Pick a lane, Joe

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Jul 9, 2024.

?

What strategy should we have?

  1. Trade as many vets as possible this Summer, even for low value, to go full tank

    48.9%
  2. Hold on to our vets and play them to maximize value, but still tank

    34.0%
  3. Actually try to win (probably involving replacing Chauncey)

    17.0%
  1. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I’ve been saying it for awhile. Shit or get off the pot. Make up your mind and do a full rebuild or don’t do one at all.

    There’s GM’s that are doing full rebuilds right now and there’s a real possibility they could sniff the playoffs before we do and our team salary should not be where it is right now for a bottom rung pathetic team.
     
  2. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    of course....but that is completely subjective. And around here I'm thinking too many people are overrating the value of the vets. Grant is not worth two first's IMO, especially when at least one of the first's would be unprotected. Neither is Simons or Ayton. Thybulle is neutral value at best. Timelord has negative value

    people were saying that Brogdon should fetch a 1st. But it was Brogdon + a 14th pick + a very possible lottery pick + two 2nds to get Avdija. Portland could end up paying a lot more for Avdija then they did for RoCo and we know that was a bad trade for Portland

    it's hard to be in talent acquiring mode when you paying 114M for those 5 vets, end up playing them, and possibly winning 8-10 extra games next season that moves Portland from 3rd or 4th in the lottery to 12th or 13th
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2024
  3. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    only if you're over the 2nd apron
     
  4. HoopsFanAZ

    HoopsFanAZ Well-Known Member

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    Should be.
    I won’t disagree on that.

    None of the 25 and older Trail Blazers are elite. Maximizing lottery chances has better odds at getting an elite player than trading for one … and definitely better than signing someone else’s elite free agent. The rest of Grant’s prime should be useful for a playoff team. Ant needs better defenders behind him. IMHO, the Blazers need players who are a better fit … ASAP.

    Getting guys like Deni Avdija is a serious win. The Wizards got their goal done. Cronin got his done.

    Play the youth now — practically all but Clingan have a year in the league. Growth is the goal — again. Losing will follow because that’s what happens with excessive youth. If maximizing winning through keeping the current 25+ vets is the goal, then expect to have that goal for awhile. One and done at best.

    [I do believe in Scoot and Sharpe as dudes. Possible all stars. Just not yet.]
     
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  5. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    [rant mode on]

    since drafting Dame, Portland has always had talent. But other than Dame (and Aldridge), it has been limited talent. Role-player talent; flawed talent

    and because of that, the Blazers have forced 3rd/4th options into awkward roles as 1st of 2nd options. Roles way above their talent level. It is treadmill talent; purgatory talent. Going nowhere talent. And they keep holding onto that 3rd/4th tier talent like it's top-tier talent and turning around and asking for that inflated value in trades. They keep straddling fences and never pick a lane

    Portland doesn't need wins over the next 2-3 seasons. What they absolutely need are more high draft picks. But they sure seem poised to trot out a lineup of Scoot-Ant-Avdija-Grant-Ayton while trying to shoot for a 9th-10th seed....and a lousy draft pick. I suppose that would be choosing a lane and the signpost says Stupid Lane and it runs directly into a dead end

    [/rant mode off]
     
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  6. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Yeah thats the problem with this half ass rebuild and dual timelines, in the long run it gives us MANY MORE SEASONS OF LOSING.

    Look at the Thunder, their rebuild was a total of 2 bad losing seasons. We've already had 3 and we're nowhere close to exiting this thing like they quickly did. They now have tons of ways to contend, they had cap space just used to sign their final starter in free agency and they have a boatload of picks to extend their contention.

    Want an example without SGA? Ok - how about Houston, they have a roster stacked with way more talent, more youth with upside, plus they have way more future picks. They had 3 brutal years of losing, with 44 wins the season prior and .500 last season. We're nowhere close to their talent and depth of assets they assembled by going all in with a full rebuild.

    Half ass dual timelines and impatient rebuilds is what the historically inept teams with poor ownership do; see the Bulls/Hornets/Kings/Pistons/Wizards/etc. Now we belong with that group of franchises, and not the winners who dipped allin to a rebuild for a quick few seasons to exit with a likely contender.
     
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  7. BIG Q

    BIG Q Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure that the majority here, that want to to keep Ant (I'm certainly not one), want him to start at PG over Scoot running with Sharpe and the front court you mention. They are so conditioned to watching hero ball that they continue to clamor for it over utilizing the true PG the team just drafted.
     
  8. sheed30

    sheed30 Well-Known Member

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    You used the Rockets which is the worse and an a funniest example you could have used. The Rockets are similar to us currently in more ways than you realize right now.

    How to break is down into simple terms

    1. The Rockets got better within, namely Alperen Şengün, who had a breakout year. Guess what year he just completed, his 3rd. Which is why I mentioned here in this thread it’s a massive year for Sharpe to show us those big improvements in his 3rd coming up. A notable second is Jabari Smith who improved in his second year, which we hope Scoot will improve in his second year.

    2. They went and wasted money on two vets, overpaid for 30 year old Van Fleet, 43 mil a year which is almost double what Ant will make, and also Brooks who is 28. Yet we should just dump all our vets right?

    3. They got a good coach in the offseason, who was in the NBA finals before as a coach and who is clearly better than Billups.

    4. Their previous best player the year before, Jalen Green actually regressed, and is close to how people view Ant here. But I didn’t see you say anything negative about him. So now, by your logic and others, we should just tank and tank until we hit a superstar right?

    Then, at the same time praising Rockets and how they are a lot better than us and have way more upside. Makes no sense at all.

