Payton Pondering NBA Future

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by NJNetz, Sep 8, 2007.

  1. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air Monta)</div><div class='quotemain'>Custodian, I don't know if you remember, but when Williams was being talked as a lotto pick WtWalker predicted that he would fall to the Nets' second pick for that year? I thought that was pretty amusing.</div></p>

    Yeah I know Wtwalker was calling it because he was saying that all the top draft analysts were reporting that the GMs thought Marcus Williams had a lot of red flags in terms of personality. And I guess as point guard you don't really want that type of cancer to run the offense, no matter how talented. Point guard is a huge position and one of the pieces that the coach must trust with his offense.</p>

    Payton will be a good backup, it's just dependent on health and if he's having to guard these lightning quick bastards like Speedy Claxton, Chris Paul, Raymond Felton or Earl Boykins. The 6 foot 0 guys and under that weigh 190 lbs or less. </p>

    BTW we need some kind of listing of all the previous posts when we're trying up posts so I can remember the context of the entire thread. [​IMG]</p>

    </p>
     
  2. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    If Sarunas Jasikevicius is really headed to Greece then bringing Payton in would make a lot of sense for the Warriors. Payton is still productive and could play the backup role behind Baron Davis. It wouldn't be farfetched to see Nelson use both Davis and Payton on the court at the same time either. Payton can guard opposing teams shooting guards effectively, and he's at his best in a wide open offense. </p>

    Payton would bring some toughness to the team, playoff experience, and another veteran voice in the locker room for this young team. Nice way to end his career as well returning to his hometown.</p>

    </p>
     
  3. Ming637

    Ming637 BBW Banned

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    It wouldn't be a terrible thing if the Warriors would be able to sign him for a veteran's minimum. Most of us, if not, then all of us pretty much dream of playing for our hometown and I'm pretty sure Gary just wants to achieve this feature to give back to his community all that has been given to him.</p>

    The Warriors only have 2 point guards and they're still young, so it would be a decent move to pick up a veteran that knows his way around and that can really help out on the perimeter off the bench. </p>
     
  4. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (custodianrules2)</div><div class='quotemain'>It's kind of like he better get us the ball back by forcing turnovers and picking off passes, because he sure turns the ball over quite a bit. I had him on my fantasy team and he was really good at fg percentage, steals, points, but he killed me when it came to turnovers and 3 point %. That's two things I expect him to improve upon this year before we start the Gilbert Arenas or Allen Iverson comparrisons. He's got to improve his 3 point % to a respectable amount and he's got to take care of the ball better and know when to make the smart pass. Also, he's got to improve his passing accuracy. I've felt since he began in this league that he doesn't quite know how to put the ball on the money like the way Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, or Steve Nash do for their teammteas (especially big post players). Those guys will win a skills competition any day of the week whereas guys like Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, Steve Francis can't put the ball where their teammates want it consistently enough.

    For instance if we look at Marbury and NY's move to having more of the offense go to the big players down low, he kind of sucks in that role. Then if we had that with Arenas or Francis, they'd rather overshoot and overdribble it. I'm hoping Ellis can be a capable point guard that can pass first and make others way better or he's all hype to me. It'd be like a quarterback that just decides to call plays for himself or can't make completions because his passing accuracy or playcalling isn't good. Ellis is advanced for his age as a player, but he's still got a ways a way to go to play the most skilled position in the nba. The point guard has to do it all and be able to score when nobody else is and be able to stop the other guy's best ballhandler, to lead the team and run what the coach wants out of a timeout, and to take care of the ball. He's got a lot of poise, but I don't see any vocal leadership or charisma that guys like Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, or Steve Nash have. Ellis knows he's still learning, so I hope he does a lot this year.</div></p>

    Excellent post, CR2. I think that is all spot on, Ellis made huge strides last season but still has a long way to go. I remember back at the beginning of the season he could not make an entry pass in the post for the life of him and he had a stretch of 3 or 4 games in a row where he made a costly turnover late in the game. He looked a lot more comfortable at the end of the year at PG in finding the open man, getting assists, making more crsip, accurate passes, playing more under control in general, but he still has a long ways to go. Like you said, he'll never be a Kidd, Nash, Paul, or even Baron as far as court vision and ability to make some of those insane passes that are still spot on but his upside could easily be like a Tony Parker or Allen Iverson as far as running the point is concerned. </p>

