Suns, U kidding me? well i agree with you that its a very young and talented team. Butta that does not mean Suns will be a champion contenter next season. Here is why. 1. Lack of sizes 2. Too much me first player.Especially Q(i live in LA, have had watched some clippers game,he took too many wild shot in last few seasons. 3. Chemistry is unknown. 4. In wild wild western conference. 5. NO leadership(neither nash,amare,marion arent leader type of players)
In a few years The Suns will be contenders but not right now. They are a young and talented team with Amare, Marion, Johnson, and Quentin. Steve Nash is also a pure point guard which mneans pass first shoot second. To whoever said that you need a good center to compete in the West your wrong. Look at this. Spurs: Rasho T-Wolves:Olowokandi/Ervin(doesnt matter they both suck) Kings: Brad Miller So the top 3 teams only the kings have a good center. Im not sure if Brad is going to play Center but he should.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post">In a few years The Suns will be contenders but not right now. They are a young and talented team with Amare, Marion, Johnson, and Quentin. Steve Nash is also a pure point guard which mneans pass first shoot second. To whoever said that you need a good center to compete in the West your wrong. Look at this. Spurs: Rasho T-Wolves:Olowokandi/Ervin(doesnt matter they both suck) Kings: Brad Miller So the top 3 teams only the kings have a good center. Im not sure if Brad is going to play Center but he should.</div> In addition...Dallas doesn't have a center, but they rely on their fast-paced game...which in turn would kill any kind of energy someone like Shaq has.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UrbanLegend:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't win the west with Marion as your PF. PERIOD, no more.</div> are you kidding me?? obviously you havent been watching too much of the Suns lately, because Shawn Marion is one of the most underated players in basketball in my opinion..He is at least in the top 5 of the best 2 way players in the NBA. And as for whether or not the Suns will be contenders...Nash and Q Rich are 2 great guards who are capable of leading a team. Especially with Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudamire(who is very athletic, but has absolutely no fundamentals) I'd stick them in my western conference power rankings behind the twolves, spurs, kings, rockets, and nuggets
If the Suns can package Matix in a deal for Damp I would think they can make a run...In that deal they could probably get Speedy Claxton (nice backup PG)...
Dampier got a wayyy overpaid contract this year...hopefully the suns wont want to pick up that kind of a deal
The most accurate projected line up will be C - Voshkul PF - Stoudemire SF - Marion SG - Joe PG - Nash That lineup isn't taking you anywhere. Nowadays, you need a quality center or a quality power foward to go far. Stoudemire is quality, but everything is harder in the playoffs as he's eventually going to face Garnett or Duncan's team at that stage, and either would bulldoze the Suns because they have experience, dominance, leadership, and superiority over Stoudemire. The Mavericks had a way better lineup than that, and they easily got eliminated countless times. You don't just say "hey, there's 4 or 5 great players in the starting line up so they will automatically be conteders". If Stoudemire had possessed the things Garnett and Duncan had, then no doubt would the Suns be contenders, but they aren't.
Amare and Stever are the only reliable members on that roster IMO. I dont think Marion is that great.....
