<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you mean Tim Duncan, then I agree Let's think playoffs first. Some guys are great in regular season/poor in playoffs, while others are poor in regular season/great in playoffs. Ideally, we want a guy that is great in both. It means they feel the sense of urgency and they have the ability to win with great pressure, great variety of things they can do to help win, and what they can do despite skilled defenders going against them.</div> Agree however since we're always picking mid-late lotto we don't have the choice really to take a guy like Duncan or Shaq who can win championships, let alone guys like Dirk, Bosh, KG, JO, Gasol, etc. who are very good big men but aren't champions. In this draft we may get to acquire a guy in Yi JianLian who is a similar prospect to those guys and even if hes not a Duncan you have to take him, especially on our team where we're STACKED at SG/SF, have 2 very solid PGs, have a great young C and another couple of raw C prospects plus a big oaf on the bench. Other than an athletic defensive big man to come off the bench a starting PF for the future should be our top priority and Yi seems to be the best prospect that we could realistically acquire. Like I said before, we can take an "NBA ready" guy with a low ceiling or major holes in his game but will he make a difference as to whether we make the playoffs or not next year? Probably not, it seems like a no brainer to take a flyer on an athletic, skilled, 7 footer with "high potential" who could be your Bosh/Dirk/KG or whatever he turns out to be.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Agree however since we're always picking mid-late lotto we don't have the choice really to take a guy like Duncan or Shaq who can win championships, let alone guys like Dirk, Bosh, KG, JO, Gasol, etc. who are very good big men but aren't champions. In this draft we may get to acquire a guy in Yi JianLian who is a similar prospect to those guys and even if hes not a Duncan you have to take him, especially on our team where we're STACKED at SG/SF, have 2 very solid PGs, have a great young C and another couple of raw C prospects plus a big oaf on the bench. Other than an athletic defensive big man to come off the bench a starting PF for the future should be our top priority and Yi seems to be the best prospect that we could realistically acquire. Like I said before, we can take an "NBA ready" guy with a low ceiling or major holes in his game but will he make a difference as to whether we make the playoffs or not next year? Probably not, it seems like a no brainer to take a flyer on an athletic, skilled, 7 footer with "high potential" who could be your Bosh/Dirk/KG or whatever he turns out to be.</div> Hey, I'd want to take him. Athletic + high basketball IQ + finesse sounds like a winning choice for me. I'm just saying before we get any other player that theoretically gives us championship contention we better make sure it fits well enough to make the playoffs and isn't an 8th seeded sweep by the first place team. Otherwise we're no better than Memphis. We look good in regular season and get sweeped by #1.
I got this to work on realgm: Warriors get 7-footer Pau Gasol. Grizzlies get JRich, MP (expiring), AK-47, Rafael Araujo (expiring), CJ Miles (expiring). Jazz get huge expiring contracts in Eddie Jones. These guys will prolly need some sweetening for giving up AK-47. Outgoing Jason Richardson 6-6 SG from Michigan State 12.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes Mickael Pietrus 6-6 SG from France (Foreign) 13.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.3 minutes Incoming Pau Gasol 7-0 PF from Spain (Foreign) 19.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 30.8 minutes Change in team outlook: -6.9 ppg, -2.0 rpg, and -1.0 apg. Utah Trade Breakdown Outgoing Andrei Kirilenko 6-9 SF from Russia (Foreign) 9.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 32.2 minutes Rafael Araujo 6-11 C from Brigham Young 2.0 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.0 minutes CJ Miles 6-6 SG from Skyline (HS) 3.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.7 apg in 11.6 minutes Incoming Eddie Jones 6-6 SG from Temple 4.