    As for Payton, I think he would be a very solid addition but he would have to agree to play a reduced role. Like someone else mentioned, he'd probably rather go to a contending team but what contending teams even want him? Maybe Detroit? San Antonio? Phoenix? Maybe, but I doubt it. On the W's I doubt that he would even be a regular rotation player if everyone is healthy, it'd be nice to have his veteran savy, toughness, he can serve as a mentor to Monta, Belinelli, Azu. He'd come in handy when Baron's annual 15 game rehab vacation comes around but outside of that he wouldn't be all that useful. </p>
     
  5. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (custodianrules2)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    Thanks!</p>

    Hey, we get our 2nd round steal, you get yours, right?</p>

    Marcus Williams looks pretty good. He's got the pure point guard game down pat as a first year nba player (and he'll get his shots when Jkidd needs a rest or when he's retired assuming the Nets hold onto Williams as the heir apparent). I remember he was very good statistics wise in summer league. He's got a lot of intangibles too like the leadership ability and his court sense. But like a lot of point guards today, they just have trouble shooting and a point guard needs that weapon to open up the rest of the game, especially if they aren't that quick or strong. Plus, Marcus Williams isn't the most gifted at staying in front of his man. But IMO that shouldn't stop his defensive effort and smartness when d-ing up. Both he and Deron Williams have been criticized as not being that quick, but the difference is Deron Williams really hassles his guy, makes good anticipations, uses his leg strength to play nba defense because he can't be a top flight defender anymore like he was in college. Plus, while Deron Williams is not that quick, he's got some pretty good hops and finishing power and he's a nice shooter. I'm not sure Marcus Williams has all that, but he doesn't need to be as long as he can make others around him better when it comes to passing, finishing plays nobody else can make or complete plays that have been set up for him.</p>

    The Knicks should have gotten Marcus Williams in the 06 draft, but the NY ownership and general management appears to be on drugs as much as Stephon Marbury appeared this summer when he came upon a "youthier" Knicks lineup and the addition of the "left handed southpaw" post player in Zach Randolph. My god. Watching the Knicks this year might be funny if we had expectations that the Knicks starting roster would actually share the ball with each other, let alone play any form of defense. But we'll see. All I know is Isiah is helping prove the stereotype that former all-star/hall of famer nba basketball players do not make good general managers probably because they were so good they forgot team chemistry and all the other things that make successful team play. And that they also tend to gamble on overrated players that are much like themselves when they were younger (maybe?) Thank goodness GM Chris Mullin redeemed himself after that Indy trade. I just took another famous nba player turned general manager to make it happen. Maybe the Bobcats trade will end up working out hugely in our favor and not so much for Charlotte, then it would make it two hall of famer GMs Mullin worked over to improve our team. [​IMG] But... then I forget we probably can't mess with the Pistons GM.
    </p></div>

    </p>

    ha, right...and we release our "2nd round steal". and at this point, i'd rather have monta than marcus...but we'll just have to wait and see if marcus can put it together this season and be a successful backup point guard...and we'll see if he's learned anything from kidd. </p>

    i still can't believe that Bobcats trade. what was the point of that?? to open up cap space, simultaneously adding a big man? that trade confused the hell outta me.</p>

    but anyways, other than golden state, i think payton should go to pheonix. who knows, maybe he could help out there...considering they need a backup PG pretty badly. </p>
     
  6. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    ha, right...and we release our "2nd round steal". and at this point, i'd rather have monta than marcus...but we'll just have to wait and see if marcus can put it together this season and be a successful backup point guard...and we'll see if he's learned anything from kidd. </p>

    i still can't believe that Bobcats trade. what was the point of that?? to open up cap space, simultaneously adding a big man? that trade confused the hell outta me.</p>

    but anyways, other than golden state, i think payton should go to pheonix. who knows, maybe he could help out there...considering they need a backup PG pretty badly. </p></div>

