Pietrus Wants To Stay With Golden State

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">there is no need to hurry Murphy out of town because of Diogu.</div>

Theres no need to hurry him out of town... if you don't want to upgrade our Center. Theres NO way I want Foyle starting next season. Murphy can help change that in a trade.

 

Who will upgrade the center position for the Warriors by dealing Murphy? I will trade Murphy for an upgrade at the 4 or 5 position. I am just saying Murphy shouldn't be dealt for nobody because of his contract or cap space. AlleyOop already said his post was a bit extreme so I guess I shouldn't carry it out longer than it should be. Now I guess one possibility that has gone around is Murphy for Magloire. Which would help the center position in scoring. But Magloire will probably ask for a bigger contract than the one Murphy has now, the following season. And is Magloire that much better than Murphy? Statwise Magloire is worse than Murphy in pretty much all of the stats besides blocking. The worst thing about Magloire on the Warriors is the fact that his FT percentage is so bad. Murphy is one of the few decent FT shooters on this team.

Now if the Warriors want to go Murphy for O'Neal(of course there'd need to be some fillers to make it even talent wise and cap wise) or for Garnett, then I'll be for that. But honestly I don't see a great replacement for Murphy available. We could try to get Randolph who is a head case and injury prone I believe who also has a much heftier contract as well.

Right now I am satisfied with Murphy and Diogu playing the PF spot. Just hopefully they are used better than last season.

 

I wouldn't compare Murphy to Magloire, they play different positions. We'd be upgrading Magloire over the utterly useless Foyle. Wouldn't you rather have:

PF: Ike
C: Magloire

than...

PF: Murphy
C: Foyle

?

 

I must admit that I have not seen Magloire play a lot. However the Bucks really didn't want to play Magloire in the playoffs, and that was against the Pistons. I wouldn't say his defense is that much greater than Murphy's, not to say that Murphy is a good defender, just that Magloire may not be a good defender either. Having Magloire at center and Ike at PF seems like it would be a terrible defensive front line. Adding Dunleavy, Richardson, and Davis, I'd have to imagine that the lineup would be one of the worst defensively in the NBA. On free throws this team would become the worst in the NBA with the addition of Magloire for Murphy. I say bypass the one year before Andris starts, and just make him the starter next season. I like the PF/C depth and talent of...

Andris/Taft/Foyle
Murphy/Diogu

heck and if you want Diogu to start, then so be it...Just having the duo of Murphy and Ike is good with me. Then maybe the Warriors draft someone like Sheldon Williams or Sene.

 

But we've seen what the Warriors have done with the line-up you mentioned already. And they've done HORRIBLE. It's time for a change, theres no way I want to see the same line-up as we had from last year. While Magloire's and Ike's defense may be questionable, they're in no way worse than Murphy on defense. Ike actually tries to block shots, how often do you see Murphy do that? Sure Foyle plays defense, but man, even his defense is getting worse from previous years and he just plain sucks. I'd rather have a center that can score and rebound than one that only plays mediocre D and does nothing else.

Keep in mind Magloire was an all-star before with Baron, he averaged 13.7/10.3 and 1.2 blocks with Baron in 03-04

 

Ok very valid arguements. I especially like the Baron/Magloire stat.

If the Warriors are really dedicated to win this next season, then maybe adding Magloire would an interesting idea, that is if Diogu can make a good smooth transition to starting PF.

My fears are about the transition that Diogu may go through to become a starting PF. His foul problems were pretty bad last year. Also what happens after next season? I suppose Magloire could just give cap relief, or maybe worse it leads to another big signing worse than Foyle's contract.

I could actually see the Warriors being better off doing a deal such as Murphy for Magloire, especially if the Warriors draft Shelden Williams. Shelden averaged three blocks, ten boards, and almost twenty points in college. Those are pretty good stats.

Magloire/Andris/Taft/Foyle
Ike/Shelden

As a common theme for this offseason; this offseason should be interesting. It could be something considered if not now then possibly before the trade deadline.

 

I'm not completely sour on the overall talent level of the team. If we had $5-10 million in cap-space I'd be thrilled with the roster we have now.

The only reason I'm talking trades is because, given the current contract situation, there's no way we can sign our young prospects, should one emerge as a star. Why do you think Pietrus will be going somewhere else when his contract expires? Because we already gave that cash to Dunleavy/Foyle/Fisher.

The only way we will have the flexibility to retain our other young prospects in the future is if we free up the space to do so. The only one that comes off the books is Cheaney in a year but even that is like 1.5 million, pocket change.