Half of you guys are crazy. Trenchteam I had respect for you man and you say Marion is not a player? Please! This guy consistently averages 19-20 9-10 a game, and he is also always in the top 5 in steals and was first in that category last year. Marion is the type of player every team needs. He is a great defender (always guards teams best players) is consistent, and probably trhe best sf in the league. Now how are the Suns not contenders, and how are they not getting any respect? You do not need a legit center in the West anymore. Is Ervin Johnson gonna kill the Suns. Don't get me wrong Yao, B. Miller, are quality players but they are not Shaq. The Suns starting lineup is excellent. Four of these guys could be All-Stars and Amare will definetly (definetly) be one this year. They are a pretty good defensive team (with the exception of Nash and sometimes Q) and I beleive that they will play solid team defense. You cannot double anyone on this team and a young team that can run and gun will scare anyone in the aging West. The Kings are still absoulutely contenders but they are aging and don't Scare teams like they used to. Bibby and Nash are about equal, Joe Johnson and D. Christie are about equal, Marion is equal if not better then Peja, and you could make the arguement that C-Webb is equal to Aare but I don't think that is the case. B. Miller is definetly better then anybody we throw at you at Center right now, but we will definetly add more depth to that position. Now the bench, the Suns have the definit advantage Barbosa (not an average player, but a future starter and possible all-star), Q (because he is the one that will come off the bench), Lampe (who is much improved after working in Phoenix ALL summer), Casey J, the hustling rookie Vroman. Come on guys how are the Suns not legit. The Wolves have a very deep team and the 2nd best player in the league (Duncan) but the Suns come very close. Cassell is one year older, so is Spree, and Johnson and or Q and Nash match up very well here, they have a better backcourt no doubt. Marion and Amare match up very well with the froncourt. Both of these teams are missing a Center. I deninetly see San Antone as the favorite in the West and lets not even mention the Lakers please. Kobe is a great player but cannot do it without Shaq. Remember 2 years ago when Shaq was injured in the regualr season, what did the Lakers do? NOTHING! They have absouletly no Froncourt and Vlade Divac scares nobody. He plays like he is 50, though still a great passer and decent player for 20-25 mpg. The LAkers have great swinmen (Odom, Grant) but no size. If a team needs to worry about size in the West it is the Lakers. Just some scenerios I threw at you guys. Give me a good arguement.
Well, since the Lakers have been pulled into this debate...don't count them out of the West yet. First off, Tim Duncan doesn't play center. Rasho Nesterovic does, and I believe that Vlade would easily take him...and so could Horace Grant. So could Brian Grant. Now, if we do get Malone back...he could hold Duncan better than anyone else, including Shaq. Did you guys ever see Malone's excellent defense on Shaq in the scrimmages the Lakers held last year? They showed a few on SportsCenter...and that was about the time I came to the conclusion that Malone could keep Shaq away from the rim better than anyone else. You say Malone has bad knees? Well, so does Duncan, guys. Now, who's left to put the Spurs over the Lakers? Parker? I really doubt that...because now, without the triangle offense, Payton's game will be strong...probably stronger than Tony's. Now who's going to match up with Kobe and Odom? See, the Spurs aren't as strong as you believe...OR the Lakers aren't as weak as everyone makes them out to be. Same with Minnesota...Ervin Johnson isn't that tough of a center, and we all know how bad Olowokandi is. The Kings have Miller...but they choke. Dallas doesn't even have a center, and they lost Nash. Come on...just because Shaq is gone...it doesn't mean the Lakers are that much worse, because IMO, they are going to be better off. Shaq did score, yes...but his defense was probably the laziest in the league in these last two years. Put Vlade, Brian Grant and Horace Grant in the paint, and they can play better defense. Who cares if they can't score like Shaq...that's why the Lakers kept Kobe and Payton, and picked up Lamar Odom. They've got an oversized SF...the missing piece to this team for quite some time now...who can rebound easily over any other SF's, and some PF's also. Don't count the Lakers out. They'll surprise everyone. I'm not saying this because I'm a fan...I'm saying this because the Lakers have really disappointed me, especially Shaq last season...and I really believe this next season is going to be their biggest opportunity to prove everyone wrong. I just can't wait...
I can't wait either. To prove you wrong , because you assume to much. So Payton complained the triangle offense made him a bad player, let me make an assuption. Maybe aged has hurt him and he is a bad player. All the sudden Payton leaves the triangle and he is great? Anbody can stop Odom. Odom is a solid player but when you play an elite team like the T-Wolves KG destroys Odom. From many sources such as ESPN, FOX, and CNNSI Malone is not thinking of returning to La La Land. What happens then? Odom way, way, (way) undersized at the 4, Butler playing the 3. You guys will get destroye in the paint. Even if you get Malone you are still way undersized. Vlade is not a player anymore, if he was why would the Kings give him up without question. He can only play 20-30 minutes max anymore. So for a good 20 mpg you have Brian Grant at 6'9 and 240 lbs. Shaq played great D. He caused players to change their shots in the lane. Was a force to be reckoned with in the middle. How do you think the Pistons beat the Lakers last year. They were a great shooting team. No one drove on the Lakers, now the opposite will happen, everyone will drive on the Lakers. I don't see you guys as an elite team. Kobe will get doubled constantly and will struggle some this season, but he is still great. I see him having a good year. Playoffs, yes, Contention for a ring, I just don't see it happening. I still do have great respect for the Lakers though.