    From what I have understood, the trade was already planned before the draft which leads me to think that Belinelli was our pick the whole time. The easy truth is this; Belinelli fits the system more than J-Rich. J-Rich is better suited for a half court offense with someone creating for him. He looks good in the fastbreak game, but he doesn't have the ability to create for himself that Nellie wants. Belinelli can pass well, he can handle the ball, and he is a natural shooter wheras J-Rich is a natural athlete turned basketball player. </p>

    Adding Wright also had to do with the system we run. He's long, he's extremely quick, he has good hands and he is a perfect fit next to Biedrins. The trade in reality let us open up a spot for an amazing pure shooter while adding size without losing any speed or quickness.</p>
     
  7. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (custodianrules2)</div><div class='quotemain'>It's kind of like he better get us the ball back by forcing turnovers and picking off passes, because he sure turns the ball over quite a bit. I had him on my fantasy team and he was really good at fg percentage, steals, points, but he killed me when it came to turnovers and 3 point %. That's two things I expect him to improve upon this year before we start the Gilbert Arenas or Allen Iverson comparrisons. He's got to improve his 3 point % to a respectable amount and he's got to take care of the ball better and know when to make the smart pass. Also, he's got to improve his passing accuracy. I've felt since he began in this league that he doesn't quite know how to put the ball on the money like the way Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, or Steve Nash do for their teammteas (especially big post players). Those guys will win a skills competition any day of the week whereas guys like Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, Steve Francis can't put the ball where their teammates want it consistently enough.

    For instance if we look at Marbury and NY's move to having more of the offense go to the big players down low, he kind of sucks in that role. Then if we had that with Arenas or Francis, they'd rather overshoot and overdribble it. I'm hoping Ellis can be a capable point guard that can pass first and make others way better or he's all hype to me. It'd be like a quarterback that just decides to call plays for himself or can't make completions because his passing accuracy or playcalling isn't good. Ellis is advanced for his age as a player, but he's still got a ways a way to go to play the most skilled position in the nba. The point guard has to do it all and be able to score when nobody else is and be able to stop the other guy's best ballhandler, to lead the team and run what the coach wants out of a timeout, and to take care of the ball. He's got a lot of poise, but I don't see any vocal leadership or charisma that guys like Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, or Steve Nash have. Ellis knows he's still learning, so I hope he does a lot this year.</div></p>

    Excellent post, CR2. I think that is all spot on, Ellis made huge strides last season but still has a long way to go. I remember back at the beginning of the season he could not make an entry pass in the post for the life of him and he had a stretch of 3 or 4 games in a row where he made a costly turnover late in the game. He looked a lot more comfortable at the end of the year at PG in finding the open man, getting assists, making more crsip, accurate passes, playing more under control in general, but he still has a long ways to go. Like you said, he'll never be a Kidd, Nash, Paul, or even Baron as far as court vision and ability to make some of those insane passes that are still spot on but his upside could easily be like a Tony Parker or Allen Iverson as far as running the point is concerned. </p>

    As for Payton, I think he would be a very solid addition but he would have to agree to play a reduced role. Like someone else mentioned, he'd probably rather go to a contending team but what contending teams even want him? Maybe Detroit? San Antonio? Phoenix? Maybe, but I doubt it. On the W's I doubt that he would even be a regular rotation player if everyone is healthy, it'd be nice to have his veteran savy, toughness, he can serve as a mentor to Monta, Belinelli, Azu. He'd come in handy when Baron's annual 15 game rehab vacation comes around but outside of that he wouldn't be all that useful. </p>

    </div></p>

    Thanks Run, btw you've been doing great with this whole site merger!</p>

    Regarding Ellis, yeah I think a lot of us Warrior fans did not expect a whole lot of improvement in him becoming a true floor general. At least not right away. I mean we're talking about a quiet high school kid that never played for any top competition or coaches prior to joining the nba and he was the type of player that held Dajuan Wagner type records for scoring. Ellis is not an unselfish player, I think, but his passing isn't very on target. It's a bid wild rather than under control and natural instinct. </p>