The Warriors are tied into Foyle for the next three years -- heavy money too, like $7-8 mil a year or so. That's like driving with a flat tire. And Murph? We're hitched to this guy for the next 5 years at $8 mil. The Warriors need to make a trade, IMO, to open up some cap space down the road. the good thing about Murphy for Magloire is that, if nothing else, Magloire comes off the books 4 years yearlier than Murphy. So in a year we'll have the choice on how to handle his contract; if he underachieves, let him walk and spend the cash on Beans. If he's a star, heck - sign him up again.

The Warriors must move either Murphy, Foyle, or Fisher. period.

 

Sadly... Fisher brings the best of both worlds on offense or defense. The problem, he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body and not the quick kind that can create his own shot for himself or for others. Shot selection = terrible. Making this guy a catch and shoot player paired up with a shooting guard that can play defense can make Fisher's value to this team awesome (and potentially even more awesome in the playoffs).

Murphy brings an above average offense game with his step back jumpers and catch and shoot elbow jumpers and can play some man-to-man D on slow center sized players. But, he is downright horrible playing help D or weakside D and he's not physical at all in certain parts of the game like Diogu or Foyle is (box-outs, fighting for position near the basket for offensive rebounds, taking a foul to save a layup, challenging a guy at the rim). If Murphy spent the majority of his time under the basket getting rebounds, or challenging more shots, his future on this team would look even better, but he's our best defensive rebounder when playing the zone (guys like Foyle/Ike don't rebound that well in a zone defense setting). One has to ponder why we even play the zone because it hurts our rebounding. But then it's guys like him/Dunleavy/Richardson that get killed off the dribble to make playing zone essential or we get burnt even more. We get better defensive starting players and start executing plays on offense, we'll make stops and score higher %'s. Running a play to a "T" is what gets you good looks at the basket. Our guys just float around the perimeter because it's their only strength and it's not a big strength. They also can't play defense.

Then I loathe Foyle. He's barely a ball player on offense and he's also kind of soft in the post on defense. So many guys get deep position on him right away and the only thing he can do is use his wingspan to try and block something. Well there's more to playing D than blocking shots. He's got none of the defensive know-how guys like Clif Robinson and Dale Davis have, but I guess Foyle seems like a great defensive player because he averages more blocks than those guys. I think Foyle's is an overrated defensive player, but we're just grateful to have somebody that can cover Murphy or some perimeter guy's weak defense. He's certainly a better option than the way Clif Robinson was being used at center.Clif was great at power forward with a real center like Erick Dampier in a contract year. So, I think we need to just scrap this whole power forward / center starting lineup we have... it just sucks. Dunleavy sucks too, but Mullin already locked him up so what can we do...

I just hope we can get some quality vet players like in 2003, but not so washed up or injury prone or players who play like Calbert Cheaney off the bench. Guys like Cheaney only play well when they start for some reason.

So here's to 2006 in hopes we actually have somebody that can step up for this team besides Jrich and actually has vet experience to stay on the floor. We also need a better starting five especially at the 3,4,5 positions... The last time we won a championship was when we had a HOF small forward and a HOF center. I think we could make the playoffs if we had a decent starting center and a guy that could play a bit better than Dunleavy has this season. Point guard I think we can live with as long as Fisher has somebody legit to go inside to. I don't think Biedrins has very many offensive moves or has the strength to seal off guys 30 lbs heavier than him.

But I guess back to Pietrus... I liked it better when he was paired up with Fisher off the bench. Guys like Pietrus and Biedrins kind of provide a lite lite lite lite version of what Shaq and Kobe did for him. But that's only if Biedrins has gotten inside the paint and sealed off somebody or if Pietrus doesn't turn the ball over by crashing into somebody for a charge like a dumbass. Pietrus has all the athletic ability and a decent handle to bust somebody up with the ball, but he's got no quick thinking skills. Plus, horrible free throw shooter. I think D-Miles can shoot better than him.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not completely sour on the overall talent level of the team. If we had $5-10 million in cap-space I'd be thrilled with the roster we have now.

The only reason I'm talking trades is because, given the current contract situation, there's no way we can sign our young prospects, should one emerge as a star. Why do you think Pietrus will be going somewhere else when his contract expires? Because we already gave that cash to Dunleavy/Foyle/Fisher.

The only way we will have the flexibility to retain our other young prospects in the future is if we free up the space to do so. The only one that comes off the books is Cheaney in a year but even that is like 1.5 million, pocket change.

