Here's a chart of gallup polls on the subject through 2010. most recently of those polled "god created man in present form" is 40%, "evolution happened but was guided by god" is 38%, so belief in evolution among religious people is at least getting really close to 50% http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/Four-Americans-Believe-Strict-Creationism.aspx
I'll choose to go for it. Just because god knows what you did, done and will do; doesn't stop use from having free will. It just means he allows it to happen, good or bad. And I think that's pretty cool.
But take that conclusion further. If God is both timeless and your creator, he knew what you would do before you were even a speck in your father's eye. Before he even set your life in motion. He's not just allowing you to do whatever you want -- he knew where your life would go before you even started going there. That's not free will -- that's following a preordained script!
Yes if you are in mans eyes. But let's say u have an ant farm. They are doing their thing and you watch it objectively without prejudice. And u won't interfere which still allows them do whatever. You still know they will die at a specific time and how they will reproduce, build, etc. now if they didn't have free will, you would be their queen giving them orders and they just do without question, like robots. God has a script, but our free will is his masterpiece. He is so great that everything was planned, even with free will. The ultimate scientist!
Your metaphor includes two very important differences: I did not create the ants from scratch, and I am not omniscient. These two differences make it unusable for this situation, unless you are proposing that God is a) not the creator of man, and b) does not know whether any individual's actions will lead them to heaven or hell in the long run. But I'm guessing you are NOT proposing those things, so my dilemma still stands.
No I'm using the ant farm as a metaphor. What I mean is that ou created the situation and will know the outcome and actually can alter outcome any way you choose. Yet you don't control them. You just know what they will do.
you don't know what the ants are going to do specifically. And the only way you know how they might build or reproduce is by having read of others studying the patterns of ants. So the metaphor again fails. Unless god wasable to look at a different planet, that a different god made, to judge how humans would act.
If you know what they will do BEFORE you create them, their eventual fate is completely on your shoulders.
Alright, I will not concur yet because i want to think about this one. I do understand your question; but I really want to think of the right answer. I know what I feel, but I don't know how to explain it yet. Good question btw.
Hey I found Craig's answer to free will. Wanna read it? There is more, but I took out a little just to give his interpretation to Omnipotent.
In this example, God may be omnipotent, but he lacks both timelessness and omniscience. If he creates humans and sets them loose to do what they will, without knowing their eventual choices and eternal fate, he doesn't actually know all things at all times.
Equating "knowledgeable" with "arrogance" is the defense mechanism of an unsure mind. I don't take it personally and I hope you don't take it personally when I try to drag you into the 20th century by telling you there is no god. I wouldn't bother if I thought you weren't worth it. As for believers in mythical super-beings lacking sophistication I would think that's pretty obvious, but it's no big deal. Just a word that has been twisted from it's original meaning to become more of an insult than a compliment.
Free will cannot exist in concert with coercion. Threat of damnation and hellfire vs life in heaven, 72 virgins...is about as coercive as one can be. Nobody who believes in god(s) has free will.
Trip I think I got the answer... I was thinking about this for a while; and it was a very very good question. Props to you on that, btw. Okay so this is the question I think you are trying to say: 1.) God is "all knowing" 2.) You cannot know all, if you give free will. 3.) Therefor God did not give us "free will" So this got really confusing until I actually wrote this out and solved each problem separately. To answer 1.) It could be possible that since God created the universe; his very essence is outside the realm of the universe. Basically he is not bound by the laws of physics or science in the Universe. Therefor time, gravity, mass, etc. aren't binding. So if you look at this metaphorically; picture the universe under "his microscope" a grand microscope that can see all, know all from beginning to end. That would mean he is "all knowing". To answer 2.) The universe is bound to all the scientific laws and standards. Gravity, light, space and time cannot be changed. An apple is still an apple and can't be a giraffe. That wouldn't make sense. So in this "petri dish" called the universe; must abide to all logical laws, right? To answer 3.) Well if God allows life to exist in this universe; then free will must be given. You cannot bend these laws in this dish. Therefor, God gave us free will. So basically; his choice to give us life on this universe means that he just put us in this petri dish. And he can see all because he is still outside this boundary outside the "universe". This can also explain why Angels don't have free will. They exist outside the universe in his realm and because he is all-knowing, it is impossible for them to have a "free-will". I hope this explains it. I think it makes a lot of sense. I would like a physicist like you to break this down and tell me is this possible, or will I need to go back to the drawing board.
And wait now unlocking this just unlocked so many other mysteries I have too. 1.) If God cast out the Devil from Heaven and bound him to the Universe; then he too is bound to the laws of the Universe. That would explain that he doesn't know the future and will not know when the Rapture comes. 2.) Also, the travesty on this planet like the slaughters in the name of God; was the "free will" of his people. Saying take back your land and purify it; doesn't mean kill everyone in sight. It just means take back the land. The people chose how they do it. 3.) Evil on this planet is caused because we choose to be evil. We have the free-will to kill millions and God cannot interfere. 4.) And the reason there is the "trinity" is there still needs to be connection with God; so he implants a spirit to have communication with us; therefor we have God in us. This is also the reason Jesus is God in the flesh. It's basically God coming to Earth and limited to the laws of our universe. 5.) This is also an explanation of "imperfection" because once again, the universe is bound by the laws of the universe. So sin can exist, even if God exists. The moral argument would be met. And to go even further. God is perfect; but no matter how much power he has; he must abide by the laws of the universe so he cannot control moral imperfection on this universe. Maybe because he loves us soooo much; he actually came down and died for ALL SINS; to bear ALL PAIN; with everyone of us in mind! That means all the genocide, rape whatever was put on his perfect being, so he too can bear our weight and pay for this imperfection with his own pure blood.
if god knows what my choices will be (looking from "outside" at block spacetime or whatever) then my choices are already determined before i make them. if my choices are already determined how can i have free will?
There's a difference between knowing the decisions you make and choosing the decisions you make. God is Almighty, if He chooses to make a world He's sovereign over and also wants to give you the ability to choose and have free will then He can and He has. God did not create robots, the way God made us is the only way we'll ever know true genuine love.
not the point. if i have free will god shouldn't be able to know what i will do before i do it from any perspective. free will is not compatable with (total) omniscience.
No that's not right. And scientifically you can metaphorically use it like a microscope. You can know what bacteria will do in the petri dish, you can add things to promote behavior, but you will have no control over the bacteria. Even knowing what they do, knowing what they will do before you put them there and being able to observe them 3 dimensionally; can explain all knowing.
