I think Webs has improved over even just the course of last year, but I'm fully willing to say that the jury's out until he's back, and back for a few weeks. Notice (AGAIN!) that I'm NOT saying Travis sucks. What I am saying is that it's my opinion Webster is the complete player, and (AGAIN!) I think that we'll have to wait to see what Webs does when he gets back to have anything close to conclusive evidence on it. AGAIN, I think Travis' role should be primarily as the backup PF, with a few minutes at SF. And I think he should be crashing the boards every time a shot goes up. But that's just me. It wouldn't surprise me to see Webster never start again. It would surprise me if Outlaw (barring injury) ever starts for us. Batum may be great, and I hope he is. I think I've posted elsewhere my Webster thougths, and I'd be willing to do so again in a Webster thread. But this is about Travis, and I'm not seeing a whole lot of time taken to refute my claims...other than "read the Newspaper" and "That's totally false".
So I ask again, what parts was I wrong on? Which part did I make up? I'm not the one in his head telling him to impersonate Carmelo Anthony so he can be an All-Star, or telling him to giggle with glee thinking about chucking from anywhere he wants, or hypnotizing him to shoot 23-68 on non-3pt shots. I'm not the one telling him to make sure he fails Nate's physical tests when he shows up for training camp. I'm certainly not the one telling him not to improve his game. I am the one saying I'd love for him to show the energy he did in the Houston game more than once every two weeks. I am the one saying I'd love for him to chop down a few of those contested 20-footers he's shooting 33% on so that he'd be an EVEN MORE PRODUCTIVE member of our team. Color me not happy with mediocrity from my home team. And yes, if when Webs comes back he does the same thing (unlikely, but perhaps) then you'll see me questioning him, too. Check my comments on Blake, and LMA. Outlaw's not the only one who gets criticized.
Webster and TO are very different players - the only thing they share is the fact that they play the same position. Webster is a complementary role player who can shoot the open 3 and finish strong on the break when someone creates for him (seen recently with Rudy). Unfortunately, he is a below-average starter offensively who has not really improved his offense during his career so far (maybe he is ready to make this jump this year, I do not know) - but has improved defensively to the tune that he gets more minutes - and his offensive output is larger (but still the same per-minute). Travis is a guy who can take over a game and the best attribute of his game is his ability to create a jump-shot for himself against almost anyone in the league. He does not work that well in the flow of the offense - but his long-ball shooting has improved to the point where he is stroking it better than Webster. His defense went from unwatchable to decent+ - so he improved both his defense and his offense. Travis is an above average offensive player and a decent defensive player. I am not sure what makes Webster a more "complete" player that Outlaw - I just do not see it. But, what I do think is that replacing Webster's contributions is going to be a lot easier than replacing Travis - so in my opinion Travis's value to the team is higher. I think that with the emergence of Nic - I think he has the best chance to become our SF starter and th most complete player of these. I think Webster's long-term future with the team depends on Nate's decision if he wants Travis as the backup PF or the backup SF.
While I don't totally agree with everything you just said, I respect that you were coherent and pointed out actual differences. As I've said, I can't compare Webs' growth this year to Outlaw's growth this year. I've been happy with Travis' 3pt shooting increase, and yet still cringe when he goes inside the 3pt line. I'm looking forward to the ride.
Which aspect of Travis' 22' made shot at the shot clock buzzer on a pass from Roy is negative? Please answer this. Your initial post in this exchange was about that shot; what else would you expect Outlaw to do in that situation?
??? it seems you're confusing a response I made to number 10 as if it was a response intended for you... it wasn't. It sure would be great if he would get back to me on how TO's defense, ballhandling, and 3 point shooting could improve but for him to claim it's somehow "a fact that his game hasn't improved at all" To answer the later part of your post, I don't think Travis is great. What do I think of TO's converting of 2pnt shots this year? I think it has sucked. He has his shortcomings and could be improved on IMO. But warts and all, I prefer him to Webster at most every aspect of the game. STOMP
I'm pleased with how Outlaw's playing, and he made a couple very important plays... but he's no stopper. If he was a stopper he wouldn't have been guarding Foye, who was the third or fourth offensive option for the Wolves. Ed O.