The Warriors are tied into Foyle for the next three years -- heavy money too, like $7-8 mil a year or so. That's like driving with a flat tire. And Murph? We're hitched to this guy for the next 5 years at $8 mil. The Warriors need to make a trade, IMO, to open up some cap space down the road. the good thing about Murphy for Magloire is that, if nothing else, Magloire comes off the books 4 years yearlier than Murphy. So in a year we'll have the choice on how to handle his contract; if he underachieves, let him walk and spend the cash on Beans. If he's a star, heck - sign him up again.

The Warriors must move either Murphy, Foyle, or Fisher. period.</div>

I agree about the cap situation. I agree with your ideas as well. Though I would substitute Dunleavy with Troy Murphy in your last sentence. It's difficult to find a starting PF with the production and the contract that Murphy has(if you omit the players with rookie contracts still). However it is easier to find a more productive SF with a better contract than Dunleavy and his situation.

The problem with this team and more particularly this subject is that there is no identity for the team. Right now, any one player could be dealt and the team's idenity would still be confused and nonexistant. Really there seems to be two totally different teams within the roster with completely different identities as well. One is the starters of Baron, Jason, Murphy inc. And the other is Ellis, Diogu, Andris inc. From what I saw it seemed as if Baron Davis was the best at switching between the two, while Jason didn't seem to have the same effect, at least in my eyes it seemed that way.

In theory, or at least some theory, at this point Mike Montgomery ought to have the final say on who should be dealt for his roster. If this is the case, which it probably isn't, it is anybody's guess on what direction this team will go. Wait with this management it's still the same. It's never possible to understand which direction this roster will go in; and this has been the case for many years now.

But for the identity I would like to see this team obtain, I would like to see the Warriors kind of combine the seperation between the team's strategies where the bench seems to get the ball inside more with the starters who are good strong players while being able to play a little more perimeter. Because this roster was made to have opposite players at each position such as Murphy and Diogu at PF position, Jason and Mickael at the SG position, Foyle and Biedrins at the Center position, etc. Now it would be nice for the head coach to realize this and use it for the betterment of the team. And thus, maybe I am more satisfied and still waiting possibly to see this Ike/Murphy tag-team in action and producing at their max.

 

If we just look at our PF situation, I am somewhat satisfied with Murphy and Diogu for around 12 mils per year in average. And, if I wish to trade them, I would like to get something in value, instead of just dumping Murphy's salaries. However, our overall financial situation just won't allow to do so.

As I said before, none of our 6 big contracts do not expire in 3 years, and their contracts alone are enough to drive us to luxury tax territory. If we add minor contracts like rookie ones, Cohan may not want to pay that much in couple years by just standing pat. Worse, rookie contracts like Pietrus, Biedrins, Ellis and Taft will run out during 3 years span, and there is no way for us to resign them, unless we remove few of existing 6 contracts or Cohan decides to go wild with the payroll, which probably will not happen. That's why I would like to see us dumping Murphy and/or Fisher's contracts this offseason.

Ideally, we wish to dump Dunleavy or Foyle's contracts. However, exactly which sane GM will accept their contracts for expiring contracts? If any GM do so, he will probably stand a trial with Ken Lay and Skilling. So, next best thing we can do is to dump big but productive contracts like Murphy and Fisher's contracts when we can. Fortunately, we do have Diogu and Monta to fill their roles somewhat. I am not exactly optimistic on Diogu like many other fans, and I certainly recognize that starting Diogu can be a big gamble, which can go either way. However, if it means we can somewhat avoid from our coming financial crisis, I am all for taking that risk.

Of course, the best solution is packaging Murphy and/or Fisher's contract for superstar like Garnett or O'Neal. But, if that can't happen, we must do something about our salary, or things can be really ugly probably after 06-07 season...

 

Yeah, I have always hated how the Warriors have spent their cap. They always spend too many years and too much of the cap on players that really shouldn't be the successful situation. The Fisher and Foyle signings are definitley examples of this. The Warriors have decided to go with Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, and Troy Murphy as their future core. It's too bad that they used nonrookie contracts on players like Fisher and Foyle with long six year contracts at a considerable salary. It's just as if the core of Davis, Richardson, Murphy haven't had their shot for success with a good coach. And don't underestimate what a good coach can do, my main example being the LA Lakers before Phil Jackson but with Kobe and Shaq having trouble doing anything in the playoffs. Right now with Andris coming into his third season, Taft hopefully becoming healthier and able to play, along with another draft pick, I really want to see what this team can do. I don't want to see another Jamison trade for garbage.

