Pierce Ranked Lucky #13?!

The Celtics have a coach who led a team to the playoffs with a lone star and some loose change. Imagine how we'll he'll do coaching a team with PP AND experienced players that know their role.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheAnswerIsAi3:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea and some ppl in ur top 10 are good defensive players. HAHAHA! The only reason Tmac is good because he got nobody else on his team at all. Drew Gooden was all he had and Gooden really wasnt great due to not EVER having the ball. Tmac was a loner and Pierce should actually be ahead of him. Tmac doesnt get ahead of Pierce automatically just because he can score 28 ppg on a weak team either and STILL NOT GET EVEN CLOSE TO THE PLAYOFFS. And Iverson was injured alot of games last season but still his team almost made it to the playoffs. Take Tmac outta tha Magic lineup. 10-72 is what their record would be because there trash without Tmac hoggin the ball. Take Iverson outta his lineup....close to makin the playoffs without him at all i would say. Take Pierce outta his lineup and they just plain suck just like Tmacs team. Pierce actually took his team to the playoffs though and thats exactly why hes better than Tmac In My Opinion and Iverson is also. People need to stop loving little Tmac and makin him out to be a good player because wait and see when he goes to the Rockets....hes got a Yao Ming on the team now. Hahaha cant wait until Rockets season starts.</div>

Who above Iverson on my list is a worse defensive player than AI? Nowitzki? Sure, but he can grab boards.

Your basing all of this on last season on T-Mac. What about the other seasons where he brought his teams to the playoffs? The fact is the guy is still better than AI. He can play defense, guard 3 posistions, kill anyone inside or outside and can score 62 points on ya. Put a poll up if you want or check up other message boards. The only people that think Allen Iverson is a better player than Tracy McGrady are AI Lovers.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">U overrating Shaq and Jason Kidd too. They both getting old and they both aint doin smack next year.</div>

I'm sorry, I never knew that you could predict the future. AI Has a body of 38 year old, and Kidd and Shaq have bodies and health of players in their early 30's.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade is in his 2nd year and hes gonna take that team somewhere. Shaq will be on the bench with a hurt toe or just being too tired to play like his excuse for not going to the Olympics. </div>

Once again, I never knew you could predict the future. If you're gonna say Shaq will be on the bench with a hurt toe, then you can just say that AI is gonna be out with a broken body. The guy has been backed up for the past 8 years, and it is starting to take a toll on him, as he is now approaching is 9th year in the L and 30 years of age.

Shaquille O'Neal can ball still. You saw how he raped the Pistons, Wolves, Spurs and Rockets last year in the playoffs. I didn't see Paul Pierce or anyone else do that?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd is sorry now also. Hes got an injury that will more than likely haunt him in every game he plays. Kidd wont be around much longer and we might not be seeing him next season due to his little injury. </div>

Im sorry doctor, I never knew all of this. Do you even know who Jason Kidd is? The guy is triple double in waiting. He's the QB of each team he plays on. When he comes back from injury in December, I guarantee you that this guy will be a top 10 player in the NBA.

I'm seeing a trend in all the player you're bashing. Every single statement you make is about them being hurt. Give me a break kid, watch em when they can ball and you would think twice before you open up your mouth like this.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Think before u run your little mouth Banks because all u think about is stats and the players name</div>

You're telling me to think before I run my mouth? Listen. I can understand you go on telling me that Kidd is not gonna be around much longer and that Shaq will continuesly be hurt...But you're not helping yourself at all by saying AI is a top 5 player when his body is dust at 29. He's more injury prone than them two, and when he plays games with injuries, he's only killing his team.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">dont ever call me a bride of Iverson either because I dont love him like u prolly do some NBA players....Any Questions?</div>

Come back of the year right there.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, AI does not have a 30% FG Pct.

Secondly, You have to expect guys like Pierce and AI to have lower FG% than other stars.

1) They are guards
2) They have to carry their team's offense
3) They get double and triple teamed all the time

Just wait and see this year how much Kobe's goes down, and Pierce's goes up.</div>

Fine, if you wanna play it that way lets look at other players who fit under the same categorys as those 2.