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 18.4 minutes Change in team outlook: -9.9 ppg, -6.7 rpg, and -3.4 apg. Memphis Trade Breakdown Outgoing Eddie Jones 6-6 SG from Temple 4.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 18.4 minutes Pau Gasol 7-0 PF from Spain (Foreign) 19.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 30.8 minutes Incoming Jason Richardson 6-6 SG from Michigan State 12.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.6 apg in 29.9 minutes Mickael Pietrus 6-6 SG from France (Foreign) 13.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 0.9 apg in 31.3 minutes Andrei Kirilenko 6-9 SF from Russia (Foreign) 9.1 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 32.2 minutes Rafael Araujo 6-11 C from Brigham Young 2.0 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.0 minutes CJ Miles 6-6 SG from Skyline (HS) 3.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 0.7 apg in 11.6 minutes Change in team outlook: +16.8 ppg, +8.7 rpg, and +4.4 apg. Successful Scenario Due to Golden State, Utah, and Memphis being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Golden State, Utah, and Memphis had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Hey, I'd want to take him. Athletic + high basketball IQ + finesse sounds like a winning choice for me. I'm just saying before we get any other player that theoretically gives us championship contention we better make sure it fits well enough to make the playoffs and isn't an 8th seeded sweep by the first place team. Otherwise we're no better than Memphis. We look good in regular season and get sweeped by #1.</div>I think our other players are a lot better than the other players besides Gasol that Memphis has. We could be waiting a long time for another premiere big man to become available, if we have a shot at Gasol we should strike while we have the chance. If we can do it without giving up Monta and/or being able to unload Foyle on them, so much the better. Pietrus is going to be leaving anyway, I don't want to see him walk without us taking the opportunity to get trade value out of him, and that window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Hey, I'd want to take him. Athletic + high basketball IQ + finesse sounds like a winning choice for me. I'm just saying before we get any other player that theoretically gives us championship contention we better make sure it fits well enough to make the playoffs and isn't an 8th seeded sweep by the first place team. Otherwise we're no better than Memphis. We look good in regular season and get sweeped by #1.</div> Pau went #3 in the 2001 NBA Draft. It was the Jason Richardson draft, so we never had a chance to get him. He's a 7-footer and rebounds better than AK-47. Pau also can shoot from outside as well as score inside. His weakness would be on defense, but both he and AB would combine to form a pretty good defensive tandem I think. What absolutely kills me is that when the Warriors do get a good draft, we end up picking the wrong guy. The biggest example is taking Joe Smith instead of Kevin Garnett in the 1995 draft. It wasn't just picking the wrong guy, but not taking high schoolers. Taking high schoolers was riskier and was too much for Warriors management to contemplate. The same happened with international players. The Warriors shied away from it back when the idea was still new.
Not trade for Gasol, cuz Warriors have 3% chance to get Chinise prospect? Ok you got lucky with Biedrins, but you forget scouting reports on Zarko and Skita. I doun't even think warriors will have a shoot to draft him, because you have to miss the playofs, and just because he is next best player after Yao to play in NBA I bet he will be TOP 5 pick, just to sell jerseys and make money. Even if you do draft him, Nely might have problems with that guy if he has poor english or basketball IQ. Warriors 1st round draft pick has high value now, high enough that Memphis might even go with Pitrus+Foyle+1st round pick for Gasol. You upgrade Foyle to Gasol, you gona lose Pietrus anyway, you don't risk at draft with another prospect ( POB worked realy good for warriors so far huh - I remember ppl puting him in starting 5 over Biedrins ) and you get Gasol. I'd even add Elis if Memphis whant's more, since you have J-Rich and S-Jax at SG anyway.