Right now the Warriors have a strong back court with Baron-Jason with Fisher, Monta, and Pietrus as strong back ups who can guard the best guards from Parker to Kobe, and also score quite a bit. Then the front court is pretty strong with Ike, Murphy, Andris, Taft, Zarko, and Foyle along with a draft pick where a decent SF or another good big man could be available such as Shelden Williams or Saer Sene.

In the simplest way I am just tired of building "cores" together and then just seeing them get destroyed before they got their chance to really succeed and grow. It's like the Montreal Expos of the NBA.

 

I reread the comment again and I'm thinking that Pietrus is basically being political saying that he wants to go. He's pretty much saying that it's hard to get playing time here with JRich, but he likes the fans, city etc...

 

Of course he wants to stay -- any player would love to roll the dice and find out how much $ they can get from a team that gave Dunleavy, Foyle, and Fisher $40+ million contracts. Pietrus probably thinks he'll get six years 70 million. And with Mullin handing out the checks, I guess anythings possible.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course he wants to stay -- any player would love to roll the dice and find out how much $ they can get from a team that gave Dunleavy, Foyle, and Fisher $40+ million contracts. Pietrus probably thinks he'll get six years 70 million. And with Mullin handing out the checks, I guess anythings possible.</div>

I'm very curious in how the season would have turned out if Dunleavy wasn't given the extension. He's a key player that the warriors needed to win, but he sucked balls almost the entire season. Would having to work for a contract lit a fire under his pale butt? I wonder how many wins the Warriors would have gotten if he played well. Mullin basically sucked the motivation right out of Dunleavy by giving him that extension and squeezed any space out of our cap. Mullin is destroying this team with his stupid decisions. Great at drafting, awful at signing.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm very curious in how the season would have turned out if Dunleavy wasn't given the extension. He's a key player that the warriors needed to win, but he sucked balls almost the entire season. Would having to work for a contract lit a fire under his pale butt? I wonder how many wins the Warriors would have gotten if he played well. Mullin basically sucked the motivation right out of Dunleavy by giving him that extension and squeezed any space out of our cap. Mullin is destroying this team with his stupid decisions. Great at drafting, awful at signing.</div>

I definitely agree, but we should stay the course and give any GM 4 years worth of time to make moves. Otherwise... look for another Jamison type dump. Sadly... the 2003 team was pretty good, but the 2002 Jamison/Arenas/Richardson team would have been better.

 

If Mullin tossed a $9 mill per deal at Dunleavy...then goes and basically does a desperate salary dump of pietrus/Murphy/Baron..cause we can't afford whatever,won't go Lux tax,etc...then Mullin has to be fired,bye bye. I THINK his generous dealings with Dun imply he can + will pay Pietrus etc what they earn,won't take a loss in trades,backslide to shed $ on good players. Dumping Fish-Foyle-Dun obviously makes sense.

J.O' Neal,Garnett have salaries up in the $20-23 mill area. Like J Rich and Murph combined. If we don't move Foyle-Dun-Fish,there is Zero chance those guys are incoming. Magliore is an overhyped temp who scores 9 per and expects a max deal in a year. I don't deal a keeper just to win a few more games next year. My target is higher,I want keepers. Biedrens,Taft can = Mags before long,won't soon demand a $12 mill deal.

Murphy has been willing to adjust adapt,sacrafice,bulk up they ask,work on 3's they ask,play Monty's stupid gimmick pseudo-zone D they ask. So Murphy's talent and effort gets wasted and then he's the scapegoat?

Murphy can be a better CENTER than Magliore...but only with a real coach.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm very curious in how the season would have turned out if Dunleavy wasn't given the extension. He's a key player that the warriors needed to win, but he sucked balls almost the entire season. Would having to work for a contract lit a fire under his pale butt? I wonder how many wins the Warriors would have gotten if he played well. Mullin basically sucked the motivation right out of Dunleavy by giving him that extension and squeezed any space out of our cap. Mullin is destroying this team with his stupid decisions. Great at drafting, awful at signing.</div>
I think Dunleavy playing WELL might have added 10 wins. Dunleavy playing NEVER would have added 5 wins.

He had some strings where he was horrid.

 

The Dun deal does put Mullin in a spot if there is some not too distant limit on what the team will spend. I hear some say we gotta dump murphy's salary or can't keep Pietrus due to budget. Of course we can Bird rights way over the Lux Tax line...if Cohen gave the okay. If he did not then the Dunleavy deal was a fatal blunder. Based on last season,Dun earned less than Zarko. We blew a bunch of games giving Dun extra chances whenever he failed. Others never got that.