Originally I was hoping you were joking as their differences are wildly greater then their similarities. Though it was far from necessary to do so, I laid how ridiculous your comparison is with stats. I don't know what else to say. STOMP
that's my entire point. he's a perimeter player on a team that needs to attack the basket more often. If he turned into one of the exceptions to the rule and significantly changed his style of play he'd be a good player - as he's unlikely to do so, he's being seriously overrated. My original quote was referring to one year's time, but whatever.... yes, his handles are now about average. His defense, improved as it may be, isn't very good. I love the Blazers, I love watching them win. That's it. I have nothing against Outlaw, and Webster is far from being "my guy" (that'd be Batum). where'd I claim that? what about "his defense in general" makes you think I'm talking about specific moments? Sure he's had good defensive plays, this season throughout his career. Somebody with his athleticism is bound to do good things. Despite the odd good play, he's still not a good defensive player. no I didn't... If you don't want to discuss it anymore it'd be polite to post something along the lines of "lets just agree to disagree," especially after accusing me of "dodging," it makes you look like you're "dodging" yourself.
I'm sure there are things most have done that if you spotlighted it in a certain way...it would be damaging in the press. I keep reading about what a lousy defender we have in our backup small forward and our starting unit gets a free pass when they are terrible defenders...or do we blame Travis for being one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA? It's like a layup drill with Blake and Roy when we play quick guards and I know everyone expects Oden to alter that but the point is they have alot of trouble staying in front of their men and then Nate gets blasted for trying guard them with Travis.
You had better believe it. However, there's no light that can make diddling someone underage look good. The thing is that Travis should be a lockdown defender. He's long, he's quick and he can jump through the roof. Zach Randolph had all the tools too--wide body, quick feet, long arms. The problem with both players is that they just don't care about defense.
sorry I've been busy and had to go to bed at some point last night when I was cranking out other responses. I had asked the same questions several times, and though you'd responded to me, you hadn't addressed those questions. Until this... He's shooting the lights out from the perimeter which (if you listen to the coach and GM) is a very needed skill of the team trying to best compliment Oden inside. He's also a very good option as the clock winds down as he has the rare ability to get a good look on most anyone... every team could use a couple of guys like that. Those are true needs of the club and as such, he is already a good player for the team. Being better at taking the ball to the hole would make him all the better, but the perimeter threat is what is needed from Portland's wings. If you take exception to this you are really disagreeing with the coach and GM who've spelled out the role for him to follow. They wanted him to focus his offseason workout on developing his handle and 3 point shot and they seem pleased with the results. well most of this is my point of view as well. I'd suggest that if you don't want people to assume your meaning, that you put qualifiers on some of the emphatic statements you make to let the reader know whats what... like tell me that you're referring to one year's time. Personally I don't think Travis is bound for greatness. I think overall he's a pretty decent offensive player and an average defensive player. Improving as much as he has, I think it's pretty amazing that you're claiming "his all around game has only seen marginal improvement." Dude arrived with no handle and no jumper...few if any real Bball skills but amazing physical ability. Anywayz, I see Martell about the same on D and less on O... which is partially why my wish list this last offseason at #13 went Anthony Randolph, Batum 1, 2. Again, you've writen a lot of emphatic statements in this thread... most of which are negative comments on Travis. He had many good defensive plays down the stretch of the last game and generally played well. Acknowledging a good defensive game on his part instead of calling a refered to play that was thrown out as an example as an "odd good play" or "Outlaw making a good play against Randy "I'm Not Brandon Roy" Foye doesn't mean much, it's only one play out of 6 seasons"... reads to me like you're claiming it's the only thing he's done or brings to that end of the court. He's been improving steadily since he came into the league to the point where his D is passable. After all this I think we're more on the same page then before but we've been using different semantics, so I'll have to agree to agree and disagree. Go Nicolas! STOMP
Well if you look at last years stats, Martell only had one stat T.O. 1.1 vs 1.3 better than Outlaws numbers. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2795 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2015
That's a valid point Hog...but I think there's a difference, and that is in the way they were used. I wish I had a stat of "# of possessions vs. # of passes", but I don't (assist ratio is probably closest). I can only say anecdotally (which is also why I'm comparing Travis 2007-08 to Webs 2007-08, not "Improved Travis" with "Broken Webs that we only saw light it up in the preseason Kings game"), that when Travis came into the game, he was a me-first gunner. His shots per minute were right there with Roy and LMA, while Webs averaged 3 shots less per game in 3 more minutes. Outlaw had a higher a/40min, but Webs' assist ratio was 20% higher (10.1 to 8.1). Webs was (based on the scouting report of the pages you sent) the "top perimeter defender" on the Blazers. Outlaw blew him away in PER, but I submit that Travis had much more of a green light than Webs did. Webster did have a true shooting percentage of 55%, whereas Outlaw was 49.9%. (Though I'll stop here to admit I love the fact Travis is taking a step back, and shooting 23 foot 3's rather than 23 foot 2's, and that he's doing well this year. But as I said, it's a comparison to last year when both were playing). I think Travis did well with the role given to him, just as I think the same about Webster. the difference to me is this: Give Webster Travis's role last year and I think about the same thing happens (give or take a bit). The one time I saw it, he scored 24 in a quarter. It'd be difficult for you to claim logically that you think Travis could have taken Webs' role and done anything close. When Travis was put on K*be, he got lit up for 27 points in 12 minutes. Even this year (which I fully admit he's improved) he's being lit up by premier players, where Webs was holding his own last year. Stats can help, but I think they have to be taken in context. But you are right in saying that in the volume statistical categories, Outlaw was better than Webs. In some of the others I think are more helpful to team play (assist ratio, turnover ratio, true shooting %) Webs more than held his own.
I don't believe that about Travis and because you say it certainly doesn't make it true. He does care and is proving it in games, he needs to be more consistant. Does anyone watch the rest of these guys play defense?It's embarrassing at times. Joel, Greg and Nic and that's it. We give up as many points as we score and we have a good offense.
Martell is IMO a better defender, but at this point in his career he has underwhelmed. Outlaw on the other hand seems to be getting better every year. Martell we won't know about until he plays this year, but Travis seems to be improving, hell I even seen him pass the ball a few times a game this year. This of course is just my oppinion FWIW.
Last year Outlaw had about no-one to pass to on the 2nd unit. Of course he took the shots - that was what he was supposed to do. He now has Rudy on the 2nd unit - it is not a surprise that you see him passing more.
... or getting the sort of open looks that Martell has been enjoying playing off the better players in the 1st unit. I was going to type the same thing, but you beat me to it. Was that logical enough for you BrianfromWA? STOMP
Originally Posted by BrianFromWA That's a fundamental difference between us. I disagree. If you want to say "better scorer", fine. It'll be hard to substantiate any claims further than that, like "better shooter", "better passer", "better rebounder", or "better defender Brian I just posted stats that would substantiate who may or may not be better. Stats can work both ways if you dig deep enough and someone has a formula that works for your argument.
Anymore mediocre games from LaMarcus Aldridge, the 2nd overall pick in 2006, he'll become the scapegoat. LaMarcus, grow a pair!
thanks for the response and especially for the constructive criticism of my writing, and yes, go frenchie!