Here as his FG% stats through his first 5 years where he had no Jalen Rose, no Bosh or no Marshall:

98-99: .450
99-00: .465
00-01: .460
01-02: .428
02-03: .467

Tracy McGrady, over the past 4 years:

00-01: .457
01-02: .451
02-03: .457
03-04: .417

Pierece's stats from 2 Point rage and overall FG% are decent, but his 3 PT% is horredenous. And AI's FG% is just flat out ugly.

But, You're right, despite the fact that VC and T-Mac had a much higher FG% in the same situations as Pierce and AI are/were in over their careers, there's no reason for them to average such a low FG%.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Iversons will go up this year because last year he played some games hurt and actually started going down in point average and FG</div>

Doesn't he always play hurt?

 

lol...some of you guys are acting like that list was made up by david stern himself.

its just some blowhard thats made up some second rate list. his opinion doesnt deserve this much argument and discussion lol

my top 25 list is just as valid as his. lets not get bent out of shape. i agree pierce was horribly robbed in that list. but anyone with half a bball IQ can see that list is brutal so who cares right?

ps. i agree with shape...ray ray at 22 is a much greater injustice then PP at 13

 

2 days, no response, arguement won.

 

I'm not exactly sure who you think you're calling out Banks, but since you responded to one of my posts, here's my response:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince Can play both ends of the court, he's just no Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest. <font color="DarkRed">Carter has improved his defense over the past couple of seasons, and has learned to become an average defender.</font>


Quote:
Particularly given his heavily spotted injury history.



Vince having past injuries isn't really relevant on the topic of who's better overall. <font color="Blue">Vince only missed 3 games last year due to previous injuries, and the other 6 were because of the freak accident with Bowen.</font>

-----

I personally think Vince is better overall than Pierce because Pierce turns the ball way too many times for a GF, and he shoots poorly. Vince is a very good shooter, <u>clutch,</u> and he can make any type of shots fluently and consistantly.</div>
------------------------------------------------

Where to start:

<font color="DarkRed">Carter has improved his defense over the past couple of seasons, and has <u>learned</u> to become an <u>average</u> defender.</font>

And yet Raptors fans continue to put him in the Superstar ranking of the league, instead of just being a star in the league, Like Paul Pierce.

Vince having past injuries isn't really relevant on the topic of who's better overall

Please tell me you aren't serious? Reliability and the ability to contribute to your team on a regular basis are very much a factor in any players status, particularly when you're as important to a teams success as VC is in Toronto.

In finishing that thought:

<font color="Blue">Vince only missed 3 games last year due to previous injuries, and the other 6 were because of the freak accident with Bowen.</font>

That means he missed 9 games, PERIOD. If your going to make lame excuses of freak accidents, let's keep in mind that Paul Pierce was stabbed 14 times and never missed a game. You don't get anymore "freak" than that. Add to that the fact that he's missed 41 games over the last 3 years and you've got a spotty injury history that has to be a negative towards his ranking.

<u>clutch,</u>

You don't want to use that comparison when Pierce is involved, unless of course you'd like to be reminded of who's led or been at the top of the league in 4th Quarter scoring the last few years. I'll give you a hint, it's not Vince Carter.


I'll conceed that Pierce has had a poor shooting % and last year, turned the ball over too much. Part of Pierce's FG% issues stems from the assinine offense that OB employed while coach. However, I'm not going to use that as an excuse, Players are responsible for the shots they jack up and PP needs to work on better selection.

The turnover issue is also a point that PP needs to work on and a large reason for it is the constant roster changes last season and a partial lack of not trusting his teammates with the ball. That and the usual issue of lack of stability at the PG position, which inevitably led to PP having more touches than the average SG and therefore the more you touch the ball....well you get where I'm going with this.

I don't know who you were talking to when you made that remark that you had won an arguement, but the attitude doesn't set well with me. Not everyone comes here everyday, some only a few times a week.

If it was at me, I'll remind you that I'm a mod and have more responsibilities than responding to every post where someone responds to something I've said.