Now even the owner, Michael Heisley, has softened his position on the trading Pau. Gasol ready for trade; Griz listening West talks with Bulls about deal, but Grizzlies not in fire sale mode By Ronald Tillery Contact January 22, 2007 LOS ANGELES -- Grizzlies center Pau Gasol won't say as much but his actions and agent have delivered the message. The 7-footer wants out of Memphis. Pronto. Given Gasol's play and the feelers his agent, Arn Tellem, have lobbed around the NBA recently, the Grizzlies are suddenly forced to consider their future without someone they've deemed the franchise player. Gasol made trade overtures before and after Mike Fratello was fired, according to team insiders. The Spaniard dodged the question when asked Sunday if he's demanded a trade at any point this season. "I don't want to comment on that right now because I don't want it to be a distraction to me or the team," Gasol said. "It's not beneficial to anybody. Whatever happens is yet to be seen." Reached Sunday while traveling, team president Jerry West acknowledged a reported conversation with the Chicago Bulls. West characterized the discussion as cursory to reveal Gasol's availability on the trade market. Bulls general manager John Paxson, however, never mentioned players that he would offer for Gasol. "The conversation was brief," West said. "But we're not giving him away. This franchise won't give him away. Period." Gasol, who has four years and more than $60 million left on a maximum contract, is one of the few skilled post players in the league. Still, a Gasol deal with the Bulls could be consummated if they were willing to part with guard Ben Gordon and forward Luol Deng. Even Griz majority owner Michael Heisley softened his past stance on keeping Gasol, saying he seconded West's sentiment. Gasol, like anyone on the roster, can be had at the right price. "If we trade Pau we're looking to substantially improve the team for the future or we would be looking to get more picks in this draft," Heisley said. "If we can improve the team, we would trade Pau. But there's a difference when you've made up your mind like with Jason Williams and Bonzi Wells. Pau Gasol is not available in that sense. I don't make trades. But if Jerry came to me with a trade that would improve this team, Pau will be traded. Jerry is always exploring possibilities." Heisley also had this message for potential suitors. "If you think Pau is on a fire sale list, you're crazy," Heisley said. "I like the young man a lot. There's no question he's the only franchise-type player we've got. ... Whether you trade Pau or not depends on what's brought to you." Privately, the organization is growing dissatisfied with the effort Gasol has brought to work. The perception is that Gasol's lackadaisical defensive and rebounding performances coupled with inconsistent offense are by design to emphasize his desire for a trade. Asked his thoughts on the team's direction, Gasol sounded concerned. "I don't really know the direction of the franchise," he said before adding that he ultimately wants to play for a winner. "Everybody wants that," Gasol said. "Personally, to me, it's really important to be in that situation and have a chance to grow." http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/grizzl...5296526,00.html
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"If we trade Pau we're looking to substantially improve the team for the future or we would be looking to get more picks in this draft,"</div> Pietrus+Foyle+1st & 2nd round picks?
<div class="quote_poster">hipokrat_x(LV) Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus+Foyle+1st & 2nd round picks?</div> I'd do that every day of the week and twice on sunday
The Warriors do have two second round draft picks, but each from other teams (the Wolves and the Nets). Our own pick depends on whether we do better than the Celtics, but if we do WORSE than them we keep it, I believe. The path of the pick? It was traded to Phoenix for Zarko then traded to the Celtics for Walter McCarty then traded for Leon Powe then traded for J.R. Smith. Where our round one pick lands is also up for serious question, as we're so close to the lottery. If we were lottery bound for sure, then of course it'd be worth more. But we're right on the bubble. I don't know if draft picks are enough even in this fairly deep draft, because proven talent is worth heaps and heaps more. Even then, I think that if the Bulls are considering parting with Luol Deng or Ben Gordon for Gasol, then West knows he can take more than just Pietrus and draft picks for Gasol. P.S. One funny thought is that Marc Gasol, Pau's brother will probably be drafted in the second round, projected to go midway through that round. He's not that great, though - a big, slow, traditional, flat footed center.
<div class="quote_poster">hipokrat_x(LV) Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not trade for Gasol, cuz Warriors have 3% chance to get Chinise prospect? Ok you got lucky with Biedrins, but you forget scouting reports on Zarko and Skita. I doun't even think warriors will have a shoot to draft him, because you have to miss the playofs, and just because he is next best player after Yao to play in NBA I bet he will be TOP 5 pick, just to sell jerseys and make money. Even if you do draft him, Nely might have problems with that guy if he has poor english or basketball IQ. Warriors 1st round draft pick has high value now, high enough that Memphis might even go with Pitrus+Foyle+1st round pick for Gasol. You upgrade Foyle to Gasol, you gona lose Pietrus anyway, you don't risk at draft with another prospect ( POB worked realy good for warriors so far huh - I remember ppl puting him in starting 5 over Biedrins ) and you get Gasol. I'd even add Elis if Memphis whant's more, since you have J-Rich and S-Jax at SG anyway.</div> I see you're point and agree with you. I think that most here would do a Pietrus/Foyle/07 first/ and second round picks for Gasol but that may not be enough. Once you get into trading JR and Pietrus and more then its a bit much since we may only be a marginally better team and this is a great draft where we can get a good player in the mid first round.