Travis is a better help defender than man to man defender - so putting him on someone he can switch off to help others is the right utilization of his abilities - it was the right call by Nate. FWIW...
I'm not criticizing Nate or Outlaw. I'm questioning those who anoint him a stopper based on the steal he got on Randy Foye in that game. Ed O.
I know you were not. That's why I added the FWIW at the end - it was just an interesting tid-bit that seemed somewhat relevant to the conversation.
Just to add my two cents. I couldn't be more pleased with Outlaw. He really has developed a more all-around game since last season. And maybe he didn't just develop one, but has broadened his responsibilities. This team is just getting ridiculously loaded.
Nate has him guarding the best offensive player the opponent has at the end of games, at least in terms of creating their own shot. I'm not saying he is the "stopper", just that Nate feels Travis gives the team the best chance against these players. And the team continues to win these close games with him in the game. Those are the facts, in Nate's own words...
Yes, McMillan has put Outlaw on Kobe, McGrady, and Wade. And he's gotten absolutely torched. Outlaw making a good play against Randy "I'm Not Brandon Roy" Foye doesn't mean much, it's only one play out of 6 seasons. You seem to be expecting Outlaw to become a defensive stopper, which is ridiculously unlikely, whatever the coach and the beat writer say. He's had 6 years to prove he's not a great defensive player, and he hasn't even defended well this season. I would expect that our fans don't take fluff articles as proof of a player's impending greatness. I'll admit that I was expecting some regression in his three point shooting and the opposite has happened, so far. If he can turn all those foot on the line jumpers into threes at a good rate I'll be thrilled. Until then, I'm not going to get excited by marginal improvements in his all around game. His offense is still his biggest strength, and his FG% and shot selection still isn't good enough to be more than a decent role player.
I get it. You like to criticize Outlaw, and you use your opinion only to back up your negativity. At least this is the thread for your nonsense. I never said Outlaw was "great", so again, making stuff up in order to slam a productive member of the team makes me question you as to if you really are a fan of the TEAM.
Um, that is what he is, and that is what he is paid to be at $4 mil/per. Webster has a better contract than Outlaw, and he doesn't even play at the end of games.
He's playing 30 minutes a game, not role player minutes, and it's possible he's going to be seriously overpaid for his offensive abilities in two years. I don't. I like to discuss ways to improve the team. Outlaw is IMO an overrated player who doesn't usually deserve the minutes he's getting. Sorry if I mischaracterized you opinion on Outlaw. What, to you, does the Oregonian article mean? You expect him to significantly improve?
first it was TS% then when he improved that you switched criteria... your quote was that he hadn't shown any progression the last few seasons. If the bolded part is your feeble answer to my repeated request to address your ridiculous quote, then obviously we've taken this as far as possible. Dodge city. STOMP
If we're talking about this quote, posted the day after the Laker debacle... I don't get what I'm supposedly dodging. He's a jump shooter, and I'm not a big fan of players who's main skill is to create their own jump shot. Where did I say that's he hasn't shown any progression?
right here... How can improved outside shooting, ball handling, and being deemed a 4th quarter defensive option on guards by a defensive minded coach be indications of a player whose game that hasn't progressed? STOMP
Me being disappointed that his game, after a very poor pre-season, didn't seem to have changed his game does not mean that I felt that "he hadn't shown any progression the last few seasons." Anyway, his "game" to me, at least, means his style of play, ie a perimeter player. Has that changed? outside shooting - yep, big improvement, hopefully it continues (over 40% from three, obviously 55% or whatever can't continue) ball handling - I don't see any improvement here 4th quarter defensive option - I don't care if he's being considered an option, I care how he performs. So far, I'm still not impressed with his defense in general.