Regardless, you could have taken the high road and walked away thinking that you had made your point, instead of lowering yourself to a taunt, as well as providing a post that doesn't meet JBB standards of providing intelligent conversation.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Where to start:

<font color="DarkRed">Carter has improved his defense over the past couple of seasons, and has <u>learned</u> to become an <u>average</u> defender.</font>

And yet Raptors fans continue to put him in the Superstar ranking of the league, instead of just being a star in the league, Like Paul Pierce.</div>

I don't really how see your post is talking about his defense. Real raps fans know he isn't a superstar. They know what he is. He's not a superstar. His defense is not orrific, but its average.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><font color="Blue">Vince only missed 3 games last year due to previous injuries, and the other 6 were because of the freak accident with Bowen.</font>

 

Good response. I don't really think the Duncan part is on point, because the reason I bring up VC missing games is because of his history. However, he was largely healthy last year, so I'll consent that one.

I still believe that PP is the better player, but since they're both quality players, we might as well let it go.

As far as the issue with the other poster, I want to thank you for keeping it clean on the board. With that said, I'd recommend what we always do in a situation like that: Take it to PM <font color="DarkRed"><font size="1">(but please keep in mind that the object of taking it to PM's is to talk it out.

I think I know you well enough to know you probably won't use some kind of immature, profanity laden attack via PM, but I throw that disclaimer out there because we've had issues with posters lately who are using the PM system to harrass other posters)</font>.</font>

If there is something said on the boards that you feel is offensive towards you, use the report button, that way you don't get in any trouble for responding inappropriately. We'll weed the bad apples out from there.

All that said, thanks for making good points about VC. I'll <u>try </u> not to hold so much of his past against him this season.

 

Here is my list:

1.) Duncan :thumbsup:
2.) Shaq :thumbsup:
3.) Garnett
4.) Kobe :thumbsdow
5.) McGrady :thumbsup:
6.) Norwitzski :thumbsup:
7.) Iverson :thumbsdow
8.) Pierce :thumbsup:
9.) O'Neal :thumbsdow
10.) Carter :thumbsdow
11.) Kidd :thumbsdow
12.) Allen :thumbsdow
13.) Anthony :thumbsup:
14.) Yao :thumbsup:
15.) James

Now there is a lot of players on this list that I do not like (as indicated by the icon), but I feel that these players have the most impact on their teams success.

Paul Pierce is vastly underrated and I hope that the addition of Payton and the continued development of some of the other younger players (especially Ricky Davis) will give Pierce the opportunity to shoot more high percentage shots.

Pierce in my opinion is the second best small forward in the league behind Dirk Norwitzski (McGrady is a two guard). Pierce is capable of beating you offensively in every way, three pointers, penetration, post up, free throw line, transition, etc. He just hasn't had the help to get him over the top. That isn't a knock on him, it is more of a knock on Celtic management.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That isn't a knock on him, it is more of a knock on Celtic management.</div>

Celtic management has been horrible for a while, IMO, starting to decline in the ML years. Bad previous owner in Gaston, Pitino set the franchise back, Wallace has made more bad moves than good moves as GM and OB, well I'm not even going to get into him. I think we all know how I feel about him at this point.

Pierce has some work to to on his game, no doubt though. I think a better pg situation will help that enormously, because PP won't have to have his hands on the ball so much.

Iron Shiek, Question:
I understand the up and down thumbs. What do the shrugging icons mean to you?

Are they players you just don't really like or dislike?

Also: I was surprised that you had Anthony in your list and not Jermaine O'Neal. However, alot of people look at Indy's success alot like Detriots success: It's largely a compilation of above average players that work well as a team. Any chance you could share your thoughts on the Anthony pick?

I think he'll be a great player in the league (I think he still has some semi-minor maturity issues, but what player his age usually doesn't). He's already very good.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Iron Shiek:</div><div class="quote_post">Here is my list:

1.) Duncan :thumbsup:
2.) Shaq :thumbsup:
3.) Garnett
4.) Kobe :thumbsdow
5.) McGrady :thumbsup:
6.) Norwitzski :thumbsup:
7.) Iverson :thumbsdow
8.) Pierce :thumbsup:
9.) O'Neal :thumbsdow
10.) Carter :thumbsdow
11.) Kidd :thumbsdow
12.) Allen :thumbsdow
13.) Anthony :thumbsup:
14.) Yao :thumbsup:
15.) James
</div>

That is about as good of a list as I've ever seen. Good job!