    Regarding his unique scoring talents for his age, it was pretty obvious to me that Ellis is a naturally gifted decision maker when it comes to scoring and he had pretty good coaching on his moves. It also meant to me that he did not have a lot of high school competition to face or else he would have gone higher in the draft because gms couldn't project how stronger, bigger opponents might make it harder for him to get inside the lane or change his shots. He was also the type of guy who had to score a lot in order for his team to win and that typically does not encompass good team ball if one guy on the team can't rely on the others to score (or if he's really unselfish, but I don't think Ellis is that way considering the few clips that I saw didn't have very many big men because it's high school. In fact Ellis was one of the bigger players on the court even though he was the primary ball handler). If you look at some of the high school kids he played in that area of mississip they didn't look very tall or strong like the man-boy competition that Lebron James played against in high school or those kids out of Oakill Academy.</p>

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46QSdhNMptA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lveCjhmcAAU</p>

    I guess the one thing that Gms would take a risk on Monta Ellis, even with his bad predraft camp workouts, is the fact he demonstrated how creative he can be with the ball to get his own shot and against competition that should at least move as quickly as he does. But at 6'3 he moves like somebody much shorter like Chris Paul or Speedy Claxton. And Ellis has the wingspan, excellent coordination, and some mighty fine hops. In fact, if Monta Ellis did not have such body control when he got high, he'd find it very hard to finish much like Darius Miles other than just dunks. Ellis has good conditioning and he's got that quickness mismatch and ability to make tough shots. He's a good backup to have when Baron Davis prefers to shoot too many threes, he can't guard the light weight guys, or if he's out of shape, hurt, and unbalanced to the point where he can't make those tough off balance inside shots like he did last year. I don't know if Monta Ellis has a post game, but he seemed to use his size very well when he was the tallest high school player in the backcourt.</p>

    Back to Payton, I think he could be useful, but it definitely presents a big log jam if he's here. I'm thinking maybe it would be better if we could use Azu or Belinelli to play the point at the shooting guard spots. I wish we could use Hawkeye Pierce (not the one from Mash but Iowa star Pierre Pierce) to run some point, but he's crazy, about as turnover prone as Ellis, and the last thing we need is another headcase. We got Sjax for that type of worry and although we like Sjax's clutchness and playmaking ability, we could probably turn on Sjax once he screws up again. So, if we gotta get a 6'4 guy to play point at the shooting guard spot, I'd rather take Payton over Pierce and then finally over Azubuike (because he's more of a small forward anyway). At least we know Payton was a true scoring point guard that can playmake and take care of the ball while doing it. Belinelli might be a cool guy to trust as backup point because his guard game is sort of Brent Barryish or Manu Ginobilli-ish in some ways, meaning he can play point at duty, but his primary role is to score and shoot. In our offense, the setup guy needs to score and penetrate at will so he can open up opportunities for his teammates on the floor but do so under control. In addition to Belinelli we could also throw out Sjax if we limit his starting playing time to play some minutes with the second unit. Sjax is a very good option considering he's skilled/fast like a guard, he's tall/strong for his small forward position to the point where he can even get away with playing some power forward against the 230-240 pounders after running the hell out of those giants. If Payton's knees don't swell up on him too much while playing the running game, I wouldn't mind him being used a post up threat at the guard spots while Ellis/Belinelli attacks from the top of the key and we got three point shooters all around (Al Harrington - C, Austin Croshere - PF, Sjax - SF, SG Monta Ellis or Belinelli). Note: Ellis is not a 3 point shooter, but he can drive and suddenly pull up for a deep two. </p>
     
  8. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mynetsforlife)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    Again, I was kidding.</p>

    Infact, we discussed this topic some days ago. </p></div>

    </p>

    wow, this transition for the JBB members is gonna be tougher than i expected...</p>

    we gotta get em in on all our inside jokes haha.</p>

    </p>

    although "Marcus the Mitten" is a pretty sick nickname. next time i go to a nets game, i am definitely shouting that when marcus gets on the court. </p></div>

    If someone ever asks, and if he ever gets better say:</p>

    He was holding ____ like a baseball in a catchers mitten!</p>
     
  9. SirLaker

    SirLaker BBW MOD

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    He should seriously just retire already...he should have retired last year imo.
     