Here is MArcus Thompson explaining why the Warriors should not get Gasol.... i couldnt agree more. First off, Gasol is expensive. So if all you're giving up is Richardson and Cabarkapa, be ready to pay the tax. Pau is getting $12 million this season. I wouldn't make the trade because Gasol is a halfcourt player. When I say halfcourt, I mean he CANNOT play in an uptempo system. The way to negate Pau is to run the floor. You see what's happening in Memphis now. They have a new coach, they've got some nice young talent in Rudy Gay and Mike Miller, Arthur Johnson. They're trying to get up and down the court. So then why are they trying tyo trade Gasol? Because that's not his game. There's talk about his work ethic being subpar. Plus, he's no athlete. The running game is hard work, and he doesn't have the physical tools to thrive in that game. That's why he's on the market. Nellie is an uptempo coach. Baron, though he can play in the halfcourt, is better in an uptempo system. Same with Ellis, Biedrins, Pietrus, etc. The Warriors would have to change coaches and retool their entire roster to fit aorund Gasol, who I don't think will get you a title anyway. We're talking about a guy who can't get his team past the first round. He's no Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett, so he's not worth changing the entire direction of the franchise. That's my opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Here is MArcus Thompson explaining why the Warriors should not get Gasol.... i couldnt agree more. First off, Gasol is expensive. So if all you're giving up is Richardson and Cabarkapa, be ready to pay the tax. Pau is getting $12 million this season. I wouldn't make the trade because Gasol is a halfcourt player. When I say halfcourt, I mean he CANNOT play in an uptempo system. The way to negate Pau is to run the floor. You see what's happening in Memphis now. They have a new coach, they've got some nice young talent in Rudy Gay and Mike Miller, Arthur Johnson. They're trying to get up and down the court. So then why are they trying tyo trade Gasol? Because that's not his game. There's talk about his work ethic being subpar. Plus, he's no athlete. The running game is hard work, and he doesn't have the physical tools to thrive in that game. That's why he's on the market. Nellie is an uptempo coach. Baron, though he can play in the halfcourt, is better in an uptempo system. Same with Ellis, Biedrins, Pietrus, etc. The Warriors would have to change coaches and retool their entire roster to fit aorund Gasol, who I don't think will get you a title anyway. We're talking about a guy who can't get his team past the first round. He's no Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett, so he's not worth changing the entire direction of the franchise. That's my opinion.</div> That's a nice opinion there by Marcus Thompson. I find it funny that he states that Gasol can't get his team past the first round and then says he's no Kevin Garnett. Ok, maybe that isn't very funny, but at least it is ironic because how long did it take Garnett to get past the first round of the playoffs? Gasol has done very well on leading overachieving teams I believe. I think Marcus Thompson could be knocking him a little too much there. But the main thing are his points about how Gasol won't fit the Warriors' team, which seem very valid.
Thompson is an idiot. Gasol is no athlete? He's about the same as Biedrins in terms of overall athletic ability and probably top 5 in athleticism as far as 7 footers go in the league. The guy doesn't even know the players on Memphis names', its Alexander Johnson, not Arthur Johnson. I do agree that Gasol is expensive but you'll get 20/10/2 from him with an inside game and his price tag isn't a whole lot more than what JR makes.
Anybody watch the World Championship in 2006? I was overseas so they showed every game. Gasol can flat out play and lead. I'd make that trade yesterday, today and tomorrow, but I'd be extremely sad to see JRich go. I think with Gasol and Beans up front there'd be a lot less fouls for Beans and a lot more blocks for the 2 of them. Plus, when teams are on one of those runs you can always slow it down on the offensive side and pass Pau the ball. He passes the ball well out of the post and has plenty of moves in the post.