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">
Also: I was surprised that you had Anthony in your list and not Jermaine O'Neal.</div>

Jermaine O'neal was #9 on his list.

I don't get why people put Lebron and Carmello on their lists, it's ridiculous. If you think about it, there are a lot of people at the pg position that I would put ahead of those two. Nearly all the top 5 pgs. Nash is a better player, so is Marbury, Baron Davis, possibly even Billups. Ron Artest, and Peja as well.

I dont understand why Lebron and Carmelo get put onto people lists. I have seen Lebron dunk a lot, and pass the ball to Boozer. I have seen Carmelo be selfish, and shoot a poort percentage. But neither of these players have proven anything to me.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">Jermaine O'neal was #9 on his list.

I don't get why people put Lebron and Carmello on their lists, it's ridiculous. If you think about it, there are a lot of people at the pg position that I would put ahead of those two. Nearly all the top 5 pgs. Nash is a better player, so is Marbury, Baron Davis, possibly even Billups. Ron Artest, and Peja as well.

I dont understand why Lebron and Carmelo get put onto people lists. I have seen Lebron dunk a lot, and pass the ball to Boozer. I have seen Carmelo be selfish, and shoot a poort percentage. But neither of these players have proven anything to me.</div>

I don't see how you can think Steve Nash is a better player than LeBron James. Sure he was a big factor to the Mavs sucess, but LeBron has already established himself as one of the elite in the league. 20 6 and 6 in his rookie season, at age 19? Ridiculious. He was playing out of posistion too for a good portion of the season. When he finally played the 2-3, he thrived like a star. From his rookie season alone, he proved that he's among the elite 15 in the league. The scary thing is, he's only getting better.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jermaine O'neal was #9 on his list. </div>

Good catch. I was looking for 2 O'neal last names. My fault. Sorry.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">

Iron Shiek, Question:
I understand the up and down thumbs. What do the shrugging icons mean to you?

Are they players you just don't really like or dislike?
</div>

The shrug icons means that I haven't really decided whether or not I like their games or not. Garnett is extremely talented and one of the hardest working players in the league, but I'm not sold on him as an MVP. He should have won the award last year based on his numbers and the T'Wolves record, but he still has a lot of faults.

Garnett can beat you in a variety of ways, but down the stretch you need to have a signature move that no one can stop. Cassell was the Wolves go to player late in games b/c Garnett really seemed to tighten up.

Also, I think that he has a little punk in his heart considering his reaction (or lack there of) to Peeler forearm shot to the jar. It's one thing not to retaliate, it's another thing to look like you don't want anything to do with retaliating. Then to come back the next day talking about loading up clips and ready to go to war made me look at Garnett like he was a clown. Garnett bullies the people that he knows he can bully.

I really do like the way he plays and I think that he has a lot of charisma but I can't envision him ever winning a championship. He's a type of player when he gets the ball down the stretch that you hope can get you a big basket. To be great you have to expect him to get you that bucket. That's why I'm undecided on him.

I'm really impressed by LeBron's poise in games and his athletic ability. I think that he is the best athlete in the league in terms of speed, length, and explosiveness (especially off of one foot). He has also shown the ability to pick up things quickly and his skills are continuously improving.

What I don't like about him is that he needs a screen to be effective on the perimeter, he is 6'8" 240 and never posts up, he can't consistently beat his man off of the dribble (doesn't have great handle), he doesn't attack the rim in traffic like he could (how many times did he dunk on someone last year), and despite how he appears to the media he is still immature.

People talk all the time about his court vision but more often than not I see LeBron take low percentage shots before I see him really create for his teammates. I think that he will be a special player but I don't think that he will change the game. I almost didn't put him on my list but he is capable of doing things that could make him the best guard in the league. So I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Carmelo is a player that really understands how to score and how to get others involved when he receives a lot of attention. People think that he is selfish but as a small forward you are supposed to look for your offense first. Outside of maybe Ron Artest there isn't a player in the league that can consistently contain Anthony. He takes high percentage shots and as he matures he will shoot a higher percentage. Remember he led his team to a championship as a freshman in college and then turned around and led the Nuggets to the playoffs after they were 17-63 the year before. He is a winner and I honestly believe in Larry Brown would have played him big minutes in the Olympics that the U.S. would have won the gold.