  10. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air Monta)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'> </p>

    ha, right...and we release our "2nd round steal". and at this point, i'd rather have monta than marcus...but we'll just have to wait and see if marcus can put it together this season and be a successful backup point guard...and we'll see if he's learned anything from kidd. </p>

    i still can't believe that Bobcats trade. what was the point of that?? to open up cap space, simultaneously adding a big man? that trade confused the hell outta me.</p>

    but anyways, other than golden state, i think payton should go to pheonix. who knows, maybe he could help out there...considering they need a backup PG pretty badly. </p></div>

    From what I have understood, the trade was already planned before the draft which leads me to think that Belinelli was our pick the whole time. The easy truth is this; Belinelli fits the system more than J-Rich. J-Rich is better suited for a half court offense with someone creating for him. He looks good in the fastbreak game, but he doesn't have the ability to create for himself that Nellie wants. Belinelli can pass well, he can handle the ball, and he is a natural shooter wheras J-Rich is a natural athlete turned basketball player. </p>

    Adding Wright also had to do with the system we run. He's long, he's extremely quick, he has good hands and he is a perfect fit next to Biedrins. The trade in reality let us open up a spot for an amazing pure shooter while adding size without losing any speed or quickness.</p></div>

    </p> hm...let's hope you and the warriors are right with that one. JRich was a pretty damn good player
     
  11. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SirLaker)</div><div class='quotemain'>He should seriously just retire already...he should have retired last year imo.</div></p>

    I disagree, sure Payton can't play starter minutes anymore, but he'd be one of the top backup pointguards, especially under Nellie's system. The Warriors could use another perimeter defender, especially if they end up dealing Pietrus. </p>

    It's not going to be an issue of playing time for Payton. He already knows he'll have to accept a lesser role, but he can still have a positive impact for any team in the league. </p>

    </p>
     
  12. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (custodianrules2)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    Thanks!</p>

    Hey, we get our 2nd round steal, you get yours, right?</p>

    Marcus Williams looks pretty good. He's got the pure point guard game down pat as a first year nba player (and he'll get his shots when Jkidd needs a rest or when he's retired assuming the Nets hold onto Williams as the heir apparent). I remember he was very good statistics wise in summer league. He's got a lot of intangibles too like the leadership ability and his court sense. But like a lot of point guards today, they just have trouble shooting and a point guard needs that weapon to open up the rest of the game, especially if they aren't that quick or strong. Plus, Marcus Williams isn't the most gifted at staying in front of his man. But IMO that shouldn't stop his defensive effort and smartness when d-ing up. Both he and Deron Williams have been criticized as not being that quick, but the difference is Deron Williams really hassles his guy, makes good anticipations, uses his leg strength to play nba defense because he can't be a top flight defender anymore like he was in college. Plus, while Deron Williams is not that quick, he's got some pretty good hops and finishing power and he's a nice shooter. I'm not sure Marcus Williams has all that, but he doesn't need to be as long as he can make others around him better when it comes to passing, finishing plays nobody else can make or complete plays that have been set up for him.</p>

    The Knicks should have gotten Marcus Williams in the 06 draft, but the NY ownership and general management appears to be on drugs as much as Stephon Marbury appeared this summer when he came upon a "youthier" Knicks lineup and the addition of the "left handed southpaw" post player in Zach Randolph. My god. Watching the Knicks this year might be funny if we had expectations that the Knicks starting roster would actually share the ball with each other, let alone play any form of defense. But we'll see. All I know is Isiah is helping prove the stereotype that former all-star/hall of famer nba basketball players do not make good general managers probably because they were so good they forgot team chemistry and all the other things that make successful team play. And that they also tend to gamble on overrated players that are much like themselves when they were younger (maybe?) Thank goodness GM Chris Mullin redeemed himself after that Indy trade. I just took another famous nba player turned general manager to make it happen. Maybe the Bobcats trade will end up working out hugely in our favor and not so much for Charlotte, then it would make it two hall of famer GMs Mullin worked over to improve our team. [​IMG] But... then I forget we probably can't mess with the Pistons GM.
    </p></div>