Marion is a top player... He is a decent powerforward but its clear he would excel more at the small forward position. How tall is he? a bit taller than carter i believe.. 6'8 or so.. He rebounds great... very capable of averaging a double double.. Amare has so much potential and will only get better. Addition of Nash is a BIG plus. Quentin richardson will also be good, championship contender.. not likely, bu tthe potential is there for the future.
I see them as contenders, but not just because there one of my favorite teams. They would be in my top three if they had a legit center. Amare has explained this many times he is a PF not a center so he's not willing to play center because he knows he's much more of a force at PF. Shawn Marion is a good defender and has a good shot but it looks wierd and he is way to small to play PF so count him out of the PF/C rotation. The centers they have to work with are Jake Voskuhl, Zarko Cabarkapa, Maciej Lampe, Jackson Vroman and possibly Keon Clark if he signs with them he is on there roster on NBA.com. Quentin Richardson is a stellar player and possibly an allstar, he was in the voting last year, and despite shooting roughly 40% (.398) from the field he had career high averages in Points: 17.2 Rebounds: 6.4 Assists: 2.1 and Steals: 1.03. Q is a good player but he doesnt have the greatest shot selection, and him and Hair Canada make a great backcourt. Steve Nash is a veteran point gaurd with experience and on top of that he's an allstar, he deserved the contract he got but he's kind of old. He averaged 14.5ppg 3.0rpg 8.8apg in 33.5mpg. All the suns really need is a legit center to be serious contenders other than that there set. Without a center they might make it to the conference semi's maybe even finals if there luck but that maybe stretching it...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, since the Lakers have been pulled into this debate...don't count them out of the West yet. First off, Tim Duncan doesn't play center. Rasho Nesterovic does, and I believe that Vlade would easily take him...and so could Horace Grant. So could Brian Grant. Now, if we do get Malone back...he could hold Duncan better than anyone else, including Shaq. Did you guys ever see Malone's excellent defense on Shaq in the scrimmages the Lakers held last year? They showed a few on SportsCenter...and that was about the time I came to the conclusion that Malone could keep Shaq away from the rim better than anyone else. You say Malone has bad knees? Well, so does Duncan, guys. Now, who's left to put the Spurs over the Lakers? Parker? I really doubt that...because now, without the triangle offense, Payton's game will be strong...probably stronger than Tony's. Now who's going to match up with Kobe and Odom? See, the Spurs aren't as strong as you believe...OR the Lakers aren't as weak as everyone makes them out to be. Same with Minnesota...Ervin Johnson isn't that tough of a center, and we all know how bad Olowokandi is. The Kings have Miller...but they choke. Dallas doesn't even have a center, and they lost Nash. Come on...just because Shaq is gone...it doesn't mean the Lakers are that much worse, because IMO, they are going to be better off. Shaq did score, yes...but his defense was probably the laziest in the league in these last two years. Put Vlade, Brian Grant and Horace Grant in the paint, and they can play better defense. Who cares if they can't score like Shaq...that's why the Lakers kept Kobe and Payton, and picked up Lamar Odom. They've got an oversized SF...the missing piece to this team for quite some time now...who can rebound easily over any other SF's, and some PF's also. Don't count the Lakers out. They'll surprise everyone. I'm not saying this because I'm a fan...I'm saying this because the Lakers have really disappointed me, especially Shaq last season...and I really believe this next season is going to be their biggest opportunity to prove everyone wrong. I just can't wait...</div> Hey this is about the Suns not the Spurs. why is it that you fear the Spurs? oh i forgot we are the only team that fought with the Lakers toe to toe. You also talked about Tim's Knee but that was in 2000. Malone's knee won't let him play until Dec-Feb plus his knee was different then Tim had. you also said that "the Spurs aren't as strong as you believe" your right about that because they are not strong they are stronger then before. Fear us(Spurs) because the west has got bigger and strong then ever. look at Phoenix,Denver,Utah and Houston
Suns wont even make the playoffs prolly. The maker of this thread needs their brain examined. These is how I see the West. 1. Spurs 2. T-Wolves 3. Kings 4. Nuggets 5. Rockets 6. Lakers 7. Jazz 8. Mavericks This is or something similar going to be the Teams with the best overall record. Suns are like 11th in the West with The Horntes and Grizzlies beating them. How can you (Bahir) even think the Suns have a shot at the title? Please post something inteligent next time.