I don't really like my list b/c there are so many players on it that I think are overrated. The only reason why I have some of those players ranked so high was to give my list credibility. It it were up to me I would have some of my journeyman right in there.

My question to you hagrid is why are you down on Jim O'Brien? Considering what he had to work w/ I thought that he did an excellent job in Boston. I just recently went to hear him speak at a coaching clinic and I left the clinic extremely impressed by him.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My question to you hagrid is why are you down on Jim O'Brien? Considering what he had to work w/ I thought that he did an excellent job in Boston.</div>

Well, that's a fair question.

There's more to OB than win/losses with the C's. People put him up on a pedestal because the team got the the ECF under him, after struggling the years before.

The problem is, the coaching wasn't his. The defensive presence that the team developed was the brainchild of Dick Harter. OB's contribution: Fronting the post, which even Harter disagreed with, as a fundamental flaw. The rest of it was just extreme conditioning so they could play defense all game and an above average press, which forced turnouvers.

The offense, was 2 guys: AW and PP. OB's idea of coaching was to tell those 2 guys they should be looking to score on every possession and let them account for over 50% of the teams offense over his coaching tenure. Come the playoffs, that offensive strategy was shown for what it was and the Nets embarrassed the C's the second year. Because none of the surrounding players were developed, the team had no chance in the larger scope of things.

If you had to endure watching the games, you would have seen constant fundamental lackings that were never corrected. Over pursuit, no weak side help, FRONTING THE POST (a personal peeve of mine), bad fouling, over handling the ball, etc, etc.

In post game interviews, he wasn't nearly as eliquent and intelligent as he probably was at the camp/clinic you attended. His reasoning was usually flawed for the decisions he was called on by the press. His player rotations and situational decision making were often the source of confoundment and migraines among the Celtic Nation. They rarely made sense.

Add to all that, the trades and drafts that happened during his tenure, which he asked for, which Wallace should have known better than to pull the trigger on, which usually ended up mortgaging the future. (aka: JJ et al for Rogers and Delk)

While we're talking about drafts, lets also note OB's complete and total failure to develop young players, unless forced to by injury (aka:Bremmer). His devotion to the "veterans" were often a source of frustration in the aformentioned player rotations, etc.

I could probably talk about more, but I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.

Good luck to OB in Philly. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. Regardless, I'm glad he's gone from Boston.

 

^I agree with every last word.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post"> <u>1.)</u>Who above Iverson on my list is a worse defensive player than AI? Nowitzki? Sure, but he can grab boards.

<u>2.)</u>Your basing all of this on last season on T-Mac. What about the other seasons where he brought his teams to the playoffs? The fact is the guy is still better than AI. He can play defense, guard 3 posistions, kill anyone inside or outside and can score 62 points on ya. Put a poll up if you want or check up other message boards. The only people that think Allen Iverson is a better player than Tracy McGrady are AI Lovers.




<u>3.)</u>I'm sorry, I never knew that you could predict the future. AI Has a body of 38 year old, and Kidd and Shaq have bodies and health of players in their early 30's.



<u>4.)</u>Once again, I never knew you could predict the future. If you're gonna say Shaq will be on the bench with a hurt toe, then you can just say that AI is gonna be out with a broken body. The guy has been backed up for the past 8 years, and it is starting to take a toll on him, as he is now approaching is 9th year in the L and 30 years of age.

<u>5.)</u>Shaquille O'Neal can ball still. You saw how he raped the Pistons, Wolves, Spurs and Rockets last year in the playoffs. I didn't see Paul Pierce or anyone else do that?



<u>6.)</u>Im sorry doctor, I never knew all of this. Do you even know who Jason Kidd is? The guy is triple double in waiting. He's the QB of each team he plays on. When he comes back from injury in December, I guarantee you that this guy will be a top 10 player in the NBA.