    </p>

    ha, right...and we release our "2nd round steal". and at this point, i'd rather have monta than marcus...but we'll just have to wait and see if marcus can put it together this season and be a successful backup point guard...and we'll see if he's learned anything from kidd. </p>

    i still can't believe that Bobcats trade. what was the point of that?? to open up cap space, simultaneously adding a big man? that trade confused the hell outta me.</p>

    but anyways, other than golden state, i think payton should go to pheonix. who knows, maybe he could help out there...considering they need a backup PG pretty badly. </p></div>

    Yeah, well, anybody playing behind Kidd is going to have a hard time trying to get playing time, especially when the Nets second unit does not look impressive at all when it comes to scoring and Williams is not projected to be a great scorer at the nba level. But this year might be good if they got a healthy Richard Jefferson and Nenad Krstic to lock down the starting rotation and not take away the thin bench. Then you got Marcus Williams playing next to guys like a newly acquired Jamaal Magloire, last year's Bostan Nachbar, and a promising rook (although headcase) Sean Williams or a new and possibly improved Antoine Wright. It might be a lot better, who knows. </p>

    At least the nets never really had to worry about not making the playoffs in that division in the Eastern Conference. As long as they have Kidd (and Carter), the team has a chance, and the guy is an iron man that makes even the smallest contributor play a lot better than he is. But Marcus Williams, to me, he's no Deron Williams when it comes to shooting, finishing, hops, and above average defense, but when it comes to playmaking and ballhandling, he's very, very good. The shot will need to improve though or else to me he'll be a former NY knick Frank Williams or former GSW Aaron Miles or imagine Denver's Andre Miller who really couldn't shoot or play defense. I'm saying Marcus will be good floor general, but his intangibles will have to do the talking because his limitations have been exposed and it's not certain how much he could actually improve parts of his game considering his body and his basic talents. He'll improve like all young players do, but let's say if he never shoots better than Jason Kidd, but if he at least has a 3 point shot, he can still affect the game due his playmaking ability and by keeping defenses honest when he's left open.</p>

    ----------</p>

    I'm not sure why the Bobcats did that trade other than they overvalue Jason Richardson as much as we GSW fans probably overvalue Jason Richardson because he's such a stud showman and fan's kind of a player. I've always thought this: The Bobcats glaring needs in 2006 wasn't small forward, but the position of shooting guard. They should have taken the most complete prospect in Brandon Roy instead of Adam Morrison to do two things: </p>

    1.) Fill the shooting guard spot and provide a second option as ballhandler/playmaker for rookie Raymond Felton.
    2.) It avoids signing Adam Morrison when you've already got forward Gerald Wallace who could be the East's version of Shawn Marion when it comes to defense and playing big.

    Although I love Morrison back in college and the sheer fact he does not look like a basketball player at all, it just did not make sense to take him as a top 3 nba draft pick since nobody in recent time ever lived up to the Larry Bird or Chris Mullin's style of game while being that slow. We know he's got red flags that are popping up everywhere when the guy shoots the lights out against very athletic and long college defenders, but he cannot make the easy ones at the foul line hovering at 70% or so. What the hell?? To me, that's not a shooter. And that's also why I get nervous about Marco Belinelli who often splits free throws. I mean Peja Stojakavic or Manu Ginobilli my butt, at least the guys hits 85% or 80% at the foul line, whereas Marco, Morrison, Dunleavy, all these supposedly pure shooters can't do the stuff that Peja, Ray Allen, or let's say Reggie Miller can't do when nobody is actively putting a hand in their face and they get two free, gimmee shots. </p>