You can't be a real Spurs fan, because if so...you'd know what I was talking about with Duncan's knees. After knee surgery, it doesn't take long for your knees to start hurting once again...and plus, didn't Duncan mess his left ankle up this last season? Expect more injuries the upcoming season. Back to topic.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post">Suns wont even make the playoffs prolly. The maker of this thread needs their brain examined. These is how I see the West. 1. Spurs 2. T-Wolves 3. Kings 4. Nuggets 5. Rockets 6. Lakers 7. Jazz 8. Mavericks This is or something similar going to be the Teams with the best overall record. Suns are like 11th in the West with The Horntes and Grizzlies beating them. How can you (Bahir) even think the Suns have a shot at the title? Please post something inteligent next time.</div> Wrong. The Suns have more talent then the Lakers, Mavericks and Jazz and I believe they'll finish ahead of them 3. They're an uptempo team now with Nash running the point and with JJ off the bench. The offseason is not over yet. Chris Mihm could still sign, so can Dampier...they're a lot of possibilities. As of now, it looks like Voshkul will take the job. You don't need him doing much. He'll bang around and guard the 2nd best big man, as Amare will guard TD, KG, Randolph, Brand, C-Webb(or Marion). Marion is very versatile and can guard any posistion. Shawn is also very quick with his feet and hands and is a threat to block or steal the ball any time. Marion, Stoudemire and Q will provide the rebounding, so you dont much from Voskul, except for the little things. Their starters should look up heavy minutes, so players like Barbosa, Jacobsen, Lampe can contribute when needed to give rest. Of course, they will get more depth, its just a matter of who. With their starting 5, I think they can be a 6th-4th seed.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chungster:</div><div class="quote_post">The most accurate projected line up will be C - Voshkul PF - Stoudemire SF - Marion SG - Joe PG - Nash That lineup isn't taking you anywhere. Nowadays, you need a quality center or a quality power foward to go far. Stoudemire is quality, but everything is harder in the playoffs as he's eventually going to face Garnett or Duncan's team at that stage, and either would bulldoze the Suns because they have experience, dominance, leadership, and superiority over Stoudemire. The Mavericks had a way better lineup than that, and they easily got eliminated countless times. You don't just say "hey, there's 4 or 5 great players in the starting line up so they will automatically be conteders". If Stoudemire had possessed the things Garnett and Duncan had, then no doubt would the Suns be contenders, but they aren't.</div> Stoudamire held his ground against Duncan last year. He also did well against Garnett. I understand your statement about them lacking a quality starting center....but the fact is that Stoudamire is more than capable of playing well against the likes of Duncan and Garnett. Are they contenders? No. Shawn Marion is a good player, but not designed to be a first option, especially in the half court set. This is where the acquisitions of Nash and Richardson could come into play and help the Suns advance. But they lack the overall talent and depth as the top tier teams in Minnesota, San Antonio, Dallas, Sacramento.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post"> How can you (Bahir) even think the Suns have a shot at the title? Please post something inteligent next time.</div> Well it has certainly gotten some discussion, so why dont you stfu and stop throwing suckerpunches in a normal discussion, when I havent even offended you in any way. Shows just how smart you are. ___________________________________________________ Btw, i think they can go far if they get a decent center.