<u>7.)</u>I'm seeing a trend in all the player you're bashing. Every single statement you make is about them being hurt. Give me a break kid, watch em when they can ball and you would think twice before you open up your mouth like this.



<u>8.)</u>You're telling me to think before I run my mouth? Listen. I can understand you go on telling me that Kidd is not gonna be around much longer and that Shaq will continuesly be hurt...But you're not helping yourself at all by saying AI is a top 5 player when his body is dust at 29. He's more injury prone than them two, and when he plays games with injuries, he's only killing his team.



<u>9.)</u>Come back of the year right there. </div>

hahaha I forgot about this....Here we go again

<u>1.)</u> Does it matter if Dirk can grab boards? Who cares! Thats like me sayin " Iverson dishes more assists yea yea o yea Iverson is better"....Not a good statement because your basing it all on Stats on www.nba.com

<u>2.)</u> Banks you think Tmac is better than Kobe too. Why does everybody think this guy is great. Wow he scored 62 points with the next best player on his team being Tyronn Lue...YAY! Again your basing all of this on stats....thats not what you base it on. What about the time Iverson took his team to the Finals and to the playoffs...your basing this all on last year...HAHA gimme a break. Wow Tmac can guard 3 positions...thats cool dude. Oh wow swell. Who cares?! Ron Artest can guard 3 positions too...does that make him the man...I dont think so. And saying "Tmac can kill anyone inside or outside"...Is your opinion and is also pretty much sayin Tmac can rebound and guard Shaq and Yao and Big Ben or that Tmac can rebound 10 rpg....think before you speak because Tmac cant even rebound that much UNLESS hes on a team by himself like he has been. Ive seen alot of posts saying Tmac will go down in points next year...why?...because hes actually got some pretty good players on his team besides Tyronn Lue. TMAC FOR MVP!

<u>3.)</u> Im not trying to predict the future...stop being stupid. Iverson...has the body of a 38 year old? So does that mean Iverson will retire before Shaq and Kidd? Hahaha NO...so your wrong there because Shaq will be retiring either next year or the year after that due to the fact that he might hurt his toe or that he wont win a championship and get mad and say that hes too tired to play like he said before this years Olympics. At least Iverson played in the Olympics...where was Shaq? Well he was in Miami telling a lie to his fans that he will bring a championship to Miami. Jason Kidd might be the next Jamal Mashburn or Grant Hill...play for like 20 games and then get hurt again because when your almost 34 years old and hurt your knees theres a big chance you wont be recovered enough to play in the NBA...but who knows...all im sayin is...Iverson wont retire before either of the two because actually they both have the bodies of a 38 year old...not Iverson like you said.

<u>4.)</u> Actually Iverson is 29 years old...he hasnt even broke 30 yet....get your facts straight. He turns 30 in June I believe. Iverson is planning on being in the league all the way past the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Shaq wont be there by then and if you say he will be...your crazy. Next year if he gets hurt like he did last year he will be retiring very soon (Shaq). Iverson missed 34 games....the time had to come sometime didnt it? Next year you think he'll miss the same amount of games...haha I dont think so.

<u>5.)</u> LOL you think he actually raped the Pistons....If your talking about last year in the Finals...you are seriously mistaken because Shaq got destroyed by Ben Wallace. Didnt Big Ben average like almost 20 RPG in the Finals....the last game they played Ben grabbed 22 rebounds on Shaq while Shaq only grabbed 8. If you dont believe me go to nba.com and check it out..theyve still got the stats of the last Finals game they played. Tayshaun Prince even grabbed 10 rebounds in that game...more than Shaq hahahaha. You didnt see Paul Pierce do that because his team consist of only 2 people which only 1 is an allstar....Paul Pierce and Ricky Davis. Who else was on there? Nobody else!

<u>6.)</u> Yes I have to admit Jason Kidd is one of the best PGs in the NBA...but now that he has an injury...that might not be said for next year. Hey btw...How do you know Jason Kidd will come back from this injury...what if things dont work out? What if he becomes the next Jamal Mashburn or Grant Hill and becomes a bench warmer that used to benefit for his team? That is very possible with the injury he has now. Why do you think Nets wanted to trade him? Because they know thats a possibility.