    And that's the crux that slow perimeter players face, is that if they can't shoot consistently guarded or unguarded or shoot at the foul line consistently, that they won't intitate the types of plays that get them closer to the hoop to make the shot or to at least go to the foul line. They all want to take these stand still, "I'm all alone" wide open shots where nobody is guarding them, but they freak out as if they were at the foul line. It's why I think Dunleavy bricks, why Morrison bricks, and many other sub par overrated shooters brick. It's either Antoine Walker chuckfest or timid "I'm only going to shoot once" style of play, but it's noticeable when they start missing the shots they're supposed to make and they end up with low 40s fg% for the year. To me they all have bad free throw shooting in common. I just hope Belinelli won't brick, but he shouldn't if he's actually quick enough to keep up. Jason Richardson might brick a few if he's thinking about it, but he's a streak shooter like in the mold of Michael Finley back when he was playing like an all-star. He's either off or on from distance, but that's why he has the ability and strength to get inside the lane if that shot ain't there. Slow guys are forced to pull up because they can't beat or overpower defenders with better footwork and they don't have enough body control to make adjustments or avoid the charge or making a turnover.</p>

    But back to Charlotte, yeah they should have taken Brandon Roy in hindsight and just made the roster look like this:</p>

    PG: Raymond Felton/Brevin Knight/Brandon Roy
    SG: Brandon Roy/Matt Carroll/Derek Anderson
    SF: Gerald Wallace/Walter Herman
    PF: Sean May/Brandon Wright
    C: Emeka Okafor/Primoz Brezec

    Jason Richardson isn't a true shooting guard, but maybe the Bobcats took him because he's an all-star to them and he's guaranteed 20ppg with touches at a reasonable fg % unlike some of these other guys they have who are known primarily for defense. My regret is that Jrich has to play next to another Dunleavy like guy when it comes to defense.

    Good for the Warriors though. They get a very good and athletic inside offensive player prospect who can rebound/block shots and pass the ball. He's got finishing ability with either hand (although he's a natural lefty) and great lateral quickness. But the scoop on him is that he is not a good free throw shooter, he is not a good defender, and he's very, very light weight which could also mean he might be weaker than many of today's starting power forwards in the West. His body makes me worry that he'll suffer the same problems that Shareef Abdur Rahim has. He's an all-star, but has no fixed position due to his inability to match up well every night. On the upside, he could very well still be an affective player like Chris Wilcox, Chris Bosh, and such. Nobody said if you were built like Elton Brand or Zach Randolph you could dominate inside a lot better. Just look at a guy by the name of Marcus Fizer where he should have been a sure thing. </p>

    </p>
     
  13. SirLaker

    SirLaker BBW MOD

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SirLaker)</div><div class='quotemain'>He should seriously just retire already...he should have retired last year imo.</div></p>

    I disagree, sure Payton can't play starter minutes anymore, but he'd be one of the top backup pointguards, especially under Nellie's system. The Warriors could use another perimeter defender, especially if they end up dealing Pietrus. </p>

    It's not going to be an issue of playing time for Payton. He already knows he'll have to accept a lesser role, but he can still have a positive impact for any team in the league. </p>

    </p>

    </div></p>

    Meh. It's better to retire when you are on top and after you've finally won a ring after so any years. That was the only reason I thought he was still in the league.</p>

    </p>
     
  14. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SirLaker)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SirLaker)</div><div class='quotemain'>He should seriously just retire already...he should have retired last year imo.</div></p>

    I disagree, sure Payton can't play starter minutes anymore, but he'd be one of the top backup pointguards, especially under Nellie's system. The Warriors could use another perimeter defender, especially if they end up dealing Pietrus. </p>

    It's not going to be an issue of playing time for Payton. He already knows he'll have to accept a lesser role, but he can still have a positive impact for any team in the league. </p>

    </p>

    </div></p>

    Meh. It's better to retire when you are on top and after you've finally won a ring after so any years. That was the only reason I thought he was still in the league. </p>