    Let me ask you, Van Fleet and Brooks going to bring a championship to Houston? If you answer is no, and it should be, then by your logic the Rocket did crap and should have continued to tank and tank until they hit a star in the draft right like you want the Blazers to do right?

    Instead you used to the Rockets as an example while failing to realize how silly it looks when you suggest what the Blazers should do.

    if the Blazers had the same record as what Rockets just finished, people in here would be fuming saying we are wasting time, we should just tank, Van Fleet and Brooks won’t get us a chip, Fire Cronin and yada yada.

    Please make some sense, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2024
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  9. BIG Q

    BIG Q Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick interjection in the conversation you two are having, I think what really separates Houston from Portland is that they can attract free agents. They can also entice players to ask for SNT's, which we all know never happens to/in Portland. Don't know who's position this helps, but is a huge factor in acquiring talent.
     
  10. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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    So tanking is the only way to build a contending team?
     
  11. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Who cares what people are thinking. The only thing that matters is what Joe thinks and he clearly seems to think he can get more than just the 1 pick + garbage rumored to be offered by LAL.

    My only point was that the idea that Joe has not picked a lane because he is not willing to drop his pants and bend over for the mighty mighty Lakers - is silly.
     
  12. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Tanking is losing on purpose, isn't it? I don't think anybody wants the Coach or players trying to lose games.

    I think most just want to replace the players we know aren't championship caliber building blocks with players who have potential to be championship caliber building blocks.

    This can be done through Free Agency, Trades, or the draft.

    Free Agency is out. Unless we have already built a better basketball situation than anywhere else in the league.

    Unfortunately there aren't many trades in which players who have proven to be championship level building blocks are traded for players who have proven they are not.

    So you have to trade the guys we think aren't for young guys who aren't proven.

    Yes. Unfortunately that's the only way.
     
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  13. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I actually have more faith in finding the Delano Banton's and Deni's out there with NBA experience and youth more than the crap shoot of the draft although you can hit home runs both ways. We haven't had the kind of youth and length on this team we have now in a long, long time.
     
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  14. sheed30

    sheed30 Well-Known Member

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    I mean, if you talking about the past, maybe so but it could also be who was on that Houston team at the time. Drexler wanted a ring so asked to go to Houston with Hakeem. Barkley wanted the same....fast forward to not to long ago, Yao Ming was on the team when Tmac got traded there....

    Harden was just traded there by OKC, nothing to do with Harden asking to go there from what Ive seen and read. As far as free agent signings, only Dwight Howard is the only name that stands out. That's one person, the rest of the big signings they did were nothing special. I went to check, here is the list of best signings the Rockets have ever done. This was from last year.
    • Kevin Willis.
    • P.J. Tucker. ...
    • Trevor Ariza, the second time. ...
    • Bobby Sura. ...
    • Eddie Johnson. ...
    • Luc Mbah a Moute. ...
    • Jimmy Jackson. ...
    • Mo Taylor
    • Eric Gordon
    • Dwight Howard.
    and more recently, Van Fleet and Brooks.

    No one really wanted Brooks btw, he was not getting lots of offers as a free agent last off season and how his tenure with the Grizz ended.

    Van Fleet was paid and paid so well he couldn't turn it down. Van Fleet is going to be the 20th most paid person in the league next season, $42,846,615 next season, right under.....drum roll...Luka Doncic: $43,031,940 and Anthony Davis $43,219,440

    He would have been dumb to turn that down.

    To think Ant makes 25k per year, Van Fleet makes about 75% more per year and some think Ant is overpaid lol...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2024
  15. sheed30

    sheed30 Well-Known Member

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    lmao, this was funny and basically true
     
  16. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Today's games:

    upload_2024-7-9_15-59-55.png
     
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  17. Whyachi

    Whyachi Well-Known Member

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    the sneaky stealth tank ran off the rails last season. Cronin uses inexperienced players as primary reserves. It was exposed almost immediately. Legit injuries, not fake injuries, became a frequent occurrence.

    the Cronin midseason stealth tank was not available. Joe was low on good Blazers he could trade for a future pick.

    Perhaps this season, the stealth tank phone will ring? The Blazers can then bench everyone, because there's no point in trying to win after Blazer X is gone.

    Let's put Hagans, Minaya, & Rupert in the starting lineup. But remember... bench Rupert immediately if he starts draining shots in a close game.
     
  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    it's easy to use the Lakers as the butt of a joke, but it's deflection, especially since we don't know what was offered or what was rejected, but we have heard plenty of rumors about Cronin wanting two first's for Grant, which would require the Lakers to make one or both unprotected.

    drafting Scoot.....trading Dame and Nurkic...for Ayton & Timelord, after coveting Ayton for 2 years....resigning Grant for 5 years at 33M/year....matching a ridiculous offer sheet to Thybulle....trading two firsts and two 2nds for Avdija....climbing right up close to the tax line for a 21 win team....it's pretty hard to see a single lane in all that. Looks like two or three
     
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  19. BIG Q

    BIG Q Well-Known Member

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    Come on, if Cronin can trade any of Ant, Grant, Thybulle or Williams to contenders that can use the vets, then they are rebuilding. OKC did it, Houston too. Toronto, Chicago and Washington as of now are rebuilding. Move those guys and then let Scoot, Sharpe, Advija, Ayton and Clingan play to win. Would be great to see. Now if Cronin can't move any of the guys listed, and then questionable injuries start popping up, then yes, that is most likely a tank. But injuries happen, ACL's, achilles, broken bones, etc...
     
  20. cheesehoff

    cheesehoff Well-Known Member

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    Only thing worse than a repetitive thread is a post criticizing those threads. Talk about flogging a really, really dead horse!
     
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