Case closed... Your opinion on Craig don't fit that criteria, except for the last statement. Glad you now recognize that Craig is sophisticated. Follow along.
Google for "history of violence," and you'll find numerous scholarly articles about violence in ancient times. The Bible is full of ancient fairy tales of the gory sort.
I'm not gonna answer the lame digs at religion, since I don't believe in religion. People kill because they know how morally wrong it is. And you are basing "moral basis" for murder. Of course killing 1 person to spare 5 can be argued if it's morally right. But everyone you talk to in the entire planet; they think that baseless killing is morally wrong. So don't try and sway the absolute of "Killing" and "Justify Killing". Of course that's different. Thanks for playing... BTW... Here is a good Philosophy lecture on justified "Murder". But that is completely irrelevant to my original argument.
People have always murdered for the same things. Jealous of something someone else has, over a woman, over territory, preemptive strike, etc.
Yes, but like I said, you ask every person on the planet, and ask them "Is killing moral"? And they will agree "no". We aren't debating if it's justified; we are debating if everyone thinks it's moral.
Are you trying to bury the original argument? Everyone knows about violence and justified destruction. One of the biggest Murderer in Atheism "Stalin" who also, in his own mind, justifiably murdered millions of people. So what? I ask you one more time. Do you agree that if you ask everyone on the planet "Is killing moral"? Will they say yes?
I think the question would be answered differently by people of different cultures. Romans fed Christians to the lions and sport was gladiators fighting to the death. The Maya practiced human sacrifice. Other cultures shrink heads. The native Americans had wars that were proportionally 20x worse than Stalin. Ethnic cleansing mass killings by Pol Pot just 30 years ago. Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda less than 20 years ago. Ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia less than 15 years ago. Religious & ethnic civil war in Iraq ongoing. Ask the killers if what they did was moral, and they'll say yes.
You either haven't actually known very many people in your life or they all came from the same neighborhood. Hitler did not think killing was morally wrong, nor did Bush, Bushjr, nor does Obama. They're perfectly fine with it on a mass scale in fact. Perry's biggest disappointment is he won't get to give the order to bomb Iran. I'm fairly certain that there is nothing you can ask the world and get the same answer from everyone. We're not really all that much alike. Take me. Killing in self-defense or for revenge are moral. Maybe even mandatory in some situations. Bombing populations definitely not moral. Killing for money or power definitely not moral. Generally speaking, killing other people is what stupid people do. Smart people find simpler ways to reach their desired outcome.
I agree. I'm convinced that if the United States had been more diligent in working with Osama Bin Laden to find some sort of common ground, 9-11 could have completely been avoided. It's so sad that we totally missed that critical opportunity.
You're being sarcastic but OBL was pretty much Made by the USA, as was Saddam, as was the Shah of Iran, as was Gaddaffi, as was Mubarek... 9/11 was completely avoidable. OBL was seeking revenge for atrocities committed by our government and our military and our spies against Arab civilians. Unfortunately for American civilians, he targeted us rather than take a higher moral ground than our government did. Smart people wouldn't bomb Arab civilians and arm their enemies. Smart people would leave them be, leave their property be, leave their religion be, leave their oilfields be.
Ah, shucks. I think you're on to something here. We could just as well have been playing these guys in chess, as opposed to maddening them into to committing atrocities against their own people.....and us, as well.
No, they were strawmen, which you objected to when Denny strayed a bit so I left them out. But I know people who don't want love or peace, too.
Aaaand since this thread has now fallen completely off the tracks, here is some pi. [video=youtube;27OQfd_Sq4c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27OQfd_Sq4c[/video]