    </p> </div>

    He'd return to play for his hometown team. Payton has enjoyed a lot of success, but it's always a childhood dream to play in front of your home crowd. It's a nice way to end his NBA career. </p>
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Nets need another old PG.</p>

    Perfect!</p>

    Seems like he has a choice from several teams that'd want him. Excellent player when younger, now he's a locker room presence and not the worst player you could get for the vet minimum.</p>

    </p>
     
  16. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    Nets need another old PG.</p>

    Perfect!</p>

    Seems like he has a choice from several teams that'd want him. Excellent player when younger, now he's a locker room presence and not the worst player you could get for the vet minimum.</p>

    </p></div>

    I can't tell if you're joking or not. </p>
     
  17. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air Monta)</div><div class='quotemain'>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'> </p>

    ha, right...and we release our "2nd round steal". and at this point, i'd rather have monta than marcus...but we'll just have to wait and see if marcus can put it together this season and be a successful backup point guard...and we'll see if he's learned anything from kidd. </p>

    i still can't believe that Bobcats trade. what was the point of that?? to open up cap space, simultaneously adding a big man? that trade confused the hell outta me.</p>

    but anyways, other than golden state, i think payton should go to pheonix. who knows, maybe he could help out there...considering they need a backup PG pretty badly. </p></div>

    From what I have understood, the trade was already planned before the draft which leads me to think that Belinelli was our pick the whole time. The easy truth is this; Belinelli fits the system more than J-Rich. J-Rich is better suited for a half court offense with someone creating for him. He looks good in the fastbreak game, but he doesn't have the ability to create for himself that Nellie wants. Belinelli can pass well, he can handle the ball, and he is a natural shooter wheras J-Rich is a natural athlete turned basketball player. </p>

    Adding Wright also had to do with the system we run. He's long, he's extremely quick, he has good hands and he is a perfect fit next to Biedrins. The trade in reality let us open up a spot for an amazing pure shooter while adding size without losing any speed or quickness.</p></div>

    </p>

    hm...let's hope you and the warriors are right with that one. JRich was a pretty damn good player</div></p>

    But this is all assuming that Marco Belinelli and Brandan Wright can bring more things to the table than Jrich without losing Jrich's talents in consistent scoring and rebounding. We do know Marco's a shooter from distance and he can finish open lane dunks like he's Kobe Bryant (I don't know about dunking over 7'6 300 lb dudes, though). And Jrich actually was an open court type of player, but just not as a shooting guard for that type of role. He was small forward all the way and now that we got Barnes, Azu, and possibly Pietrus to fill that small forward role, Jrich was just not as needed for this team's makeup (rebounder, cutting off the ball, shooting from outside, inside finisher). There were cheaper alternatives to get those things at the small forward position, in addition to adding a future marquee post player who was undervalued in this year's draft and the addition of one of Europe's exciting top shooting guards. A guard isn't a guard if he can't beat people off the dribble, pass it like a point, and of course... shoot. But we'll see how well he does... I'm still worried about that free throw % of Marco's. 75%... I guess that's average for a guard, maybe? More importantly can he get to the foul line a lot more than Jrich? He can't get to the foul line unless they foul him as he's shooting from a distance a la Reggie Miller with the leg kickout and leaning in on the pump fake.</p>
     
  18. NJNetz

    NJNetz BBW Banned

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    Here's an update.</p>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><u>Gary Payton</u>, unsigned for 2007-08 after playing last season with the Miami Heat , will make a decision about his future within the next week, his agent said Friday. One option he might consider would be to try to play an 18th and final NBA season with the hometown Golden State Warriors . Aaron Goodwin said Payton is training to stay in shape, but he has not settled on which direction to take his career. "He's deciding if he's going to take another crack at playing one more season, or maybe go to Seattle and work in some sort of management position, or go into TV color commentary," Goodwin said</div></p>

    http://www.insidebayarea.com/search/ci_6837171?IADID</p>
     
  19. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Seattle would be a good place for him now that he's already won a ring. I mean he's been the face of the franchise for years. He could then retire as a Sonic and eventually become a GM one day and basically get hired because of fame. </p>
     

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