<u>7.)</u> Well If your hurt it does matter doesnt it? If it doesnt matter...wow I sure didnt know that one

<u>8.)</u> Iverson does NOT have a bad body yet. Everybody is ASSUMING that Iverson is old. I didnt know 29 was an old age...thats still kinda young to me knowing that players like Karl Malone and Michael Jordan play until there 40 and still average good stats.

<u>9.)</u> That was just a comeback on what you said...I wouldnt have said that if you didnt already say something so retarded like that. :thumbsdow


Wow im glad I replied when I did....I forgot all about this...sorry about you thinking the arguement was over since I didnt reply for 2 days. Sorry Sorry Sorry but Im back again and ready.

 

[quote name='TheAnswerIsAi3']hahaha I forgot about this....Here we go again

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>1.)</u> Does it matter if Dirk can grab boards? Who cares! Thats like me sayin " Iverson dishes more assists yea yea o yea Iverson is better"....Not a good statement because your basing it all on Stats on www.nba.com </div>

Basically what you're saying is that Rebounds aren't relevent to how good a player is? So I guess Ben Wallace is only good for Rebounding. Iverson can get like 6 assists, but turns the ball over about 4 times. Give me a break. Dirk is much more versitile than AI and has a better inside out game, one of the best games in the league.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>2.)</u> Banks you think Tmac is better than Kobe too. Why does everybody think this guy is great. Wow he scored 62 points with the next best player on his team being Tyronn Lue...YAY! Again your basing all of this on stats....thats not what you base it on. What about the time Iverson took his team to the Finals and to the playoffs...your basing this all on last year...HAHA gimme a break. Wow Tmac can guard 3 positions...thats cool dude. Oh wow swell. Who cares?! Ron Artest can guard 3 positions too...does that make him the man...I dont think so. And saying "Tmac can kill anyone inside or outside"...Is your opinion and is also pretty much sayin Tmac can rebound and guard Shaq and Yao and Big Ben or that Tmac can rebound 10 rpg....think before you speak because Tmac cant even rebound that much UNLESS hes on a team by himself like he has been. Ive seen alot of posts saying Tmac will go down in points next year...why?...because hes actually got some pretty good players on his team besides Tyronn Lue. TMAC FOR MVP! </div>

Why is everything Stats to you? Tyronnue Lue is the next best player on his team? What's all this BS You're posting. I never knew Lue was better than Howard, Gooden, Giricek and Stevenson. I'm so sorry.

When did AI Take his teams to the finals? When did he win MVP? In 2001 Buddy. Things have changed ALOT since then. Back then he was a top 5 player and the MVP. Now, he's not reliable because his body has warn down, and his shooting has gotting horrendous. Stop living in the past kid.

You're also comparing Ron Artest to Tracy McGrady. Do these guys even compare? Tracy McGrady offensive game is so smooth and dominating on a consistant basis. He's been able to score around 30 PPG for the past 2 season, with apparently only Tyronne Lue on his team. If that's not impressive, I don't know what is.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>3.)</u> Im not trying to predict the future...stop being stupid. Iverson...has the body of a 38 year old? So does that mean Iverson will retire before Shaq and Kidd? Hahaha NO...so your wrong there because Shaq will be retiring either next year or the year after that due to the fact that he might hurt his toe or that he wont win a championship and get mad and say that hes too tired to play like he said before this years Olympics. At least Iverson played in the Olympics...where was Shaq? Well he was in Miami telling a lie to his fans that he will bring a championship to Miami. Jason Kidd might be the next Jamal Mashburn or Grant Hill...play for like 20 games and then get hurt again because when your almost 34 years old and hurt your knees theres a big chance you wont be recovered enough to play in the NBA...but who knows...all im sayin is...Iverson wont retire before either of the two because actually they both have the bodies of a 38 year old...not Iverson like you said.</div>

Also on Shaq and AI, you're twisting words. AI Is small. Shaq's big. AI's quickness is very key to his game, and since he's been banged up for 8 years and injured, its taking a toll on him, and it will, effect his game and his endurance. AI Won't be able to produce like he's doing now for much longer, where as Shaq can do so at a consistant pace until he's around 35. By the time AI's 35, his body will be too slow, and too banged up, taking a big part of his game away. You're making way too many unrealistic assumptions



