This guy is way more articulate than me and pretty much sums up my thoughts on morality later in this video: [video=youtube;nRD-ybmTIQg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRD-ybmTIQg&feature=g-u-u&context=G2745813FUAAAAAAAAAA[/video] Let's just be real here, atheists can't justify morality, or much of anything for that matter.
all morals can easily change given different circumstances a god fearing soldier will still stick a knife in his enemies throat, or drop a bomb on a town full of women and children.... and everyone in the world tells lies to spare peoples feelings humans have justified killing/lying/etc for as long as they have felt bad about it, before that, they didnt have to
On the flip side, religious zealots are capable of using their god to justify whatever the hell they want. I'll take the side with more thoughtfulness and less self-righteousness, thank you very much.
Not really, because God’s laws are set in stone (literally). If someone bends or twists these laws for their own benefit they are still breaking them. “Religion” has nothing to do with God or the existence of God. Saying you disbelieve in God because of “religious zealots” is akin to me saying I don’t believe in atheists because I disbelieve in atheism. It’s not rational. Denying a Creator goes against, science, reason and logic. But to each their own. I’m currently reading this book defending the Christian faith and theism in general. If you’re open to truth I suggest giving it a read. If you don’t at least walk away second guessing the naturalist worldview then I’d say you’re fooling yourself. http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Eno...5615/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326994221&sr=8-1
Hey, compared to most of the atheists I've debated over the years this is actually quite tame. And free of name calling! But really, this book gives some of the strongest arguments for theism I've seen thus far. I highly recommend it if you're searching for truth.
denying a creator goes against science and logic? huh. ok. Where are these laws that are literally set in stone? And why is it that many seem to call on either the old or new testament to fit their argument, while going against one or another if it doesn't fit. So we no longer stone people, because of the new, but gays are still bad because of the old and such. Seems convenient, I guess.
Given your argument style in this thread ("it says so in the bible", "god says so" or "it's not in the bible, so that hypothetical isn't possible"), how is it possible to debate anyone and expect any results. You believe in god and the bible, and I'm fine with that, but if you want to have a debate with an atheist (or anyone), why don't you get into WHY the bible states what it does, or WHY god says what he does, rather than just "the bible says X"? You might actually get somewhere.
There's a stark difference between murder and justice, though. Who am I to tell God that wiping out those people groups wasn't justified? This gets back to the His ways are far above my ways thingy. Let's just say I'll trust His judgement on the matters.
Where have I said anywhere in these threads I’ve posted in the things you’ve claimed? I don’t recall once saying “Cuz the Bible says so!”. I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. And I believe the evidence points to a Biblical worldview. In past threads I’ve given reasons why I believe this to be true. When people have disagreed I haven’t ever said “well God says so, so you’re wrong!”. I try to reason, even though by my own admission I can be quite biased. But that’s only because I’m quite literally 100% sure that the Gospel of the Lord Jesus is true, not only through reason and evidence but through personal experience and testimony. I wasn’t only a believer either. I asked Jesus into my heart at a young age but I would describe my life as anything resembling a Christian lifestyle. I consider myself a wretched sinner in need of a savior, as does the rest of humanity.
The laws I was referring to are the 10 commandments God gave to Moses on Mount Sinai. Some ignorant Christians claim gay people are bad, nowhere does God claim they are bad (no more than anyone else) or that He "hates ***s". God hates sin, not the sinner. God loves homosexuals just as much as He loves anyone else. You may ask why people are born gay, well I say it's the result of a broken, sinful world. People don't choose to be born blind, or crippled or handicapped either. You have to work with the cards given to you. God has a plan of salvation for everyone, whether or not you choose to be a part of that plan is up to you.
So if those are the laws to follow, the only laws, set in stone, why do many religious people lean on the bible to say gays can not be married? I don't see that one in the 10 commandments anywhere.
My bad on that one. I was Mixing people up from yesterday. Looking back, it was someone else's response to a hypothetical.
With the advent of Jesus, God gave us the New Testament, which effectively transcends the old Law. One man + one woman = marriage in God's eyes.
you must have missed what i was responding to. i was pointing out that an intelligent person shouldn't need to refer to the bible to know if they should go around murdering people or not. they should be able to figure that out using their own common sense. in actuality christians form most of their moral views (those not involving sex anyway) the same way atheists do.
They are the only laws in the sense that every other law can be attributed to them. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" can be tied in to not having sexual relations with the same gender. If God were to give us every detail on the stone tablets they would be pretty exhaustive. But the Bible gives us everything we need to know to uphold the law. And Jesus came to show us that we can't live up to the law or God's holy standards. After all if you break one law, you've broken them all. Jesus atoned for the sins of the world by become sin for us and dying to wash us clean of those sins. After all, the penalty of sin is death. Jesus literally died for our sins and then rose again and defeated death to give us the same glory that He has received from God the Father. That's why Gospel literally means "good news". There are hundreds of prophecies in the OT regarding the coming of Jesus and how He would redeem mankind.
