent others do.
     
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  15. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    He's everywhere on defense if you ask me. Filling the lane, weak side help. He's all over. If I was the other team, I'd just lay off him and hope he'd shoot 3s......but he has hit a couple huge ones today.
     
  16. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    I don't see it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see it. I just saw him get taken off-balance and give up a 3 off a simple jab step, though.
     
  17. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    Too each his own. I just saw him close out and block a 3 pointer and then rush out slap the ball out of the players hands on the wing and out of bounds of them. He won't get credit for the steal, but he definitely caused the TO.I don't watch college hoops a ton. Not enough to know all the players, but this dude is special.
     
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  18. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    In fairness, he came back right after that with a great block on a 3 attempt at the top of the key and his help intimidated a Mich St guy into a 3-second call when he had the ball down on the block.

    I have no question about his vertical explosiveness, straight ahead movement or power. How could anyone?
     
  19. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    I still believe his court vision is one of his strengths. That play that just happened. Took his man down low, acknowledged he had nothing, made a great skip pass to the open man for a three. I think he has the tools to succeed. We will see in a few months huh. Nice chatting with you FAMS.
     
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  20. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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