Not sure where Thompson gets his info. Hollinger's (espn) scouting report: Scouting report: Gasol is unusually quick for a 7-footer, and that's where his primary advantage derives. He'll face up defenders from the high post and go by them to the rim, or catch the ball on the low left block and drive to either side for a close-in shot. Though he has a thin build, Gasol does a decent job of getting position in the post and is phenomenal at getting to the line. Either posting up or facing up, he is constantly going toward the rim and forcing the action. For his efforts, he averaged 0.52 free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt, the fifth-best rate among power forwards. Gasol's jumper is better than it looks, but that's faint praise. He takes his left hand off the ball extremely early and shoots a one-handed shot that mostly comes off his palm. For some reason, he looks much smoother from the free-throw line. Despite a high dribble, he handles the ball very well for his size, even taking it upcourt on the break occasionally. He also runs the floor very well, and might benefit if Memphis picked up the pace. Defensively, Gasol's lack of strength will always be an issue, but thanks to his length and footwork he's made himself adequate at that end. The emergence of Jake Tsakalidis also helped, as Gasol is far more competent at power forward than at center. Even at that position he's only average on the boards, and as with most quick, long players, he's better in zones than in man-to-man situations.
Well, I disagree with Thompson that Gasol is not an athlete, but the rest of his points are valid. I do agree that Gasol is more of a halfcourt player. Nelly's system isn't halfcourt, it's a constant marathon. Just ask Harrington, who was winded from playing his first game in Nelly's system. Gasol does play a half court game. Posting up is a halfcourt game, and Gasol needs the ball in his hands to create for himself, most of the time. So, maybe not the greatest fit. But clearly he is a great player, and I'd think that he would adapt if it meant winning. But, as far as what we need, something more along the lines of Tyson Chandler might actually fit better on the Warriors. Still, if Gasol is available, it would be stupid not to at least give an offer.
<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I mean he CANNOT play in an uptempo system. The way to negate Pau is to run the floor. You see what's happening in Memphis now. They have a new coach, they've got some nice young talent in Rudy Gay and Mike Miller, Arthur Johnson. They're trying to get up and down the court. So then why are they trying tyo trade Gasol? Because that's not his game.</div> The flaw in his argument is claiming that, because the Grizzlies are trying to create an up-tempo team, Gasol no longer fits in with their plans...lol: 1)You have Gasol, coming off career years the last two seasons, as the face of your franchise. Why on earth would Jerry West draft players and trade for players that don't fit around his franchise guy? That's preposterous. They didn't say, "well, we have Gasol, who's a bargain at $12 mils a year, but we really want this Rudy Gay kid so we can run the floor, I guess Gasol's the odd man out." WTF? 2.)The reason they want to trade Gasol is not because he doesn't fit in with the "running" concept, lol, it's because of his injury and reported complacent attitude. Nellie would salivate over the thought of a Gasol/Biedrins front court. c'mon
<div class="quote_poster">DTKennedy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not sure where Thompson gets his info. Hollinger's (espn) scouting report: Scouting report: Gasol is unusually quick for a 7-footer, and that's where his primary advantage derives. He'll face up defenders from the high post and go by them to the rim, or catch the ball on the low left block and drive to either side for a close-in shot. Though he has a thin build, Gasol does a decent job of getting position in the post and is phenomenal at getting to the line. Either posting up or facing up, he is constantly going toward the rim and forcing the action. For his efforts, he averaged 0.52 free-throw attempts per field-goal attempt, the fifth-best rate among power forwards. Gasol's jumper is better than it looks, but that's faint praise. He takes his left hand off the ball extremely early and shoots a one-handed shot that mostly comes off his palm. For some reason, he looks much smoother from the free-throw line. Despite a high dribble, he handles the ball very well for his size, even taking it upcourt on the break occasionally. He also runs the floor very well, and might benefit if Memphis picked up the pace. Defensively, Gasol's lack of strength will always be an issue, but thanks to his length and footwork he's made himself adequate at that end. The emergence of Jake Tsakalidis also helped, as Gasol is far more competent at power forward than at center. Even at that position he's only average on the boards, and as with most quick, long players, he's better in zones than in man-to-man situations.</div> I agree more with Hollinger's remarks than MT2. I'm not sure where MT got his info. There are few players with Gasol's size that are better than him at PF in the running game -- KG, JO, Dirk, Amare, Duncan, Howard, Bosh... Okay, maybe he's top 10 when he's healthy, but that's pretty good company .