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>4.)</u> Actually Iverson is 29 years old...he hasnt even broke 30 yet....get your facts straight. He turns 30 in June I believe. Iverson is planning on being in the league all the way past the 2008 Olympics in Beijing. Shaq wont be there by then and if you say he will be...your crazy. Next year if he gets hurt like he did last year he will be retiring very soon (Shaq). Iverson missed 34 games....the time had to come sometime didnt it? Next year you think he'll miss the same amount of games...haha I dont think so.</div>

Notice how I said, he's <u>approaching </u> his 9th year, and his 30th birthday.

Again your making too many assumptions. I'm really starting to think that you can predict the future. Notice how you said AI p<u>lans</u>, on past the 2008 olympics. Well many coaches plan on winning a championship, but nobody knows that that's gonna happen to them. AI's body is getting worse after each season, and come 2008, his body will be in much worse condition. He'll also be much slower, because it comes with age. His game will no doubt, be much different 4 years from now.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>5.)</u> LOL you think he actually raped the Pistons....If your talking about last year in the Finals...you are seriously mistaken because Shaq got destroyed by Ben Wallace. Didnt Big Ben average like almost 20 RPG in the Finals....the last game they played Ben grabbed 22 rebounds on Shaq while Shaq only grabbed 8. If you dont believe me go to nba.com and check it out..theyve still got the stats of the last Finals game they played. Tayshaun Prince even grabbed 10 rebounds in that game...more than Shaq hahahaha. You didnt see Paul Pierce do that because his team consist of only 2 people which only 1 is an allstar....Paul Pierce and Ricky Davis. Who else was on there? Nobody else!</div>

If you actually watched the Finals you would've seen that Shaq was tripled and doubled team everytime down court or when he had the ball and stil managed to convert 63% of his FG's. Also, if you reallly did watch it, you would of seen atleast 2 players boxing out Shaq almost everytime a shot went up because he was the only on the team that could rebound with Karl Malone injured.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>6.)</u> Yes I have to admit Jason Kidd is one of the best PGs in the NBA...but now that he has an injury...that might not be said for next year. Hey btw...How do you know Jason Kidd will come back from this injury...what if things dont work out? What if he becomes the next Jamal Mashburn or Grant Hill and becomes a bench warmer that used to benefit for his team? That is very possible with the injury he has now. Why do you think Nets wanted to trade him? Because they know thats a possibility.</div>

Jason Kidd's near future uncertain yet, but he will play next year. Chris Webbers injury was much worse than Kidds injury, and he still managed to play after the all-star break and put up good numbers.

Jason Kidd will not become a bench warmer. He's a point guard unlike the other players you listed. It's very hard to keep a competitive <u>leader</u> like him, that anchors a team on the bench. Even if he's not 100% healthy, if he's close to it, he'll play and he'll make a difference just like he did this past playoffs, getting the Nets past the first round and to a game 7 in the 2nd round while playing injured.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>7.)</u> Well If your hurt it does matter doesnt it? If it doesnt matter...wow I sure didnt know that one </div>

Next time, try making sense. I don't know where you got the idea that I think playing hurt doesn't matter...

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>8.)</u> Iverson does NOT have a bad body yet. Everybody is ASSUMING that Iverson is old. I didnt know 29 was an old age...thats still kinda young to me knowing that players like Karl Malone and Michael Jordan play until there 40 and still average good stats.</div>

Unlike Malone and MJ, at 29, AI has missed a good perecentage of his games. No doubt that he's a warrior, but a body of his size can only take so much of a beating. You have to realise that playing 82 games a year, with 41 MPG for 8 years is <u>alot</u> of beating. Karl Malone and MJ were bigger than him, and their competition were equal to their size or smaller, unlike AI, that's why they were able to play as effective for so long.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><u>9.)</u> That was just a comeback on what you said...I wouldnt have said that if you didnt already say something so retarded like that. :thumbsdow </div>

Maybe if you didn't sugar coat AI in every comment you say, I wouldn't get that idea.